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I'm referring to their pre diaspora attitude.

Their attitude didn't actually change. Being gods chosen people is in the scriptures.

Yes, but pre diaspora, they were genetically the same people as their neighbors, who they considered inferior. Granted, they would allow them to convert to Judaism.

Amaya wrote:Yes, but pre diaspora, they were genetically the same people as their neighbors, who they considered inferior. Granted, they would allow them to convert to Judaism.

Back then most populations were genetically homogeneous as we were no longer a nomadic species, but we didn't yet have the genetic distribution caused by rising and falling imperial powers and sea trade/travel. Europe wasn't really a thing until well after the diaspora. It was there, certainly, but most of it's populations and nations didn't come to be until after.

I don't get the people who say that racism and hatred is part of our nature, so we shouldn't care. A huge portion of murderers and racists are genetically inclined to be murderers and rapists, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say, "Ah well, let 'em rape and murder as much as they want. It's not their fault."

Amaya wrote:I'm referring to their pre diaspora attitude.

Even then it doesn't make them a race. The US has had the same attitude of being hand picked by god, and so have the Brits as well, but that doesn't mean all Americans are considered a separate race, nor the British.

LoneLictor wrote:I don't get the people who say that racism and hatred is part of our nature, so we shouldn't care. A huge portion of murderers and racists are genetically inclined to be murderers and rapists, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say, "Ah well, let 'em rape and murder as much as they want. It's not their fault."

No no.. That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying, why worry about gak you cant change?

I'm not saying, "LET people do whatever they want"

gak, Im all up for locking people up forever who get caught raping and murdering, im just saying its pointless hypothesising about why rape and murder occurs because its always going to regardless!

Is this relevant?

mattyrm wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't get the people who say that racism and hatred is part of our nature, so we shouldn't care. A huge portion of murderers and racists are genetically inclined to be murderers and rapists, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say, "Ah well, let 'em rape and murder as much as they want. It's not their fault."

No no.. That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying, why worry about gak you cant change?

I'm not saying, "LET people do whatever they want"

gak, Im all up for locking people up forever who get caught raping and murdering, im just saying its pointless hypothesising about why rape and murder occurs because its always going to regardless!

Could you clarify this? It doesn't make much sense. So do you think we should actively fight racism or should we just let it slide? Do you think it's excusable because its human nature or do you think its inexcusable because of how immoral it is?

Ahtman wrote:

Amaya wrote:I'm referring to their pre diaspora attitude.

Even then it doesn't make them a race. The US has had the same attitude of being hand picked by god, and so have the Brits as well, but that doesn't mean all Americans are considered a separate race, nor the British.

I never said that they were a unique race pre diaspora. They were no different than their neighbors of the same race, but considered them inferior.

LoneLictor wrote:I don't get the people who say that racism and hatred is part of our nature, so we shouldn't care. A huge portion of murderers and racists are genetically inclined to be murderers and rapists, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say, "Ah well, let 'em rape and murder as much as they want. It's not their fault."

No one's said, we've just acknowledged that humans naturally have tribal tendencies.

Amaya wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I don't get the people who say that racism and hatred is part of our nature, so we shouldn't care. A huge portion of murderers and racists are genetically inclined to be murderers and rapists, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say, "Ah well, let 'em rape and murder as much as they want. It's not their fault."

No one's said, we've just acknowledged that humans naturally have tribal tendencies.

Good to know. My post was actually semiresponding to something I saw on the website Yo Is This Racist?, which is an excellent website. Basically an asian guy says the word "Yo" a lot and tells racists that they're racist. Then people get really mad at him and then he's like "Ah gak, you racist". Great website.

Meh, I get along fine with other skin colors. It's your income that I care about

Ain't no war like the class war!

Why has no one posted a Haters Gonna Hate GIF yet? This thread is begging for it. Look at the way it's dressed!

The Balkans, Isreal, Northern Ireland, pre-war Europe. Yeah I can see how this will turn out.
People of their own culture need to live with other people of their own culture. It's a basic human need to want to live with people who share their language, history, values, etc. Even in "multi-cultural" parts of the world, people of different ethnicities overwealmingly live alongside people of the same ethnicity.
Personally I would be surprised if the next 100 years will be as peaceful as the past 100 years were in the good ol' USA.

Joey wrote:The Balkans, Isreal, Northern Ireland, pre-war Europe. Yeah I can see how this will turn out.
People of their own culture need to live with other people of their own culture. It's a basic human need to want to live with people who share their language, history, values, etc. Even in "multi-cultural" parts of the world, people of different ethnicities overwealmingly live alongside people of the same ethnicity.
Personally I would be surprised if the next 100 years will be as peaceful as the past 100 years were in the good ol' USA.

Or, ya know, if people maybe took a step back and tried to stop being racist donkey-caves, then maybe multicultural and racial areas would do fine. That's my philosophy. Though human nature is assholeish, that doesn't mean that everyone has to be an donkey-cave.

LoneLictor wrote:

Joey wrote:The Balkans, Isreal, Northern Ireland, pre-war Europe. Yeah I can see how this will turn out.
People of their own culture need to live with other people of their own culture. It's a basic human need to want to live with people who share their language, history, values, etc. Even in "multi-cultural" parts of the world, people of different ethnicities overwealmingly live alongside people of the same ethnicity.
Personally I would be surprised if the next 100 years will be as peaceful as the past 100 years were in the good ol' USA.

Or, ya know, if people maybe took a step back and tried to stop being racist donkey-caves, then maybe multicultural and racial areas would do fine. That's my philosophy. Though human nature is assholeish, that doesn't mean that everyone has to be an donkey-cave.

You wouldn't tell a starving man to stop thinking about food, why should bigotry be any different? We love those similar to us and we hate those who're different. Rolling your eyes and saying "well that's just human nature" is completely ignoring it.

Joey wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Joey wrote:The Balkans, Isreal, Northern Ireland, pre-war Europe. Yeah I can see how this will turn out.
People of their own culture need to live with other people of their own culture. It's a basic human need to want to live with people who share their language, history, values, etc. Even in "multi-cultural" parts of the world, people of different ethnicities overwealmingly live alongside people of the same ethnicity.
Personally I would be surprised if the next 100 years will be as peaceful as the past 100 years were in the good ol' USA.

Or, ya know, if people maybe took a step back and tried to stop being racist donkey-caves, then maybe multicultural and racial areas would do fine. That's my philosophy. Though human nature is assholeish, that doesn't mean that everyone has to be an donkey-cave.

You wouldn't tell a starving man to stop thinking about food, why should bigotry be any different? We love those similar to us and we hate those who're different. Rolling your eyes and saying "well that's just human nature" is completely ignoring it.

I'm confused by what you're saying. What I'm saying is that racism is bad and people should try to stop being racist. Not really groundbreaking or anything, but I figered that I'd post it.

Right, and I think everyone should stop being mean and stabbing/killing each other, let's abolish the police!

mattyrm wrote: Why on earth would it?

Because those who grow up around a large variety of people tend to be less bigoted than those who grow up isolated amongst a single group, at least in my experience.

Joey wrote:Right, and I think everyone should stop being mean and stabbing/killing each other, let's abolish the police!

Huh? All I said is that racism is bad. Now I think I might've said something I didn't say. God, I shouldn't use computer when sleep deprived.

No, Joey's just willfully misinterpreting your post.

I find it funny that when people say "thats just human nature" they are invariably talking about the worst aspects of human behaviour, and often it is things which are unjustifiable without resorting to that stock phrase. Just because people have done things like that for years, doesn't mean that they are incapable of acting any other way.

Bring on the alien invasion when we all realise we're not that different after all.

Man, I have no problem with people with different skin colors and whatnot. I am only mildly leery of immigrants. I do have a major problem with creating ethnic enclaves that basically stop being a part of the country. Integrate, man - western culture won, get on board!

Bromsy wrote:western culture won, get on board!

Western culture hasn't won, it's ahead on points. Come back in century and things will look very different.

When I lived in New Orleans for a couple of years, I was surprised to find Blacks judging other Blacks by how light or dark their skin was.
The lighter skinned Backs were called "high yellow" by the darker skinned Blacks. Those with light skin tones would look down at those darker than themselves.
All that being said, I don't know how wide spread it was, but I heard it mentioned in enough conversations down there that I just thought I'd mention it.

That's occurred for generations in America due to lighter skinned blacks frequently used as house slaves while darker ones were stuck in the fields. Even now it's common for images of blacks to be lightened, but I think that may be primarily restricted to females. It's a bit distressing.

dæl wrote:

Bromsy wrote:western culture won, get on board!

Western culture hasn't won, it's ahead on points. Come back in century and things will look very different.

You say this like its a good thing.

Frazzled wrote:

dæl wrote:

Bromsy wrote:western culture won, get on board!

Western culture hasn't won, it's ahead on points. Come back in century and things will look very different.

You say this like its a good thing.

It might well be, no offence to America but a fair whack of its populous aren't the sharpest knives in the draw (of course there are some incredibly clever, cultured and cosmopolitan people there too, in fact the majority I have met fall into this category), but those are the ones that seem to be appealed to so as politicians can claim and retain power. And America is a relatively young country which makes certain aspects of American foreign policy seem to an outsider to be boisterous, infantile and a little hysterical. Just my opinion, I mean we were probably worse when we had an empire, after all you guys didn't invent concentration camps, and don't really engage in the whole ethnic cleansing thing.

I sense I may get pilloried for this.

dæl wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

dæl wrote:

Bromsy wrote:western culture won, get on board!

Western culture hasn't won, it's ahead on points. Come back in century and things will look very different.

You say this like its a good thing.

It might well be, no offence to America but a fair whack of its populous aren't the sharpest knives in the draw (of course there are some incredibly clever, cultured and cosmopolitan people there too, in fact the majority I have met fall into this category), but those are the ones that seem to be appealed to so as politicians can claim and retain power. And America is a relatively young country which makes certain aspects of American foreign policy seem to an outsider to be boisterous, infantile and a little hysterical. Just my opinion, I mean we were probably worse when we had an empire, after all you guys didn't invent concentration camps, and don't really engage in the whole ethnic cleansing thing.

I sense I may get pilloried for this.

You know Western culture is not just the US right? Its brought us sich niceties as the Reformation, the Renaissance, little things like voting, democracy, indeed the fconcept of fundamental human rights and freedoms.

I'll just note WWI and WWII didn't start here and I am sure our Americas women folk would much rather live under the enlightened regimes of the Middle East.

Indeed it isn't solely American, however you guys are the dominant power. And all the things listed are admirable (you missed the most important, the Enlightenment), apart from maybe democracy (imo turns important decisions into popularity contests, if there existed such a thing as a truely selfless person they would be the perfect leader. a la Plato's Republic).

I very much doubt the middle east will be very important once the oil runs out, that whole inventing zero thing is pretty old hat. China, India and Brazil on the other hand...

WW1 and 2 weren't started over there no, they were Germany getting uppity. But still, Invasion of Grenada (UN said it "deeply deplores the armed intervention in Grenada, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of that State".) Invasion of Panama (UN "condemned the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law") the current Iraq war (unmandated by the UN). It all seems a little warmongery, with little or no regard for international law and civilian casualties.

Multiculturalism: Intentionally pointing out our differences to further divide us by race.

Peace out.