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 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
IIRC, the whole point of Sorot Tchure's monologue was the ecstasy of treachery so I guess some badmouthing of one's own Primarch is fitting in the context. I seem to recall the whole thing making Honorius Luciel uncomfortable.

I think any Legionnaire would feel rather awkward if a fellow Legionnaire from another Legion started saying how good so and so Primarch was and that theirs was a bit of a dick.

It was ; "never seen before" moment...
But if it was IRL,they would probably bitch about their bosses all the time...

 thenoobbomb wrote:
In Legion, neither Alpharius or Omegon appeared to have any connection to the warp n the way a psyker does.

Since Alpharius and Omegon are apparently a single soul in two bodies, that would surely be an extremely obvious example of the primarchs' psychic potential. Even if they never utilised any other powers, the fact that the two of them are apparently a single person as far as the psychics of the Cabal are concerned is some pretty impressive shenanigans.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I didn't take this as a character hating his Primarch, they had to bear with him sure and he might not have been like the other Primarchs, but they loved him all the same, he made the Word Bearers what they were. Now they no longer bear the word and they are glad to bear Lorgar as he is something more and he is bringing them to their full glory. Basically bearing Lorgar is a statement of pride.

Right before that statement, he literally says "I HATE MY PRIMARCH".



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 Pilau Rice wrote:

Both I guess as the Word Bearers and Lorgar have changed at this time. After Monarchia they weren't sure of their purpose, which I guess is where they lost their way a bit as well as their faith in Lorgar, but now at this point Lorgar has renewed their purpose and drive, they have a new goal and new Gods to believe in. They might have envied any of the other Legions during Lorgar's seclusion as the other Legions all knew their role in the grander scheme of things.

The quote specifically says he is not the only one. Tchure does say they are finding their purpose at last, but he doesn't seem to relish it in the least. He loathes his Primarch and his new-found purpose, but goes along anyway. Argel Tal is much the same way, he hates Lorgar for what was done to him, but does it out of duty.

 Durza wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
In Legion, neither Alpharius or Omegon appeared to have any connection to the warp n the way a psyker does.

Since Alpharius and Omegon are apparently a single soul in two bodies, that would surely be an extremely obvious example of the primarchs' psychic potential. Even if they never utilised any other powers, the fact that the two of them are apparently a single person as far as the psychics of the Cabal are concerned is some pretty impressive shenanigans.

So if one is dead - what is other? Half-souled ? Or finally whole ?

He's misunderstood in the same way that kid who dressed in drag on the last day of high school was

All the Primarchs were immense Psykers, they were the scions of the most powerful human psyker ever. However due to the Emperor's attempts to keep the Warp's true nature hidden few except Magnus and Lorgar really developed their psychic potential.

^and Sangy

Sanguinius didn't really develop his psychic gifts, they came to him in the form of visions.

If anything, you could argue Mortarion, Corax and Night Haunter are more developed than angel-boy. Corax has that whole invisibility thing, Night Haunter has visions AND invisibility, and according to the new HH book, Mortarion can basically teleport, etc.

WHAT! He can teleport? what book is that in? no spoilers please just the name of the book would do me nice if anyone knows it.

Lorgar is like a little puppy dog that got his nose rubbed in his gak and decided that biting his master's foot was the better way to go instead of learning the lesson.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omegus wrote:
Sanguinius didn't really develop his psychic gifts, they came to him in the form of visions.

Only because he was in denial about it. The ones that embraced their psychic self.. well, we know how they turned out.

 Omegus wrote:
Sanguinius didn't really develop his psychic gifts, they came to him in the form of visions.

If anything, you could argue Mortarion, Corax and Night Haunter are more developed than angel-boy. Corax has that whole invisibility thing, Night Haunter has visions AND invisibility, and according to the new HH book, Mortarion can basically teleport, etc.

He apparently has enough mastery to wield a Force Sword, but eh.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
WHAT! He can teleport? what book is that in? no spoilers please just the name of the book would do me nice if anyone knows it.

His tabletop self in the Horus Heresy - Betrayal book, which gives him stats.

 Omegus wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I didn't take this as a character hating his Primarch, they had to bear with him sure and he might not have been like the other Primarchs, but they loved him all the same, he made the Word Bearers what they were. Now they no longer bear the word and they are glad to bear Lorgar as he is something more and he is bringing them to their full glory. Basically bearing Lorgar is a statement of pride.

Right before that statement, he literally says "I HATE MY PRIMARCH".

I have been suitably informed of this

 Omegus wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Both I guess as the Word Bearers and Lorgar have changed at this time. After Monarchia they weren't sure of their purpose, which I guess is where they lost their way a bit as well as their faith in Lorgar, but now at this point Lorgar has renewed their purpose and drive, they have a new goal and new Gods to believe in. They might have envied any of the other Legions during Lorgar's seclusion as the other Legions all knew their role in the grander scheme of things.

The quote specifically says he is not the only one. Tchure does say they are finding their purpose at last, but he doesn't seem to relish it in the least. He loathes his Primarch and his new-found purpose, but goes along anyway. Argel Tal is much the same way, he hates Lorgar for what was done to him, but does it out of duty.

I am not sure though, if he hates his Primarch and the direction that he has and will take them in, why go along with it at all? The Word Bearers culled their own ranks, why wasn't Tchure included? I think I will have to go back to Know no Fear and have a refresh.

 Omegus wrote:
Sanguinius didn't really develop his psychic gifts, they came to him in the form of visions.

If anything, you could argue Mortarion, Corax and Night Haunter are more developed than angel-boy. Corax has that whole invisibility thing, Night Haunter has visions AND invisibility, and according to the new HH book, Mortarion can basically teleport, etc.

I think Sanguinius and Curze foresight was probably about the same, but Curze certainly pained him more, whether this was due to the nature of the revelations or the revelations themselves I don't know. I don't believe he had invisibility though, he just was able to use shadows to accomplish this from his upbringing on Nostramo. Unless this is from ANGEL EXTERMINATUS!!! (evil The Omen music) ...

Mortarion teleporting, now, I have heard this before. It was discussed before as he always seems to be able to step from amongst shadows themselves, is this what you mean Omegus?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
WHAT! He can teleport? what book is that in? no spoilers please just the name of the book would do me nice if anyone knows it.

His tabletop self in the Horus Heresy - Betrayal book, which gives him stats.

Oh, question answered, well that was an anti - climax

 Pilau Rice wrote:

I am not sure though, if he hates his Primarch and the direction that he has and will take them in, why go along with it at all? The Word Bearers culled their own ranks, why wasn't Tchure included? I think I will have to go back to Know no Fear and have a refresh.

Duty, Fanaticism, Faith, take your pick. It's the same reason Argel Tal loathed Lorgar for what happened to him (and Lorgar further made clear that he didn't give to gaks about him beyond as a tool), yet he faithfully served him anyway despite his misgivings (up to and including severing the Gellar field that protected the incubation pods). It's the same reason Word Bearers will walk unquestioning into certain death at their superior's orders. It's the same reason that Lorgar sees the "Truth" of Chaos as a horrid and distasteful thing that will never be willingly accepted by humanity, but propagates it anyway via an unfortunate but necessary (in his eyes) Crusade.

As for the cull, they killed all those from Terra, because their first loyalty was to the Emperor.

 Omegus wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

I am not sure though, if he hates his Primarch and the direction that he has and will take them in, why go along with it at all? The Word Bearers culled their own ranks, why wasn't Tchure included? I think I will have to go back to Know no Fear and have a refresh.

Duty, Fanaticism, Faith, take your pick. It's the same reason Argel Tal loathed Lorgar for what happened to him (and Lorgar further made clear that he didn't give to gaks about him beyond as a tool), yet he faithfully served him anyway despite his misgivings (up to and including severing the Gellar field that protected the incubation pods). It's the same reason Word Bearers will walk unquestioning into certain death at their superior's orders. It's the same reason that Lorgar sees the "Truth" of Chaos as a horrid and distasteful thing that will never be willingly accepted by humanity, but propagates it anyway via an unfortunate but necessary (in his eyes) Crusade.

As for the cull, they killed all those from Terra, because their first loyalty was to the Emperor.

That's a very good reply.

Still going to go and do my research, but I am nearly convinced.

Edit: went away, did have a look and I see your point and it's true to an extent. The difference is that in despite of their misgivings towards Lorgar they began to believe in him again, like I mentioned with the Ultramarines, they now have clarity of purpose. Lorgar is leading them to something better and Tchure proves this by acting on the treachery. If he didn't believe that they were in a new dawn he didn't have to betray what's his face.

Lorgar also knows that the masses will not welcome the Chaos Gods with open arms, due to their nature, but he propagates it, as you say, as it is the truth, in his eyes at least. That the Emperor lied and their are Gods and Demons. You will accept the truth or you will die.

I didn't say he didn't believe in it, but that doesn't mean he particularly likes it. In fact, that distaste only underlines the horror he's about to enact, which lends it all the more potency.

The Word Bearers seem to fall into one of three categories. There is a large segment that are extremely self-serving and power-hungry (Erebus, Kor Phaeron, pretty much any named character in the Word Bearers series, that other high-ranking Word Bearer that shows in Fear to Tread, etc). Another large portion, usually unnamed, are the soldiers of the line that are little different from cultists: fearless and fatalistic fanatics (that's a lot of F's!) with unswerving devotion to their cause. A tiny minority like Tchure and Argel Tal are "human" enough to regret the terrible nature of their actions, but do it anyway out of a sense of duty and/or faith.

Like with most (all?) other Legions, the Primarchs are reflections of their Legions (or the other way around). Lorgar craves acknowledgement and aggrandizement, he has the conviction of a fanatic, and a small part of him recognizes his actions as monstrous, but does them anyway.

He might not like what he has to do, but he welcomes the new sense of purpose that the Lorgar has began to give them or he is starting to feel that way.

And like Lorgar says everything changed after Istvaan, that was the turning point. Even Lorgar recognised what sort of an atrocity it was to turn on his father, but he and his followers went through with it because it was right, in their eyes, to do so.

After that point they weren't following blindly any more.