Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Reecius wrote:

@necronlord3
Nope, I (the eldar player) played no grey knights in the qualifiers. I wish I did. I played terrible match-ups. Wolves, venom spam/night shield dark eldar (worst match for me), leman russ ig (next worst match), and then tony kopach and his wolves round 4. It seriously was the hard route to the finals for me, not a single game that wasn't stupid hard. I played two grey knights in the finals.

Glad to hear it, no offense was intended ifit came off that way. I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Part of the problem people may have with the Grey Knights or Grey Knights' players is the sameness of the builds and the newness of their armies. When I go to tournaments it is to play some different people and armies, so having half the armies be the same or very similar is unappealing to me. I also prefer armies that have character, not Independent Characters or Special Characters, but panache, a uniqueness which is something the move to everyone playing 3 or 4 armies and a dozen different builds flies in the face of. Some hope for 6th Edition to rebalance things, but I think ultimately it comes down to why people play. I prefer people who play with their army because it is their personal army, not the folks who hop to whatever is trendy and most effective as deemed by the Internets or certain tournaments.

I can see the appeal of portability as I've flown to one of the old GW Grand Tournaments, long before Battlefoam existed. It seems there used to be more variety of armies and builds at those events than you see in this particular event. Personally I think the team tournament produces the cooler eye candy, we'll have to see if GW re-introduces tournaments in North America after 6th Edition comes out.

Thanks for the event coverage.

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

nkelsch wrote:
This is a really good point. As an ork player, I have been making my lists for events like NOVA and other tourneys based around 'how fast I can play it' vs 'how strong it is' and trying to find a middle ground.
.

I think something worth pointing out when discussing horde armies in tournaments is the time frame. I think that while making rounds longer might add horde armies to the meta game, it has a pair of negative effects. The first is that often times when playing a 'normal' army vs a horde army, a vast amount of game time is consumed by the horde player. Games are generally pretty boring for one player when his opponent is taking 2-3 times as long per turn as he is. The 2nd point is increasing round time from say, 2 hours to 3 will increase down time for the majority of players. Im someone who can finish a game in an hour with a 90 model nid army. If my opponent is playing of the same mentality, and we get done in 1.5 hours, that leaves another 1.5 hours to sit around and do nothing. Theres also the time consumption of setting aside 9 hours for game time, not including time between games and lunch, you can end up running 11 hours for a tournament, which is too much for too little playing.

Im not saying that horde shouldnt be viable for the meta, or restricted, but if you are going to play one of those armies you need to be able to play very fast.

@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

@Reecius.

Thanks for the prompt reply. Decent information that I need to know if I go next year and play in a team tournament.

Reecius wrote:@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

Would you be willing to post your list just for curiosities sake?

I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Both Reece and I were hoping for it, after our tied game in Vegas last year. Unfotunately he fell to Draigowing and I stumbled at the semi-final to Brad's knights.

On the plus side, I did avenge the Eldar by beating Draigo for the bronze

LValx wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

Oh no, not a bunch of chimeras, razors, and purifiers! If we are playing kill points, or sieze ground style objectives., it is a done deal.

It is funny, that the Grey Knight fanboyz say; I will just shoot Fateweaver down and than it is over. Yeah right. In all of my games against Grey Knights, Fateweaver has died a handful of times.
Guess what; it doesn't matter. A good Fatecrusher player wants you to think Fateweaver is the armies lynchpin, you go right on and keep believing that. The list simply can not do enough
damage to stop the tide of Daemons before they are destroyed.

Typical battle with Grey Knights is this:
1 - We setup game, Grey Knight player gets smug look on his face because I tell him I am playing Daemons.
2 - I pull out my Daemons, and he starts to look a bit worried. I do admit, it is a very intimidating army to look at.
3 - The Grey Knight player is typically wondering what the hell happened by the end of turn 3.

The local Draigo Wing tournament player won't play me anymore, unless he can tailor his list. He wants to use at least 3 instances of Dark Excommunication. This "Chester" list is child's play
compared to the WAC Grey Knight players I have destroyed with Fatecrusher.

wow, your my hero!

Just for humor rolled out 4 games of drago verse crushers and drago was 3-1, but im sure im not understanding it right.

Everyone who has played a Fatecrusher army knows that it is a strong build, but somebody like NoArmorSave coming into a thread and running his mouth about how he could beat up on these guys who actually went to an event and showed well there is BS. Take your trolling elsewhere NoArmorSave. If you want to critique a list there are better ways to do it other than by just saying, my list would beat yours.

I'd be happy to put up my TAC Draigowing list against your Fatecrusher list on Vassal if you'd like. And I'm no where near as good of a player as those guys you were talking about.

Phazael wrote:

winterman wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Phazael wrote:GK whining aside, the % of top 16 was pretty similar to the ratio of actual GK players at the event. Hardly an endictment of the book, but haters are going to hate. I am not suprised that the Coteaz list wound up being the one to go the distance, as it brings the very best in Razorspam and hard combat ability. Draigowing is a gimmick, Coteaz is not.

The ratio of GK players was 22% of the field. The ratio of top 16 was 44% GK. Not similar at all.

Last year orks were 12% of the field and 25% of the top 16. No out cry from folks saying orks are over powered even though the same ratio of attendee% vs top 16%.

Which is basically what I was (poorly) trying to say. I would be extremely interested in the % of Space Wolves and Guard entered compared against their presence in the top 16 the last couple years, as well. Still, its one event and the only thing that kind of suprises me is the lack of IG in the top 16, but that may have more to due with the scenarios and strict time limits. Plus playing an effecive guard army is a lot more mentally fatiguing than pushing a few paladins around for three days. Reece's brain had to be goo after three days of Footdar, though.

I have been saying it for a while now. Imperial Guard are falling to the wayside more and more. GK can give us hell, then Necrons can completely nix what we do best(shooting from range). I was not surprised to find myself standing alone again on day 2. Either way you wont see this king playing GK. I will stand by the 56th as long as they stand by me. Will try to get the bat reps started this week for those that follow.

Reecius wrote:@blasto
Thanks, broseph!

@phazael
Yeah, I was so wiped after all thise games. Plus we drank a ton and got up at 4;45am for the finals.

@necronlord3
Nope, I (the eldar player) played no grey knights in the qualifiers. I wish I did. I played terrible match-ups. Wolves, venom spam/night shield dark eldar (worst match for me), leman russ ig (next worst match), and then tony kopach and his wolves round 4. It seriously was the hard route to the finals for me, not a single game that wasn't stupid hard. I played two grey knights in the finals.

@adam
It cost me about $600 to go this year, from california. Maybe $700. Not that bad at all. And I was playing for fun, but for me adpeticon has become a trip mire about seeing friends and having a laugh than anything else. I always want to win it all, I just know that luck is so much a part of it that gettng too hung up on that part of it makes ths trip less fun.

@centurian99
Good to see you at adepticon!! It'll be good to have you around the forums again.

The trip cost me significantly less. Of course I split a big hotel/suite with 5 other people. Was 84 bucks for the weekend for the hotel. I drove there which ended up being around $200 roundtrip in gas. Besides that it was entree fee's and food. So not too bad if you know how to keep it on the cheap.

Reecius I wanted to face your army. We will have to get a game in sometime though I think my army would of been an ugly match-up for you it would still have been a good game. I might have to take my eldar to the next local event. Hopefully some of you guys can come out to the midwest massacre and try your luck. Also my camera captures digital time of photo's I take during my match's. My 5th round opponents game turn of 3 lasted just shy of an hour. No wonder I only saw 4 turns in the game.

helium42 wrote:Everyone who has played a Fatecrusher army knows that it is a strong build, but somebody like NoArmorSave coming into a thread and running his mouth about how he could beat up on these guys who actually went to an event and showed well there is BS. Take your trolling elsewhere NoArmorSave. If you want to critique a list there are better ways to do it other than by just saying, my list would beat yours.

I'd be happy to put up my TAC Draigowing list against your Fatecrusher list on Vassal if you'd like. And I'm no where near as good of a player as those guys you were talking about.

Edited - I will play nice.

Reecius wrote: and got up at 4;45am for the finals.

I have to admit, the game length is a major reason I don't go to tournaments, be it 40k or fantasy, I run orks/orcs (respectively) and in both cases, I usually have so much going on it's a miracle if my turns make it to 5-7. Sometimes this has helped, others it's hindered. Point being I don't like having game length determine the winner, it just leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

That being said, I might head on up for golden throne since 1500 point games should be able to be played in a reasonable amount of time.

stormboy97 wrote:wow, your my hero!

Just for humor rolled out 4 games of drago verse crushers and drago was 3-1, but im sure im not understanding it right.

Noarmorsave came on the paladins thread and said how he would crush my paladins.

I wish instead of being an internet tough guy he would go to a large tournament and prove it.

Reecius wrote:@necronlord3
Yeah, eldar are not easy to play like they were last edition. It takes a lot of patience and practice.

Thanks for rooting for me, thag is cool and very appreciated!

What exactly is your footdar list, and how did you beat Mech Guard and Mech DE?

Gk and chaos daemons: the players hate each other just as much as the fluff lol. I thought blood of kittens wa posting a troll when I saw a pink monolith but the army was PINK! Congrats man, pink is apparently a lucky color.

The Everliving wrote:

I have a friend struggling with his Eldar in the game right now and was excited to watch your game live, and was rooting for an Eldar/Necron final battle!

Both Reece and I were hoping for it, after our tied game in Vegas last year. Unfotunately he fell to Draigowing and I stumbled at the semi-final to Brad's knights.

On the plus side, I did avenge the Eldar by beating Draigo for the bronze

You did.. my dice did not want to play that game while yours were on fire!

It was a pleasant game and all in all not a terrible way to close out the tournament.

All of the games I played on day two were against top notch people I would like to be able to play all the time.

Hi

Regarding the Ork player who dropped - he chose to play in the fantasy doubles rather than abandon his partner on Sunday.

If another member of our crew (the Sons of Shatner, Sons of Scotty, and the Eh-Team) had made the top 16, we would have adjusted our pairings accordingly. Unfortunately, our next strongest candidate (from a list strength & play skill perspective) didn't manage to make it...

Cheers,
Nate

Nate - Gotta give him props for that. Had I been in a similar situation, I would like to think I would have done the same.

(Come to think of it, I was almost faced with that situation for the same reason - if both Sparks and I had qualified, one of us would have needed to drop in order to run the Gladiator).

Knowing how the internet can get, let me reiterate what Nate said above. Ricky's decision to not participate in the Warhammer 40K Championships Finals was perfectly legit and handled without incident. He was kind enough to let us know first thing on Saturday, so we had plenty of time to inform our 1st alternate, Tim Gorham.

Of course it should also be noted that Ricky was a repeat qualifier and played in the 2011 finals also. It would have been great to see him have a 2nd chance at total victory and put one more non-GK army on the list. That said, the way the seeding worked from Friday, his first game would have been against the only other Ork player, Doug Johnson. Johnson vs. Johnson. Ork vs. Ork. One would have been knocked out in the first finals game.

pretre wrote:I'm so going to go start a 'Orks are the most overpowered codex GW has put out in the last decade' thread.

You could try but it would just get locked by the mods, unlike the GK are OP thread which was threadnomancied back into exist but still didn't get a lock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NoArmorSave wrote:

LValx wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

moosifer wrote:INAT FAQ says gloom prism cancels out all the GK psychic shinanegans. Cocheese should have died in first round of combat with wraiths and Brad consolidate moved 2" when he rolled a 1. This is game TEN from 4 days. It is brutal, and I bet their minds are mush by now.

BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times....

"BTW Fatecrusher has gone up against those necrons and died horribly quiet a few times.... "

No dude. Fatecrusher is a bad matchup for Necrons, as are most other armies. Their only hope is to spam Triarch
Stalkers and try to hold the Bloodcrushers up. Most Necron players don't run them because the models aren't available.

I looked at Chester's Grey Knight list. It would be such a bloody table against my Fatecrusher Daemons. His only hope would
be to try to screen me out with massed Razorbacks and Chimeras when playing objectives. I would love to play him with that list.

Grey Knights have only 2 counters to a well run Fatecrusher list: warp quake spam and to a lesser extent dark excommunication spam.
A serious TAC Grey Knight list has neither.

Man, this guy right here is so right!
That GK player would have totally lost to your fatecrusher list, HAHA.
Between the dreads, razors, chimeras and purifiers he could easily drop fateweaver in one turn. Its doubtful you will be in a position to charge turn 2, how do you plan on demeching him again? And remember that he has 6 troops choices and 10 vehicles. Good luck. The dreads will tie up bloodcrushers all game if they dont have a skulltaker. Since you can't conceivably take two of him, one squad will get tied up all game. You completely overestimate the ability of your list, or maybe you just spend to much time playing against children. Fatecrusher daemons have an inherent weakness to armies that can put out a lot of shots of quality at around 24". The two purifier squads firing at full effect alone would average about, 20 wounds on him. So conceivably in one turn the GK player could both kill fateweaver and begin to whittle down the crushers.

Oh no, not a bunch of chimeras, razors, and purifiers! If we are playing kill points, or sieze ground style objectives., it is a done deal.

It is funny, that the Grey Knight fanboyz say; I will just shoot Fateweaver down and than it is over. Yeah right. In all of my games against Grey Knights, Fateweaver has died a handful of times.
Guess what; it doesn't matter. A good Fatecrusher player wants you to think Fateweaver is the armies lynchpin, you go right on and keep believing that. The list simply can not do enough
damage to stop the tide of Daemons before they are destroyed.

Typical battle with Grey Knights is this:
1 - We setup game, Grey Knight player gets smug look on his face because I tell him I am playing Daemons.
2 - I pull out my Daemons, and he starts to look a bit worried. I do admit, it is a very intimidating army to look at.
3 - The Grey Knight player is typically wondering what the hell happened by the end of turn 3.

The local Draigo Wing tournament player won't play me anymore, unless he can tailor his list. He wants to use at least 3 instances of Dark Excommunication. This "Chester" list is child's play
compared to the WAC Grey Knight players I have destroyed with Fatecrusher.

Cool story bro.

WAC is WAAC by the way. How many of these WAAC GK players destroyed by your fatecrusher occurred at a major GT? I have lost to, beaten, and tied Fatecrusher with non-tailored GK, what does that mean? Nothing, just like your anecdotal evidence.

Nice to know about Ricky. Mad props for making it in to the Top 16 and even madder props for not abandoning his friends.

@Tomb King
Your army was the only one in the finals I wanted nothing to do with! Everyone else there I could beat on a level playing field, but IG is rough. I beat them in the prelims because I got first turn (only game all tournament I went first) and I know exactly what has to happen for me to win that game, and it happened. A little bad luck in that match-up and my army can easily get smoked.

@The Everling
We would have played too had Ricky not dropped (and that is really selfless of him, I don't think I would have done the same honestly. That is why I don't plan events for Sunday, I would rather have a free day Sunday if I don't make the finals). Eldar vs. Crons would have been an awesome game, and fits the fluff, too! We both new our game at the ToS would be a tie due to no terrain so it was a bit of an anti-climactic battle. This time, with no ties allowed, it would have been good fun!

And Blood Angel must have used up all his luck on me! Haha, that was so frustrating watching clutch roll after clutch roll go Paul's way, but them there's the breaks.

@Smitty/NecronLord3

Yeah, I'll post my list. It isn't what I wanted to bring, but what I had painted. We've been so busy at the shop, I didn't have time to finish my army but it's all good, I still did quite well with what I had.

Eldrad
Avatar
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Dires x 10
Guardians x 10, Shuriken Cannon
Jet Bikes x 3

Harlies x 10, Kisses, Shadowseer
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike, Crack Shot
Fire Dragons x 5, Exarch, Pike Crack Shot

Wraithlord, Lance, EML
Wriathlord, Lance, EML
War Walkers x 3, Scatter Laser x 6

Platuan4th wrote:

Nice to know about Ricky. Mad props for making it in to the Top 16 and even madder props for not abandoning his friends.

Ricky is a great person. He came in 3rd last year. He only lost was to Tony. He took out a lot of good players this year to make it to the top 16.

and the interesting thing about Ricky is, the year before he took out Brad Chester the guy that won it this year.

Ricky is not only a good player, but a nice guy (which should go without saying since he is Canadian).

To sum up our game, he started out by making the first 8 obscured rolls for his Kans/Battlewagon.

So cut to turn 5 he had a lot of them still left hanging around the objectives so I had 2 choices:

#1. I could run on to the objectives and win by kill points, but then I would get counter assaulted and that would mean that I would struggle to win turns 6 and 7.

Or

#2. Shot him on turn #5, cripple his troops and be in great shape to win turn #6 and #7.

One choice I had a 33% chance of winning and the other I had a 66% chance.

I took option #2 and he rolled a ‘2’ to end the game and that quickly I was out of the running.

Hi Blackmoor

LOL - Since Ricky doesn't post here (or anywhere) - his exact quote to me from your game afterword was "It was a tight game... but it needed to end. I had it, but I wouldn't have kept it."

Cheers,
Nate

Ricky and Nate are awesome guys, met them last year at daboyz team tourney and had a blast tieing out nate with his orks. Really nice guys, glad to see Ricky make it that far.