Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I doubt it, I think that GW is a large enough gorilla to avoid being eaten up by Hasbro. If Hasbro wanted them, they'd probably already have them as well. I dread to think what would happen should GW be eaten by a company like that.

Isn't the White Coucil $75 for 4 Figure sized Finecast models? lol

 Auxellion wrote:
Isn't the White Coucil $75 for 4 Figure sized Finecast models? lol

Even so, I don't think thats too unreasonable. 4 Characters@ 18 or so each. Like I said earlier, most characters, especially fine cast are around 15-25 each

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I doubt it, I think that GW is a large enough gorilla to avoid being eaten up by Hasbro. If Hasbro wanted them, they'd probably already have them as well. I dread to think what would happen should GW be eaten by a company like that.

It would quite obviously mean a Michael Bay movie starring Shia Lebouf as Marneus Calgar and Chris Tucker as Captain Cato Sicarius, his comic relief second in command with vaguely racial overtones.

 Ouze wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I doubt it, I think that GW is a large enough gorilla to avoid being eaten up by Hasbro. If Hasbro wanted them, they'd probably already have them as well. I dread to think what would happen should GW be eaten by a company like that.

It would quite obviously mean a Michael Bay movie starring Shia Lebouf as Marneus Calgar and Chris Tucker as Captain Cato Sicarius, his comic relief second in command with vaguely racial overtones.

Good answer. The sad thing is that your prediction is almost plausible.

The thing that gets me about the Trolls isn't the price, it's the massive scale difference with the LOTR trolls. I would have thought Will, Bert and Tom would have been closer in size to a cave troll, but they're waaaaay bigger. Also not wild about the huge stylistic differences between the goblins and the previous moria goblins, which while monopose are really nice.

That's something which has made me curious as well about the trolls.

I almost wonder if they're full "adults" while the cave trolls and Mordor/Isengard trolls are "juveniles"?

 Da Boss wrote:
The thing that gets me about the Trolls isn't the price, it's the massive scale difference with the LOTR trolls. I would have thought Will, Bert and Tom would have been closer in size to a cave troll, but they're waaaaay bigger. Also not wild about the huge stylistic differences between the goblins and the previous moria goblins, which while monopose are really nice.

To be fair, Misty Mountains goblins are completely different from Moria Goblins. Different tribe and breed, and I guess they're different in the film as well.

nold wrote:

 Auxellion wrote:
Isn't the White Coucil $75 for 4 Figure sized Finecast models? lol

Even so, I don't think thats too unreasonable. 4 Characters@ 18 or so each. Like I said earlier, most characters, especially fine cast are around 15-25 each

It is completely unreasonable.

Because it follows the trend estabilished by earlier releases does not make it reasonably priced. Characters should not cost 25 USD.

75 divided by 4 is not 25, it's 18.5. That's about £11. I regard that as reasonable for a single highly-detailed model.

If you don't, don't buy it. If we all made a post every time we decided *not* to do something, dakka would be a mess.

nold wrote:

 Auxellion wrote:
Isn't the White Coucil $75 for 4 Figure sized Finecast models? lol

Even so, I don't think thats too unreasonable. 4 Characters@ 18 or so each. Like I said earlier, most characters, especially fine cast are around 15-25 each

Im not one to moan about the prices, but they are definitely too steep in my eyes, I reckon a figure should be about 12-15 tops.. you certainly shouldn't be charging over 60 bucks for those.. as has been said, maybe the licence costs them a gak load or something, because this line of LOTR stuff seems to be at the head of an already pretty steep curve.

Like, DV was good value at $89... how can they shift that at a profit, but then sell 4 lone figures for almost the same price? It does seem a tad high, and as I said, considering boozing is my number one hobby, Im very loathe to moan about GW prices when you get literally decades of use out of a mini.

 Testify wrote:
75 divided by 4 is not 25, it's 18.5. That's about £11. I regard that as reasonable for a single highly-detailed model.

If you don't, don't buy it. If we all made a post every time we decided *not* to do something, dakka would be a mess.

£11 is a lot for a single piece human sized figure. There nothing particularly complex, they are fairly average figures. £11 is well above the prices are for such things from other manufacturers. Were they not LOTR GW figures they would be much less in most ranges, fantasy figures such as these wouldn't get a second look at these prices from most companies. Some of the high cost is due to the cost if the licence, but a lot is due to GW squeezing for as much as they think the market can bear. You're paying for the Hobbit and GW brands, not because the figures are particularly outstanding.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Testify wrote:
75 divided by 4 is not 25, it's 18.5. That's about £11. I regard that as reasonable for a single highly-detailed model.

If you don't, don't buy it. If we all made a post every time we decided *not* to do something, dakka would be a mess.

£11 is a lot for a single piece human sized figure. There nothing particularly complex, they are fairly average figures. £11 is well above the prices are for such things from other manufacturers. Were they not LOTR GW figures they would be much less in most ranges, fantasy figures such as these wouldn't get a second look at these prices from most companies. Some of the high cost is due to the cost if the licence, but a lot is due to GW squeezing for as much as they think the market can bear. You're paying for the Hobbit and GW brands, not because the figures are particularly outstanding.

It's worth noting that this is speculation.

For all we know, the high cost could solely be due to licensing and rights for the actors' likenesses.

Well the high cost of all their product range including scenery would not seem to support the use of actor's likenesses as a significant factor, which leaves the licencing and whatever GW are doing.

I don't think the models are bad, and the game is pretty fun... but the thing about this game is only one person needs to buy it in any given group. Every player doesn't need his own set of dinner trolls or bilbos...

I would say the market is for a mini collector who likes LOTR to buy it, paint it then show up and say 'hey friends, I have a new game, play with my toys'.

I have games I do that with... I buy the game, paint the minis and then we play where evryone uses my Minis. It isn't a wargame where every player needs his own army for the most part.

I don't think these models are particularly bad, I have painted some LotR models and they are hard to paint IMHO so I don't paint them. But they sure look like the movie designs. I know of plenty of Mini makers who make worse looking models which cost way more so the price doesn't disturb me if it was a model I was interested in owning.

I guess it is, "if you like it, buy it... if not, don't."

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Testify wrote:
75 divided by 4 is not 25, it's 18.5. That's about £11. I regard that as reasonable for a single highly-detailed model.

If you don't, don't buy it. If we all made a post every time we decided *not* to do something, dakka would be a mess.

£11 is a lot for a single piece human sized figure. There nothing particularly complex, they are fairly average figures. £11 is well above the prices are for such things from other manufacturers. Were they not LOTR GW figures they would be much less in most ranges, fantasy figures such as these wouldn't get a second look at these prices from most companies. Some of the high cost is due to the cost if the licence, but a lot is due to GW squeezing for as much as they think the market can bear. You're paying for the Hobbit and GW brands, not because the figures are particularly outstanding.

Bare in mind that these things *are* collectables. The Hobbit is a book written by the single greatest fantasy author of all time, and as a series of films are a follow up to the greatest film series ever made. In 50 or 100 years time, people may not have heard of Space Marines or the Imperium of Man, but they will have heard of the Hobbit.

 Testify wrote:
The Hobbit is a book written by the single greatest fantasy author of all time, ...

No, the Hobbit was written by Tolkein. Terry Pratchett came along later.

 Testify wrote:

Bare in mind that these things *are* collectables.

True. They've better make sure the finecast doesn't let down then because collectors are picky about getting damaged goods.

lotr is the only game GW makes i still like, i will buy this set if it is still around come mid february, i dont see it vanishing before that anyways

 insaniak wrote:

 Testify wrote:
The Hobbit is a book written by the single greatest fantasy author of all time, ...

No, the Hobbit was written by Tolkein. Terry Pratchett came along later.

+1, noone learns to become a writer by way of Tolkein's style with overly long and descriptive writing. He created 4 great books with its own history but as an author he's terrible.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


LotR and Hobbit are clearly not evergreens like Star Wars or Spiderman.

You trolling us Kid kyoto? Lord of the Rings in whatever form makes Star Wars look small. Admittedly its just about the only thing that does outside of a major sport or religion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrwhoop wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Testify wrote:
The Hobbit is a book written by the single greatest fantasy author of all time, ...

No, the Hobbit was written by Tolkein. Terry Pratchett came along later.

+1, noone learns to become a writer by way of Tolkein's style with overly long and descriptive writing. He created 4 great books with its own history but as an author he's terrible.

Heresy!

Testify has it right.

If people cannot fathom Tolkien as written it is because the English language has devolved since the 50's, and if its overly long its because attention spans have largely declined in most English speaking cultures.

The Lord of the Rings was not written for the internet age. Linguistically it is as near perfect as can be found and the descriptions have a matchless fluidity to them.

 Ozymandias wrote:
There's really no way to know that, PP isn't a publicly traded company and I don't even think GW releases that detailed sales info.

Actually, there is, as unlike GW, PP isn't a distributor. The only thing that won't be accessible is their direct sales for parts and exclusives from the online store.

In fact, ICv2 keeps track of all that by directly contacting distributors and select stores. Note, they don't give out the exact numbers for the sales, only who's where.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/22215.html

Q4 2011:

1. Warhammer 40k

Games Workshop

2. Warmachine

Privateer Press

3. Warhammer Fantasy

Games Workshop

4. Hordes

Privateer Press

5. Malifaux

Wyrd Miniatures

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23501.html

Spring 2012:

1. 40K
2. Warmachine
3. WHFB
4. Hordes
5. Malifaux

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24225.html

Summer 2012:

1. 40K
2. Warmachine
3. WHFB
4. Hordes
5. Malifaux

It's been those 4 on top in that order(only in the year that Hordes was released did it hit #3, beating out Fantasy) for nigh on 5- 6 years. I don't see it changing for a while, either.

Does the ICv2 figures factor in the GW direct distribution?

 notprop wrote:
Does the ICv2 figures factor in the GW direct distribution?

I believe so, they do contact GW.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Does the ICv2 figures factor in the GW direct distribution?

I believe so, they do contact GW.

Is it worldwide sales or just US? I've been leery of tracking sites like this, since most of them only track one region.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Does the ICv2 figures factor in the GW direct distribution?

I believe so, they do contact GW.

Is it worldwide sales or just US? I've been leery of tracking sites like this, since most of them only track one region.

ICv2 is North America.

It's hard to take it as a definitive source then. Popular game are different not only by country, but by state and even city. I realise North America has a lot of gamers, but the rest of the world has more, and Privateer Press is bound to be more popular in North America because it's exactly the customer base it caters to.

 Orlanth wrote:
If people cannot fathom Tolkien as written it is because the English language has devolved since the 50's, and if its overly long its because attention spans have largely declined in most English speaking cultures.

My attention span is just fine, as is my English comprehension.

The problem is waffle. There's far too much of it. I don't need to know the history of every single stone that the Fellowship manages to step on during their journey. And when you get to the end of the story, and the good guys have won, and all the exciting stuff is finished... that's the time to stop writing. You don't write another 15 chapters waffling on about everything that happened afterwards, unless your intention actually is to ensure that people just don't bother reading all the way to the end of the book more than once.

Don't get me wrong, I love the LOTR series. And as the precursor to much of today's contemporary fantasy it's an impressive piece of work. But what Tolkein wrote was half fantasy epic and half 'history' textbook. Which is fine if you like reading textbooks of fantasy history... but keeps him a fair way away from the 'greatest ever fantasy writer' spot in my book...

I wouldn't put any of the GW LOTR/Hobbit products in the "Collectible" field.

A. You must paint them yourself. (Affects value and collectibility)
B. They will never increase in value.

So they don't sit in a collectors market. The toys do, the board games do, but things like the GW brand ones do not. They would need to be pre-painted and/or of a limited run to get into that market. In 10 years time the Mines of Moria set won't be making the same financial return as the 3rd ed. Space Hulk. Just the same no one will pay high rates to get a Dark Vengeance or the Hobbit set. The single limited miniature is the only part of those sets which has a Limited factor resulting in a collectible nature. If GW releases them on their own at any point though, their value plummets to nothing.

GW also skip out on hitting that area because their miniatures are not high class assembled, or better said, substandard. Its a pretty cheap plastic or resin they use and constantly has problems. If it was 1 bad mini in every 1-5-10,000 then it strikes into the rare side of the market and warrants the collectible status. But they sit in a much smaller market, in some cases 1 good cast in every 10. 1 great one in every 1000 and that doesn't go into the public.

I doubt the license has anything to do with it. All GW products are highly over-priced. Its like the housing market here. A House is valued at $500,000 but the owner wants 1 million. Sooner or later someone will come along and buy it at the owners preferred price as long as certain factors remained in place. GW has a good share of the market with little threat by anyone other than perhaps Privateer Press. They can afford to shaft us because sooner or later you will break down and pay what they want because there is no one else who makes their minis, or as has been noted, they deny you the use of other lines in their operated areas. Nothing to do with your cheaper stuff affecting their sales, its about you being denied until you crack and cave into their desires. Most people will crack and give in.
Keeping the prices high means newbies come in thinking they got in at the "good" time, the price will just increase further. Whenever you start, or started, that is when the price was the best and will always be the best in the available time frame you had. Unless you have a time machine... Which obviously you will keep secret... Stockpiling all the good stuff and living like a Lord of the Games.

 insaniak wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
If people cannot fathom Tolkien as written it is because the English language has devolved since the 50's, and if its overly long its because attention spans have largely declined in most English speaking cultures.

My attention span is just fine, as is my English comprehension.

The problem is waffle. There's far too much of it. I don't need to know the history of every single stone that the Fellowship manages to step on during their journey. And when you get to the end of the story, and the good guys have won, and all the exciting stuff is finished... that's the time to stop writing. You don't write another 15 chapters waffling on about everything that happened afterwards, unless your intention actually is to ensure that people just don't bother reading all the way to the end of the book more than once.

Don't get me wrong, I love the LOTR series. And as the precursor to much of today's contemporary fantasy it's an impressive piece of work. But what Tolkein wrote was half fantasy epic and half 'history' textbook. Which is fine if you like reading textbooks of fantasy history... but keeps him a fair way away from the 'greatest ever fantasy writer' spot in my book...

This.

Beat me to the punch there Insaniak.

I love the films a lot more than the books, but how did Randall so crudely and eloquently put it in Clerks 2?
"If Peter Jackson wanted to blow me away with those 'Rings movies he would have ended the third one on the logical closure point, not the 25 endings that followed"
"When fething Frito wakes up from his little coma or whatever and all his Hobbit friends are jumping up and down on his bed and Sam leans in the doorway and gives him that very fething gay look."