Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Frazzled wrote:You mean like "Hola!" yea already there. In fact I'm fully versed in all phrases needed to get my face slapped in Spanish.

This is my aspiration:

Someone who speaks three languages? Tri-Lingual
Someone who speaks two languages? Bi-Lingual
Someone who speaks one language? American!

When my Great-Grandfather came to the US from Sicily in the 1890's, he did not speak a word of English. When he died in 1948, he spoke three phrases of English, and two of them were bad phrases.

I grew up speaking English. In High School I took Italian, and in college I took Italian, German and Spanish. I am fluent in none of them, but can speak enough to get by if necessary. Is it too much to ask an immigrant to learn English in America? Yes and No. My Great-Grand lived in Little Italy in New York, and then when he moved to Detroit, he lived in the Italian section of the city. He surrounded himself with "his" people. His children on the other hand went to American schools, got American jobs, and Etc., including the two children who were born in Palermo.

My point? In time you acclimate to the culture you live in, giving some of your culture back, and generation to generation the world slowly changes.

d-usa wrote:Yeah, racism isn't cool

I'd promote diversity with that chick any day.

And I never had much trouble being understood anywhere in Europe with my awesome ability to always repeat myself slower and louder.

Bromsy wrote:
And I never had much trouble being understood anywhere in Europe with my awesome ability to always repeat myself slower and louder.

Pointing in a more and more rigorous manner helps too.

dæl wrote:

Bromsy wrote:
And I never had much trouble being understood anywhere in Europe with my awesome ability to always repeat myself slower and louder.

Pointing in a more and more rigorous manner helps too.

Pointing seems like such a gallic thing to do. I have been known to shake my fist though.

look in my family i have 12 cousin off which 5 could be calssified as minorities by a rcist person look from the outside.
4 of them are half-mexican-american-half germano french and they are just like the rest of us..

My other cousin is actually interesting she's half cherokee as are her brother and sister.
she has brown skin brown hair.
her sister has pale white skin black hair.
her brother has pale white skin Blonde hair.

so racism generally doesn't work out well for those who use it.

That said if 1/4 of those children come from asian or latin households they will be racist to just not against white people for the most part.

Frazzled wrote:

d-usa wrote:I am inclined to think that maybe she meant that as we become a more diverse and integrated culture, and now we have a generation that grows up more diverse than any before it, we will all learn to become more tolerant of each other.

We can always hope.

Worked for the Balkans. How could it be wrong?

You know how scary it migth be, I am inclided to agree with you on this one. I just hope you people lay of the civil war/ etnical cleansing until I am gone from this world.

Bromsy wrote:

dæl wrote:

Bromsy wrote:
And I never had much trouble being understood anywhere in Europe with my awesome ability to always repeat myself slower and louder.

Pointing in a more and more rigorous manner helps too.

Pointing seems like such a gallic thing to do. I have been known to shake my fist though.

Every couple of years my uncle comes to visit from Germany. He doesn't speak a lick of English, but I am always in awe of his ability to communicate effectively using nothing but slow German, lots of hand gestures, and a never ending enthusiasm to just meet people.

treadhead1944 wrote:Someone who speaks three languages? Tri-Lingual
Someone who speaks two languages? Bi-Lingual
Someone who speaks one language? American!

When my Great-Grandfather came to the US from Sicily in the 1890's, he did not speak a word of English. When he died in 1948, he spoke three phrases of English, and two of them were bad phrases.

I grew up speaking English. In High School I took Italian, and in college I took Italian, German and Spanish. I am fluent in none of them, but can speak enough to get by if necessary. Is it too much to ask an immigrant to learn English in America? Yes and No. My Great-Grand lived in Little Italy in New York, and then when he moved to Detroit, he lived in the Italian section of the city. He surrounded himself with "his" people. His children on the other hand went to American schools, got American jobs, and Etc., including the two children who were born in Palermo.

My point? In time you acclimate to the culture you live in, giving some of your culture back, and generation to generation the world slowly changes.

Ah, but that only works if the only language in schools is english. Had your family had the option of being taught in Italian do you think they might have? The issue is becoming more that newer generations aren't acclimating either. It's not longer a generational melting pot. You can now be a second generation hispanic and not need to speak english at all. At least in SoCal.

My wife's great-great-grandfather came over from Germany. When they had kids they did not let them speak German at home. It was english only in their home since they were Americans now. That just isn't the mentality of many immigrants now. They are "insert culture"-American now instead of American.

Different times. Either way my kids are going to learn Spanish to since there is no point in pretending that it hasn't become the second language of America.

Im irish/german and my gf is half puerto rican half german, would a child of our be considered a non-white overlord?

Exalted Pariah wrote:Im irish/german and my gf is half puerto rican half german, would a child of our be considered a non-white overlord?

Only 1/4 non-white, but according to the census it could be both!

I would be more concerned about all that genetic predisposition to gratuitous alcohol intake.

d-usa wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:Im irish/german and my gf is half puerto rican half german, would a child of our be considered a non-white overlord?

Only 1/4 non-white, but according to the census it could be both!

I would be more concerned about all that genetic predisposition to gratuitous alcohol intake.

I got nothing. thought I did, changed my mind

Yeah, or the temper part. I'm actually 50% irish, 25% german, 15% polish and 10% scottish. Plus she just reminded me that she's 20% german, 50% puerto rican 30% a mismash of nearly every european major eurpean ethnicity, to which I stated "so that half of your family really got around ,eh? *wink wink* *nudge nudge* she made a face, then I reminded her that if they looked half as good as her, they'd have to beat sutors off them with sticks. Thats what we call a save

Exalted Pariah wrote:Yeah, or the temper part. I'm actually 50% irish, 25% german, 15% polish and 10% scottish. Plus she just reminded me that she's 20% german, 50% puerto rican 30% a mismash of nearly every european major eurpean ethnicity, to which I stated "so that half of your family really got around ,eh? *wink wink* *nudge nudge* she made a face, then I reminded her that if they looked half as good as her, they'd have to beat sutors off them with sticks. Thats what we call a save

I love the way Americans figure all that gak out right down to percentages. Over here we don't much give a feth, I know to my grandparents and then never bothered to look any further. Like most Brits ive got Irish and Scottish, but I don't give a gak anyway.. I'm sure if you go back far enough were all mixed in together, and really, how accurate do you think your predictions are? Once you get past 4 generations you must be mixed in with half the continent! Thats like, 8 sets of parents already!

Anyway yeah.. I've always found it weird that people here don't care, and people there seem to know everything. My missus when I first met her said "Oh Im Spanish, Mexican, British, German, Cherokee, polish..."

I just say I'm from Yorkshire.

Holy Frak do I hate the level of cynicism in this thread. I swear half of you don't have the maturity of a 16 years old emo...

Multiculturalism: Intentionally pointing out our differences to further divide us by race.

It works fine in Canada. Why can't YOU make it work is a better question to ask.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

Yes, God forbid you would actually need to learn something in order to look polite and sophisticated. That would be so crass and un-WASPlike...

d-usa wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:Im irish/german and my gf is half puerto rican half german, would a child of our be considered a non-white overlord?

Only 1/4 non-white, but according to the census it could be both!

I would be more concerned about all that genetic predisposition to gratuitous alcohol intake.

prone to start bar fights, or alternatively continent fights. YES!

Kovnik Obama wrote:Holy Frak do I hate the level of cynicism in this thread. I swear half of you don't have the maturity of a 16 years old emo...

Multiculturalism: Intentionally pointing out our differences to further divide us by race.

It works fine in Canada. Why can't YOU make it work is a better question to ask.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

Yes, God forbid you would actually need to learn something in order to look polite and sophisticated. That would be so crass and un-WASPlike...

Multiculturalism only works in Canada because extreme weather gives people a common enemy, and hockey gives you a bloodsport to soothe your fury. Its a perfect storm of tolerance.



.... except for those riots that one time. But that was just people coming together.

Multiculturalism only works in Canada because extreme weather gives people a common enemy, and hockey gives you a bloodsport to soothe your fury. Its a perfect storm of tolerance.



.... except for those riots that one time. But that was just people coming together.

Then Metallica is obviously the reason why multiculturalism can't work in the States...

But one thing I just thought about ; Canada is in an exceptionnal position to have multiculturalism fail. 1) It's a melt-pot of successive (and still is) immigrations, 2) it's large enough for cultures and sub-cultures to develop without entering in contact with one another for a while, a 3) Not many other countries can claim having successfully maintained cohesion while having a secessionnist party representing about 10% of it's entire population. Beside the October Crisis (so 40 years ago), no one was harmed by what is essentially an ethnic issue between a large majority and a (audible) minority.

So, if we didn't come up with nationalistic or jingoistic traits in the last half century that would indeed make it impossible to remain a cohesive multiculture, what makes you say that it's impossible to avoid those same traits?

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Multiculturalism only works in Canada because extreme weather gives people a common enemy, and hockey gives you a bloodsport to soothe your fury. Its a perfect storm of tolerance.



.... except for those riots that one time. But that was just people coming together.

Then Metallica is obviously the reason why multiculturalism can't work in the States...

Nah, Metallica is the reason why we are too awesome for multiculturalism to work. Not counting St. Anger.

Does anyone ever count St. Anger?

Only when you mention that it isn't quite as bad as Lulu.

Never mind the Spanish, we should all learn to speak Irish:

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=As8quxqkVpE

mattyrm wrote: You guys make everything so complicated, as I said.. you don't need an excuse. Humans hate so much easier than they love.. Religion, skin colour, block, tribe, area, postcode.. people just fething hate each other!

Not to sound hippy or anything, I'm more like the comedian from Watchmen.

I saw some really fethed up stuff in Sierra Leone.. I could understand it if it was for theft or something, but.. just needlessly?

Anyway, I've never had nightmares, I don't think a burning orphanage would bother me. Nothing I ever saw upset me, just a grim sense of "Ah, I expected to see that gak anyway!"

Our species is awful, but there's no sense philosophising about it.

"The worlds a tough place, you just gotta be tougher right?"

Yes, I agree with you on this one.
Multi-culturism is not working in Australia, a lot of Ethnic groups run Gangs or smuggle in drugs. The refugees get Government Housing before Starving Homeless Australians. There is a lot of problems with the Lebonese in my area, the Chinese Triads smuggle in drugs. The only real benefit is comerical, food and other comerical assests. The groups also keep to themselves leading to multiple pocket cultures in Australia which is not really Multi-cultural. Many people also refuse to speak English. It's not working.

PhantomViper wrote:
You mean other than my daily personal and professional relations with Spanish people? Other than that I leave right next door to Spain and have actually travelled there countless times?

I spent a decent amount of time in Spain both before and after I became fluent in Spanish. Obviously it was easier to get by when my Spanish was better, but no knowing Spanish wasn't a huge issue in my daily life.

PhantomViper wrote:
Spanish is taught as a foreign language, yes, but the students have to choose between Spanish or English, for example.

Brazil has 190 million people. Of those, 5 million have actively studied Spanish during school.

I never studied Portuguese, but I had no problem getting by in Brazil using my Spanish as a knowledge base. It takes very little effort to understand and speak both languages once you know one of them.

rockerbikie wrote:

mattyrm wrote: You guys make everything so complicated, as I said.. you don't need an excuse. Humans hate so much easier than they love.. Religion, skin colour, block, tribe, area, postcode.. people just fething hate each other!

Not to sound hippy or anything, I'm more like the comedian from Watchmen.

I saw some really fethed up stuff in Sierra Leone.. I could understand it if it was for theft or something, but.. just needlessly?

Anyway, I've never had nightmares, I don't think a burning orphanage would bother me. Nothing I ever saw upset me, just a grim sense of "Ah, I expected to see that gak anyway!"

Our species is awful, but there's no sense philosophising about it.

"The worlds a tough place, you just gotta be tougher right?"

Yes, I agree with you on this one.
Multi-culturism is not working in Australia, a lot of Ethnic groups run Gangs or smuggle in drugs. The refugees get Government Housing before Starving Homeless Australians. There is a lot of problems with the Lebonese in my area, the Chinese Triads smuggle in drugs. The only real benefit is comerical, food and other comerical assests. The groups also keep to themselves leading to multiple pocket cultures in Australia which is not really Multi-cultural. Many people also refuse to speak English. It's not working.

I don't. Immoral behavior is akin to sick behaviour. Being insensitive to sickness is a sickness, or a symptom.

rockerbikie wrote:Multi-culturism is not working in Australia, a lot of Ethnic groups run Gangs or smuggle in drugs. The refugees get Government Housing before Starving Homeless Australians. There is a lot of problems with the Lebonese in my area, the Chinese Triads smuggle in drugs. The only real benefit is comerical, food and other comerical assests. The groups also keep to themselves leading to multiple pocket cultures in Australia which is not really Multi-cultural. Many people also refuse to speak English. It's not working.'

All of which are pretty much the tropes of cultural conservatism. But They Do Crime (tm). So do your ethnies. But Our Gov Is Unfair In Giving Them Advantages (tm). Yes, because everyone is just begging to live the refugee's life, since it's all government gravy... But They Create Ghettos (tm). So do your ethny, your's are just class based. But They Don't Speak Our Language (tm) then don't talk to them. It's fairly easy to do : see, I' m capable of avoiding all those pesky australian tourists with their ridiculously stupid accent...

rockerbikie wrote:The only real benefit is comerical, food and other comerical assests.

That's a pretty sizable benefit.

Also, Rockerbikie, gotta love the way you capitalize Starving Homeless Australians... that actually sound like a prettty mean gang

Romper Stomper, man!

Kovnik Obama wrote:Also, Rockerbikie, gotta love the way you capitalize Starving Homeless Australians... that actually sound like a prettty mean gang

Id gak myself if those guys lived next door!

....


O maybe we are wide of the mark.. and its a band?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:Romper Stomper, man!

I saw that film when I was a teenager, I thought it was bad ass. I especially liked when one skinhead says to a guy with hardly any hair at all "You look like a fething hippy with your hair like that!"

rockerbikie wrote:
Yes, I agree with you on this one.
Multi-culturism is not working in Australia, a lot of Ethnic groups run Gangs or smuggle in drugs. The refugees get Government Housing before Starving Homeless Australians. There is a lot of problems with the Lebonese in my area, the Chinese Triads smuggle in drugs. The only real benefit is comerical, food and other comerical assests. The groups also keep to themselves leading to multiple pocket cultures in Australia which is not really Multi-cultural. Many people also refuse to speak English. It's not working.

Is there something roughly akin to the BNP in OZ?