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Made in id
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Kain wrote:
I still have yet to see a reason to take any 1k sons in my typical comp list which, is usually a variation of this list adjusted to the points value, usually by shaving off units or slots when the points are too tight or adding more in Double FoC games.

Juggerlord
Typhus

Termicide (MoN)
Termicide (MoN)
Termicide (MoN)

(Termies may be traded out for Contemptor dreads or Decimator Daemon Engines)

Plague Marines (Either melta, flamer, or plasma, always with a rhino)
Plague Marines (Either melta, flamer, or plasma, always with a rhino)
Plague Marines (Either melta, flamer, or plasma, always with a rhino)
Plague Marines (Either melta, flamer, or plasma, always with a rhino)
Plague zombies for backfield camping
Plague zombies for backfield camping

Heldrake of nurgle
Heldrake of nurgle
Heldrake of nurgle

(Sometimes swapped out for Spawn or Bikers of Nurgle)

Obliterator of nurgle
Obliterator of nurgle
Obliterator of nurgle

(Sometimes swapped out for Predators, land raiders, or vindicators)

Allies:

CCS

Stormicide (most rarely taken)

Guard platoon with lots of heavy weapons
Guard platoon with lots of heavy weapons

Vendetta

Colossus battery/Leman Russ squadron/Manticore/Basilisk battery/Medusa battery

Fortification of my choice: but the Aegis usually seems to be the most versatile.

Obviously in smaller games I wouldn't be able to fill as many slots as I want to, but generally my lists will be some variation of this unless I'm feeling in a daemonic mood or want to bring out the terribad Renegades and Heretics forge world list.

Between the Guard backfield lascannon spam, Oblit fire, and plasma spamming Plague marines, and the Heldrakes I think I can kill Marines plenty good.
Still waiting to see someone convince me to put in a sorcerer of Tzeentch instead of typhus and 1k sons instead of plaguemrines.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Don't wait too long.

Take the units you want. They do different things. So if you wanna play plague Marines, play them. Here's an article for that also:

http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/03/6th-edition-chaos-space-marine-cults.html

Its all about making whatever you're using work. What you use is less important than HOW even though they both matter.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Jancoran wrote:
I dont THINK anyone is claiming that Thousand Sons dont have a problem. I certainly didn't say that.

What I said was they have plus's. Which is also true. I can spend all day worrying about what can't be done, but I'd fire my employees if they did that.

So here's the thing: they can and are winning in the right hands. So learn how. What I dislike is the silly assertion that you cant win tournies with them. makes me want to go shopping right the hell now and win the next tourney JUST to post the damn battle reports with a big fat title on the post that says :

"GENERALS MATTER".



Moving the goalposts much? If you're good enough to win with Thousand Sons you'd probably win even more with Plague Marines or Noise Marines. The entire point of everyone telling you how Thousand Sons suck is to point out how there's much better units in the CSM Codex. We've not been saying it's impossible to win with TS, we've been saying how an "optimised" list with TS would inherently be worse than an optimised list with Plague Marines or Noise Marines.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Screeching Screamer of Tzeentch






The good, the bad and the just plain lame.

This is a breakdown of thousand sons rubric marines by a veteran chaos player.

*List price, 150 for 5 models. Now to put this in perspective as a chaos player I now have access to some very cheep minions. These new minions are Chaos Cultists and cost 50 for 10 models. I can get 30 models for the price of five rubrics. If I want to hold an objective I will use the 30 cultists, not 5 marines.
If I’m not planning on using rubrics to hold objectives then I am using them to kill things. So for 150 what do we have? Well I can get 5 Chosen and 4 plasma guns for 150. So that’s 5 rubrics vs. 5 chosen with 4 plasmas. Personally I would just pay 20 more points and get a Heldrake.

Well that’s not an impressive start; for their points, they can’t hold objectives as well as 30 cultists and they can’t kill things as well as 5 chosen with 4 plasma guns (or a Heldrake). So lets up point cost, perhaps we need to spend big to get big.

10 rubrics with a banner and a rhino with a havoc launcher and soul blaze comes to 337. Let’s be honest, that’s a lot of points. Can the unit live up to its cost? 10 Chaos Space Marines fully kitted out with ccw, bolters, vets, plasma gun, Lascannon, power weapon, and rhino with dozer, havoc, blaze comes to 275. That is a difference of 62 points. Both units are semi mobile, both are effective against infantry, both are relatively survivable and both will last a while in assault. Rubrics have no heavy weapon, the csm do. Outside of their respective transports the rubrics will be moving 6” at most, the csm will be able to move a maximum of 6” plus run. In a game that is won or lost in the movement phase, mobility is the key to victory. Even a couple of extra inches can make a big difference when you are making a last dash for the relic. When your unit is 7” away from claiming or contesting an objective on the bottom of turn 5 it is very important that your unit can run that extra inch.
My point being that a kitted out csm squad will perform very similarly to the rubric squad, so why not use those beautiful models as baseline csm?

Maybe you are addicted to their invulnerable save. After all, Heldrakes are running rampant everywhere and getting a save against them makes them a lot less scary. And lets not forget all of those new elder “rending” small arms. It’s a nice feeling to have that invulnerable save no matter what is thrown your way. But then again, why would the Heldrake be going for your rubrics? I cant see using a 337 point unit to cower on an objective and rubrics are getting saves against the bale flamer so overall I would think they would be low on the hit list.

Rubrics should be killing things when they have a point cost this heavy so they should be going after contemporary targets of opportunity. Units that are going for the kill should, in general be expendable. They should also be capable of putting pressure on your opponent. 337 points is not very expendable, but the rubrics should always be able to find a reasonable target to at least put pressure on. That being said there are far better choices for much cheaper than the rubrics. They are too expensive and slow to be troops, and they are too expensive and slow to be a reliable killing unit.

*That is enough about points, lets move on two equipment and special rules.
1. no grenades: while not that bad because they are not an assault unit, you will need to assault on occasion and not having basic grenades hurts more often than not. And you will never get to experience the thrill of throwing a frag or krack grenade.
2. bolter with ap3: This is always good as long as you are shooting at anything with at least a 4+ save. But I cant help noticing that this isn’t as cool as it was last edition (we will come to the reason for that very soon). I think this should have been a storm bolter with ap3. And there should have been some form of heavy weapon to complement the lack of anti tank (A random roll on a power chart doesn’t count as far as I am concerned).
3. Slow and purposeful: This I just don’t get at all. Why didn’t they just give them relentless, Or storm bolters with ap3? Last edition this was cool because you could move and shoot at full range. Well that is old news, everyone does that now and they don’t need relentless or slow and purposeful to do it. The only benefit it grants is the ability to charge after shooting with rapid fire and heavy weapons (that they don’t have). And in a unit that isn’t designed for assault that just doesn’t make any logical sense.

*Left behind…That is how I feel. My beautiful, hardworking, game winning rubrics have been left behind by the author of this new book. I have taken this personally. I find it difficult to play an army that has been so blatantly over looked and forgotten. I put it to you that The thousand sons were the only cult troops in the book to be down graded while retaining their cost. At least the berserkers (who also did not fair to well with the update) are still usable and have fancy new ap4 weapons along with a point decrease.
I was so upset about what they did (or rather didn’t do) to my army that I quit chaos all together and reorganized my marines as vanilla space marines. With combat tactics I have turned 30 very stupid rubrics in to killing machines capable of taking on any form of adversary and coming out on top. My Thousand Sons have been reborn! We will never forgive and never forget how the gods of chaos have abandoned us! Death to the changer of the ways! First we were betrayed by the emperor, then we were betrayed by the warmaster Horus, Now the final betrayal has come and it is at the hands of Tzeentch himself. NONE SHALL STAY MY WRATH! My marines are out for blood.

1850 12W-2L
1750 ?W-?L (about 50-50)
 
   
 
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