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The few times I have played versus IG with a Medusa it was never a problem to target the Medusa although I have heard of some shady players claiming they can see your units but you can't see the Medusa and we all know that's bull hockey.

Ailaros wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

I think another way to frame this discussion is to compare it to the vanquisher. Both of them are a single-shot BS3 gun that doesn't ignore cover, and that gets a +D6. Nobody takes the vanquisher, because its firepower is awful. Suddenly, though, when you put that vanquisher cannon on an AV12 chassis it becomes good?

But its not the same as the vanquisher, the vanquisher is AP2 whereas the bastion breacher (which is feel is an almost mandatory upgrade, but not the point of this thread) is AP1 another difference is the Vanquisher isnt blast so it has limited use against any squads and misses half the time. With the blast you can wipe out several marines/terminators/meganobs and against vehicles you have a much better chance of hitting. Plus the vanquisher is str 8 whereas the medusa is str 10. So really, its a completely different cannon.

djdutton wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

I think another way to frame this discussion is to compare it to the vanquisher. Both of them are a single-shot BS3 gun that doesn't ignore cover, and that gets a +D6. Nobody takes the vanquisher, because its firepower is awful. Suddenly, though, when you put that vanquisher cannon on an AV12 chassis it becomes good?

But its not the same as the vanquisher, the vanquisher is AP2 whereas the bastion breacher (which is feel is an almost mandatory upgrade, but not the point of this thread) is AP1 another difference is the Vanquisher isnt blast so it has limited use against any squads and misses half the time. With the blast you can wipe out several marines/terminators/meganobs and against vehicles you have a much better chance of hitting. Plus the vanquisher is str 8 whereas the medusa is str 10. So really, its a completely different cannon.

How/Why do people keep quoting things I didn't say?

@odorofdeath
Well, apparently we do. Sorry.

Ailaros wrote:I'm trying to figure out what makes them special, not what makes them worth fielding if you ignore math or pretend like you don't have other options.

I think another way to frame this discussion is to compare it to the vanquisher. Both of them are a single-shot BS3 gun that doesn't ignore cover, and that gets a +D6. Nobody takes the vanquisher, because its firepower is awful. Suddenly, though, when you put that vanquisher cannon on an AV12 chassis it becomes good?

Vanilla Medusas are comparable to LR Demolishers with an extra 12" range, but way more fragile (AV and OT). They are a trade off, not a unique flower.

Medusas with BBSs are somewhat special. Even more range, even better at popping vehicles. Much better than Vanquishers because vanquishers are nearly useless against anything other than vehichles, while Medusas with BBSs are good vs vehicles and heavy armor infantry.

In a large, high points game (2500 ish) I like to run a squad of medusas hiding behind 1-2 squads of hydra

xxxxxxxH xxxxxxxxxx Hx H
xxxH M M H OR H M M M H

Yes, the enemy often gets cover, but that is typical in a 5th ed game in general, not a failing of the medusas in particular.

On the flip side, you get cover as well to protect your AV 12 OT, and you get a 48" bubble of high threat vs AV 13-14 and 2+ armor infantry, also good vs T<6 with no EW

In the end, I think Manticores are a better general choice, but BBS Medusas shine reasonably well vs AV 14 as well as 2+ armor, while Demolishers and Vindicators can only do really well against one or the other.

Ah, wow this has gotten silly.

I have run Devil Dogs, Hellhounds with MM's, Paskquishers, Manticores, Regualr Russes, Demolishers, Basilisks and even a Griffon. I have yet to run a Medusa or Colossus/Bombard out of a lack of a cheap model.

That being said, the validity of a Medusa is facially obvious. An S10 AP1 with 2D6+ Armor Penetration small template is one of the best upgrades in the 40K universe. For the same strength and AP as a Railgun and the Armor Penetration power of a Meltagun, why is this an argument? The Manticore is fine at killing vehicles, just not as lethal per shot.

Throw camo netting or an ACC and the vehicle will stay extra killy for the match (I have done this with my Basilisk batteries, they don't die nearly as easy with the ACC and netting, they are expensive, but they eat lascannons and autocannons with regularity).