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Until gangs manage this, dogma cares not:

Haha.. another epic film.

My old man gave me that on VHS and said "watch this lads its fething quality!" when I was about 15 and me and my know it all teenage mates went "pah, its some old gak, it will suck!"

Im glad we watched it.

Matt,
For sheer bad assery, check out "Once were Warriors" and it's sequal, "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted."

The game is pretty sweet too.

On the PS2 yeah? Me and (same mate!) finished it a few years ago.. we particularly liked throwing bricks at the pistol wielding guy in a wheelchair.

Bromsy wrote:
And I never had much trouble being understood anywhere in Europe with my awesome ability to always repeat myself slower and louder.



Pointing in a more and more rigorous manner helps too.

hahahaha, thats great stuff lads

Kovnik Obama wrote:Also, Rockerbikie, gotta love the way you capitalize Starving Homeless Australians... that actually sound like a prettty mean gang

Look at the Aborginal Living Conditions in Northern Territory.

What am I supposed to look at, and more important, how do how interpret what I see? Aboriginal people everywhere in the world are facing harsh situations ; this is not an argument against multiculturalism. There are certainly arguments against it that can be founded on exemples of aboriginal problems ; like how aboriginals would be better off if they integrated fully in their respective modern Nations. Remains to see if those arguments invalidate the entire concept of a multiculture, or if they are not more misleading than anything ; I'd argue that Reserve Laws go entirely against the spirit of multiculturalism (which is the value of alterity) as they alienate one culture from another.

Kovnik Obama wrote:What am I supposed to look at, and more important, how do how interpret what I see? Aboriginal people everywhere in the world are facing harsh situations ; this is not an argument against multiculturalism. There are certainly arguments against it that can be founded on exemples of aboriginal problems ; like how aboriginals would be better off if they integrated fully in their respective modern Nations. Remains to see if those arguments invalidate the entire concept of a multiculture, or if they are not more misleading than anything ; I'd argue that Reserve Laws go entirely against the spirit of multiculturalism (which is the value of alterity) as they alienate one culture from another.

When someone says I should or my people should assimilate (I am a first nations person) to me it says that my culture has no value to you. People asking for assimilation only see the value of their own culture or see their culture as being superior. The reserves are ours as a consolation prize for surviving a failed genocide, our rights regularly get chipped away at the governments whim in the name of capitalism. I assure you any form of "compensation" someone may claim we may get is insufficient in our eyes as we continually see our lands and rights generate others wealth through dispossession of our resources and land.

I do not think reserves or reservations (in the states) alienate one culture from another. People can come and go as they please and reserves are not native only. Ownership of land can be an issue for non natives living on rez but people are welcome to live there if they don't mind leasing a plot for 99 years or other stipulations. Reserves protect our culture by stemming the flow of imposing culture keeping it from washing our culture away thus protecting multiculturalism by helping keep our identity. It is not a fence you cannot cross, but you wouldn't know that by how many people goto reservations or even now much about them.

First, I wasn't offering my rationale against Reserves, or said that the Natives should be assimilated. I said that saying : ''Look at them poor aboriginals'' wasn't a argument against multiculturalism, or an argument at all. Saying 'their culture causes them to be in those conditions, so they would be better off assimilated'', that's an argument, since theres implications that can be challenged against the facts of life. I don't like that argument. But I don't think it's even opposable to multiculturalism, because no assimilation is implied by multiculturalism, only alterity.

Second ;

I do not think reserves or reservations (in the states) alienate one culture from another.

The debate is still going on between the Quebec elders weither or not they should adopt the 'twin-path' or the 'crossed-path'. This is essentially wondering if complete isolationnism isn't better to the state of tutel the Native Nations are currently under. There is not greater alienation then isolationnism ; it's the social equivalent of autism.

It is not a fence you cannot cross, but you wouldn't know that by how many people goto reservations or even now much about them.

I'm Metis. My avatar is a pic of my ascendant, Ambroise-Didyme Lépine, General of Louis Riel during the Red River Rebellion. I've lived next to both the best and the worst reserves in Canada (Stadaconé in QC and that wasteland north of Red-Deer, Ab). Intuitively, I'd say that it is a deficient system. But that's just intuitions, and I do not pretend to offer any suggestions...

J-Roc77 wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:What am I supposed to look at, and more important, how do how interpret what I see? Aboriginal people everywhere in the world are facing harsh situations ; this is not an argument against multiculturalism. There are certainly arguments against it that can be founded on exemples of aboriginal problems ; like how aboriginals would be better off if they integrated fully in their respective modern Nations. Remains to see if those arguments invalidate the entire concept of a multiculture, or if they are not more misleading than anything ; I'd argue that Reserve Laws go entirely against the spirit of multiculturalism (which is the value of alterity) as they alienate one culture from another.

When someone says I should or my people should assimilate (I am a first nations person) to me it says that my culture has no value to you. People asking for assimilation only see the value of their own culture or see their culture as being superior. The reserves are ours as a consolation prize for surviving a failed genocide, our rights regularly get chipped away at the governments whim in the name of capitalism. I assure you any form of "compensation" someone may claim we may get is insufficient in our eyes as we continually see our lands and rights generate others wealth through dispossession of our resources and land.

I do not think reserves or reservations (in the states) alienate one culture from another. People can come and go as they please and reserves are not native only. Ownership of land can be an issue for non natives living on rez but people are welcome to live there if they don't mind leasing a plot for 99 years or other stipulations. Reserves protect our culture by stemming the flow of imposing culture keeping it from washing our culture away thus protecting multiculturalism by helping keep our identity. It is not a fence you cannot cross, but you wouldn't know that by how many people goto reservations or even now much about them.

If my ancestors had the same opinions I'd currently be knee-deep in gak and dying of tuberculosis.
I hope your kids appreciate the fact that you've consciously chosen to depreciate their life chances.

Joey wrote:

J-Roc77 wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:What am I supposed to look at, and more important, how do how interpret what I see? Aboriginal people everywhere in the world are facing harsh situations ; this is not an argument against multiculturalism. There are certainly arguments against it that can be founded on exemples of aboriginal problems ; like how aboriginals would be better off if they integrated fully in their respective modern Nations. Remains to see if those arguments invalidate the entire concept of a multiculture, or if they are not more misleading than anything ; I'd argue that Reserve Laws go entirely against the spirit of multiculturalism (which is the value of alterity) as they alienate one culture from another.

When someone says I should or my people should assimilate (I am a first nations person) to me it says that my culture has no value to you. People asking for assimilation only see the value of their own culture or see their culture as being superior. The reserves are ours as a consolation prize for surviving a failed genocide, our rights regularly get chipped away at the governments whim in the name of capitalism. I assure you any form of "compensation" someone may claim we may get is insufficient in our eyes as we continually see our lands and rights generate others wealth through dispossession of our resources and land.

I do not think reserves or reservations (in the states) alienate one culture from another. People can come and go as they please and reserves are not native only. Ownership of land can be an issue for non natives living on rez but people are welcome to live there if they don't mind leasing a plot for 99 years or other stipulations. Reserves protect our culture by stemming the flow of imposing culture keeping it from washing our culture away thus protecting multiculturalism by helping keep our identity. It is not a fence you cannot cross, but you wouldn't know that by how many people goto reservations or even now much about them.

If my ancestors had the same opinions I'd currently be knee-deep in gak and dying of tuberculosis.
I hope your kids appreciate the fact that you've consciously chosen to depreciate their life chances.

Why do you assume I depreciate my families life chances? Just how do you think I live?

I think there is a gap between your perception and reality.

I own 2 cars, a house with an orchard, have a wife, kid, dog and cat. I goto work/college and pay my taxes. My father in law is a native chaplain at several prisons and sells artwork, my brother in law is a professional artist the other works in retail, my wife is a grad student at university where she teaches english. Much of my rural family grow food even though they work just because it is good to do. Some work for the tribe in elder assistance programs as they have nursing degrees, or archaeology helping preserve historical sites (our own, we still have some left). Many of my cousins attend college one even at Marquette. We attend powwows, and religious events, my in-laws sing, drum, sweat, pray, sell native artwork and dance all on top of having jobs. My cousins work in forestry or fire and some even in the armed forces, some do not work for tribes as they live off reservation where other job options are. Most of us hunt or fish in tribal lands as part of tradition (for funerals etc) or just because we hunt and fish. Amazingly my family can have jobs go to towns, get vaccinations, vote in elections and still be traditional.

Understand I live on a reservation where there are jobs, other reservations may not be so lucky with their circumstances. So lets say the unlucky assimilate, will jobs magically appear on their lands? Just what does assimilation mean? Who's god should we pray to? Or we should stop dancing and drumming? Will any of that correct the the high poverty rate among tribes? I quit dancing and my poverty cleared right up!

So how much more would you like us to assimilate and which part do I depreciate my families chances in life?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kovnik Obama wrote:First, I wasn't offering my rationale against Reserves, or said that the Natives should be assimilated. I said that saying : ''Look at them poor aboriginals'' wasn't a argument against multiculturalism, or an argument at all. Saying 'their culture causes them to be in those conditions, so they would be better off assimilated'', that's an argument, since theres implications that can be challenged against the facts of life. I don't like that argument. But I don't think it's even opposable to multiculturalism, because no assimilation is implied by multiculturalism, only alterity.

Second ;

I do not think reserves or reservations (in the states) alienate one culture from another.

The debate is still going on between the Quebec elders weither or not they should adopt the 'twin-path' or the 'crossed-path'. This is essentially wondering if complete isolationnism isn't better to the state of tutel the Native Nations are currently under. There is not greater alienation then isolationnism ; it's the social equivalent of autism.

It is not a fence you cannot cross, but you wouldn't know that by how many people goto reservations or even now much about them.

I'm Metis. My avatar is a pic of my ascendant, Ambroise-Didyme Lépine, General of Louis Riel during the Red River Rebellion. I've lived next to both the best and the worst reserves in Canada (Stadaconé in QC and that wasteland north of Red-Deer, Ab). Intuitively, I'd say that it is a deficient system. But that's just intuitions, and I do not pretend to offer any suggestions...

Sorry missed your post I just saw Joey's. I apologize I was not being clear, I was actually addressing the portion where you just name off that argument and my thoughts on it. I didn't mean for it to sound as if I directed it at you. Although I do see my use of the word "you" in my response to be confusing now!

The native system of reservations was not (is not) beneficial for both parties I agree. I also agree that isolationism is not the answer, or is it even an option in my opinion. They are in Quebec not exactly ideal for isolation, and if it were I would still be against it.

Bromsy wrote:

d-usa wrote:Yeah, racism isn't cool

I'd promote diversity with that chick any day.

Agreed. Personal preference is that white women are better looking, but when a total babe comes around of any other color/background, she's about 20% sexier.

I don't know. I think that eventually, the whole tribal hatred and stuff will just break down. I mean, some parts of the world are still very, very racist , (ever been to small town Oklahoma as a long-haired redhead with a Hispanic dad? Not fun) But other areas seem to be becoming more and more multicultural and mixed. I mean, take the area I live in, which is in SO Cal, just outside of LA. We have pretty much every race you can think of, and we all coexist pretty well. I mean, for god sakes, my best friends are Chinese/Cambodian, Japanese/Puerto RIcan, A black guy who has no idea where he's from, and I'm an Irish-French-Polish-Austrian Mexican. (Real, Nauhautl Mexican too,)