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H.B.M.C. wrote:Multiculturalism: Intentionally pointing out our differences to further divide us by race.

Peace out.

What he said

dæl wrote:Indeed it isn't solely American, however you guys are the dominant power. And all the things listed are admirable (you missed the most important, the Enlightenment), apart from maybe democracy (imo turns important decisions into popularity contests, if there existed such a thing as a truely selfless person they would be the perfect leader. a la Plato's Republic).

I very much doubt the middle east will be very important once the oil runs out, that whole inventing zero thing is pretty old hat. China, India and Brazil on the other hand...

WW1 and 2 weren't started over there no, they were Germany getting uppity. But still, Invasion of Grenada (UN said it "deeply deplores the armed intervention in Grenada, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of that State".) Invasion of Panama (UN "condemned the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law") the current Iraq war (unmandated by the UN). It all seems a little warmongery, with little or no regard for international law and civilian casualties.

Brazil is in most ways a "western culture" with heavy infusion of Pre-Spanish culture as well.

joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

If only the natives had their "Stay of our yards" sign in English

that was the beginning of their downfall.

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Er spricht die Wahrheit

Yeah, racism isn't cool

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Good lord, it's like Frazzled, but serious...

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

PhantomViper wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

Well, actually, it would work well.

Most European countries teach English in the classroom, along with places like China and Malaysia. So yes, they would be able to talk (A bit broken) in English.

We should give the South Americans the same courtesy.

Don't Brazilians speak Portuguese? Also in certain areas of Spain there are people who live there and have never spoken a word of Spanish, trust the Brits to just emigrate on mass and refuse to integrate.

PhantomViper wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

Let me first note that there is not official language in the US, although English is the de facto national language. Some states do have an official language, and some states have more than one official language.

I'm not saying he should be forced to speak a different language, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with learning another one, and I think learning one should be encouraged, not discouraged. And depending on which Spanish-speaking country we're talking about, you might be just fine only speaking English. I'm not necessarily recommending going to another country without knowing any of the local language, but you might be surprised how far you can get in a lot of countries with just English, and it's a hell of a lot farther than you could get in a lot of US states with only Spanish.


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dæl wrote:Don't Brazilians speak Portuguese? Also in certain areas of Spain there are people who live there and have never spoken a word of Spanish, trust the Brits to just emigrate on mass and refuse to integrate.

Brazilians do speak Portuguese, and I'm sure many of them also speak Spanish as a second language.

There's also a bunch of different Romance languages spoken in different areas of Spain, like Catalan spoken in Catalonia.

And of course there's Basque country, where they speak Basque which isn't even an Indo-European language, much less a Romance language.

My personal opinion is that the Government serves the people, not the other way around.

If a large amount of people served by such government speak a different language, then the government needs to speak that language.

Just my opinion, and why I always vote against any english-only-official-language amendment.

That and living in Oklahoma, the state full of Native American tribes. So taking the "speak our language or get out of this land" road is extra insulting to me considering that fact.

Chowderhead wrote:
Well, actually, it would work well.

Most European countries teach English in the classroom, along with places like China and Malaysia. So yes, they would be able to talk (A bit broken) in English.

We should give the South Americans the same courtesy.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are talking about a country that even translates foreign bands names into Spanish. Only 1,4% of Spaniards that graduate from college have a working knowledge of English, let alone the general population. Go speak to a normal person in the street and they wouldn't even identify the language that you were speaking, let alone understand it!


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Hordini wrote:
Brazilians do speak Portuguese, and I'm sure many of them also speak Spanish as a second language.

Why on earth would a Brazilian speak Spanish as a second language? They speak Portuguese and a little bit of English, most of the time.

I feel that they should learn english just like everyone else who had to in order to survive outside of their cultural group.

The US has had large groups of immigrants from many countries but yet my Mchappy burger has writing in spanish? why are they so special? why do they deserve to have preferential treatment over everyone else?

Deathklaat wrote:I feel that they should learn english just like everyone else who had to in order to survive outside of their cultural group.

The US has had large groups of immigrants from many countries but yet my Mchappy burger has writing in spanish? why are they so special? why do they deserve to have preferential treatment over everyone else?

Probably because they make up nearly a fifth of your population, more Hispanics than Black people in the US. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

In the UK a lot of correspondence from the government is written in English, Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Greek, Gujurati, Hindi, Polish, Punjabi, Somali, Turkish, Urdu, and Vietnamese. (But not Welsh )

Edit: Checked the letter i was talking about, and it was asking if you needed an interpreter. Not quite the same thing.

Deathklaat wrote:I feel that they should learn english just like everyone else who had to in order to survive outside of their cultural group.

The US has had large groups of immigrants from many countries but yet my Mchappy burger has writing in spanish? why are they so special? why do they deserve to have preferential treatment over everyone else?

Capitalism?

If McHappy wants to maximize profits and sell stuff to Hispanics, then they have every right to market to Hispanics.

Unless you want the Government telling private business what to do and what language to speak

PhantomViper wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:
Well, actually, it would work well.

Most European countries teach English in the classroom, along with places like China and Malaysia. So yes, they would be able to talk (A bit broken) in English.

We should give the South Americans the same courtesy.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are talking about a country that even translates foreign bands names into Spanish. Only 1,4% of Spaniards that graduate from college have a working knowledge of English, let alone the general population. Go speak to a normal person in the street and they wouldn't even identify the language that you were speaking, let alone understand it!

I think you're exaggerating a bit. Do you have any sources to back that up? It's probably true that there are fewer people in Spain who speak reasonably good English than in other European countries like Germany or the Netherlands, but 1.4% seems extremely low. I guess it also depends on what level they consider to be a "working knowledge" though. It might be different in the countryside, but in urban areas you can definitely find people in the street who understand some English.

PhantomViper wrote:
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Hordini wrote:
Brazilians do speak Portuguese, and I'm sure many of them also speak Spanish as a second language.

Why on earth would a Brazilian speak Spanish as a second language? They speak Portuguese and a little bit of English, most of the time.

Because Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries and Spanish is taught as a foreign language in schools (English is as well, of course).



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Deathklaat wrote:I feel that they should learn english just like everyone else who had to in order to survive outside of their cultural group.

The US has had large groups of immigrants from many countries but yet my Mchappy burger has writing in spanish? why are they so special? why do they deserve to have preferential treatment over everyone else?

I'm not saying that immigrants to the US shouldn't also learn English, I think they definitely should. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad idea for American-born citizens to learn a bit of another language though.

Please consider carefully the prejudicial implications of certain metaphors before posting them. Dakka Dakka has a zero tolerance policy regarding racist comments.

Thanks,

Manchu

Dude.....no.

I think somebody needs to step away from the keyboard a bit.

Hordini wrote:
I'm not saying that immigrants to the US shouldn't also learn English, I think they definitely should. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad idea for American-born citizens to learn a bit of another language though.

Cantonese would be a good choice. Closely followed by something Latin based, probably Spanish.

dæl wrote:

Hordini wrote:
I'm not saying that immigrants to the US shouldn't also learn English, I think they definitely should. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad idea for American-born citizens to learn a bit of another language though.

Cantonese would be a good choice. Closely followed by something Latin based, probably Spanish.

In general, at least in terms of how much use you could get out of it without leaving the country, Spanish would be a much better choice than Cantonese at this point.

actually SPoD was a reference to Storm Troopers of Death's album, i just thought it was fitting.

i still think we need to build a wall along our Mexical border, something about the size of the Great Wall of China will do. That and cut PR loose or make them pay taxes for once.

d-usa wrote:Yeah, racism isn't cool

The Asian chick in that poster is pretty mint like.

On topic, this thread is proper full of self loathing white hippies by the way. They always told me there was plenty of people like that, I just never met many.

Listen, foreigners arent some bastion of glory and intellectual prowess, ive been all over Europe, and in loads of places they speak feth all English. Italy, France, Spain.. they arent some sort of utopian society where everyone is Vegan, practices Feng Shui, speaks 12 languages and cycles everywhere.

People that speak English put themselves down all the time, Americans, Brits, Ozzies.. as if we suck and the rest of the world is awesome. Its a crock of gak.

Im all for making people speak your language. I don't expect to have an easy time In France or Spain so I learn some lingo, your damn straight I expect the same. feth em. If they want to move here, learn English, or piss off home.

When did that splendid old mantra "When in Rome" become bigotry incarnate? Its not wrong to expect a little bloody effort from the fethers when they come over. If I sent my kids to school in India, I would make the little gaks eat, dress, and speak like the locals. I think its respectful, and frankly I feel we are far too accommodating in the US/UK.

Country founded and populated by immigrants, doesn't like immigrants. Its as ironic as having to not have criminal record to live in Australia.

Hordini wrote:
I think you're exaggerating a bit. Do you have any sources to back that up? It's probably true that there are fewer people in Spain who speak reasonably good English than in other European countries like Germany or the Netherlands, but 1.4% seems extremely low. I guess it also depends on what level they consider to be a "working knowledge" though. It might be different in the countryside, but in urban areas you can definitely find people in the street who understand some English.

You mean other than my daily personal and professional relations with Spanish people? Other than that I leave right next door to Spain and have actually travelled there countless times?

I have found this article in english: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2005/feb/11/tefl1

Note that AFAIK, those measures haven't been implemented yet.

PhantomViper wrote:
Because Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries and Spanish is taught as a foreign language in schools (English is as well, of course).

Spanish is taught as a foreign language, yes, but the students have to choose between Spanish or English, for example.

Brazil has 190 million people. Of those, 5 million have actively studied Spanish during school.

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

You mean like "Hola!" yea already there. In fact I'm fully versed in all phrases needed to get my face slapped in Spanish.


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PhantomViper wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Deathklaat wrote:joy just what the US needs more of...

now ill have to translate "stay off my lawn or ill shoot you in the face!" into Spanish now.

Maybe ill make something like the Rosetta Stone except it will only have one phrase written on it.. "Speak English or die."

Maybe you could try learning a few friendly greetings in Spanish instead? There's nothing wrong with learning to speak more than one language. There are a multitude of benefits and basically no downside.

Why on earth should he be forced to speak a different language in his own country?

Go to a Spanish speaking country only speaking English and see how good you do...

You're right. When I was in California, speaking English could be a real problem. Fortunately there were several people who could translate for me.
Whats interesting is how "hey cheeka" and "looking good there chola girl" almost got me married...

PhantomViper wrote:

Hordini wrote:
I think you're exaggerating a bit. Do you have any sources to back that up? It's probably true that there are fewer people in Spain who speak reasonably good English than in other European countries like Germany or the Netherlands, but 1.4% seems extremely low. I guess it also depends on what level they consider to be a "working knowledge" though. It might be different in the countryside, but in urban areas you can definitely find people in the street who understand some English.

You mean other than my daily personal and professional relations with Spanish people? Other than that I leave right next door to Spain and have actually travelled there countless times?

I have found this article in english: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2005/feb/11/tefl1

Note that AFAIK, those measures haven't been implemented yet.

PhantomViper wrote:
Because Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries and Spanish is taught as a foreign language in schools (English is as well, of course).

Spanish is taught as a foreign language, yes, but the students have to choose between Spanish or English, for example.

Brazil has 190 million people. Of those, 5 million have actively studied Spanish during school.

Yes, but I would bet that there are many who can understand and speak at least a bit of Spanish due to the similarities between Portuguese and Spanish and being surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries. Also note that when I say "speak," I'm not talking about speaking with 100% native-like fluency.


I'm quoting the article here:

According to a survey by Employment and Global Media Consultants, only 1.4% of Spanish university students graduate with the second-language levels (almost always English) necessary to find employment in multinationals.

I'm not saying that there are a ton of Spaniards who speak English fluently, or that there are a ton that you're going to be having deep philosophical conversations in English with. I'm saying there are enough Spaniards who speak a bit of English that you can get by in an urban area speaking primarily English. I've been to Spain too, and I was able to get by with English and a tiny bit of Spanish. Just because only 1.4% are fluent enough in English to be employed by a multinational, that doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of others that you'll be able to communicate with enough to get by if you speak English.