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I wont disagree, you really need to have 15+ bodies in range of a priest for the math to work out. I often do drop lists etc with Corbulo and crew so spacing isnt the biggest issue if I can bring proper weight of fire to bear.

I really hope they discount JP's for all the solo characters in our next edition.

My last game with Corbs in a pod, they ate Riptide interception STR 8 AP 2 We played like 15 more minutes then went to Five Guys, as it was a better use of time.

It's gonna take more than cheap jump packs for BA.

How about a giant sanguinary guard with t7 w7 s7 super jumppacks and shoots baal predators out of its wrist mounted super bolters... and a DC version of it... yea... I can see GW doing that.

Or a way for JP to avoid interceptor...

or a million things...

but really riptide interception at str 8 ap2 would ruin any MEQ's day.

don't see the jump pack discount coming it is still 15 points for Chaos SM, and Dark Angels. Raptors are still 17 points each, and DA assault marines are as well.

So if we assume similar the discout will be on the characters themselves not the jump pack (65 point libby with 15 point pack, so 80 points, or 115 with Level 2).

Also assault squads will be 170 for 10 marines, instead of 190.

No, I'd rather specifically avoid an overpowered codex myself.

I'm not sure there's really a way to address the current meta with the way GW has designed this game and the way the Eldar and Tau codices read.

Marines are paying (rightly) for close combat prowess that basically means nothing in this edition.

Well, it does have a little meaning, but marines themselves suffer from the same thing as a lot of units in marine books. Lots of bells and whistles.

You have 4s accross the board for stats and a good save. But if all you want to do is shoot, you don't really need high initiative or Strength. 3+ saves are decent, but when you pay twice as much as other models it really lowers your damage output.

What I would like to see is Blood Angels assault marines be able to take bolters. They would be an excelent unit if they had a 24" gun with rapid fire.

Assault Marines with bolters would make me smile. Just a flat point reduction across the board and maybe some special tactics to work around interception and overwatch.

Somehow, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Although I must ask why would bolters be so great? The boltgun is not that great of a weapon to begin with.

The bolter in 6th ed is a good weapon, so giving a squad essentially a 36" range bolter shot, or 24" range rapid fire is pretty good. Essentially what I feel makes Assault marines bad right now is that they can do nothing (unless they take plasma guns) from beyond 12" which means they are always getting rapid fired if they want to do damage.

I'm not saying they would be OMG totally OP, but they would be a moble troop with decent shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree though that it won't happen. I would run Death Company like that if they were not over 30 points per model.

Increased threat range over the bolt pistol by 12", double the firepower at the same range... because sometimes punching stuff is just going to get us killed faster.

Oh and double the chance at over-watch, its a small change but the option for it allows for some greater versatility.

That and you would see more double plas-bolt gun assault troops, rapid fire things to death and run away to do it again. Not very BA's lore style of combat but a fun tactic.



* I am a fan of DC with boltguns if I ever run them. Relentless with rapid fire is a nice small advantage in 6th.

I think the issue in seeing their use lies with seeing them as Assault Marines without combat weapons. When really, their use would be best viewed as Tactical Marines with extra speed. This I could get behind, BUT I fear the unit would end up costing too much to be useful. It also just doesn't seem right for the fluff.

hazal wrote:How about a giant sanguinary guard with t7 w7 s7 super jumppacks and shoots deep-striking Land Raiders out of its wrist mounted super bolters...

Mecha-Sanguiknightnor! You saw it here first. Also, a slight adjustment.

While the DA have some nice fluffy stuff for their Assault Marines, they are largely useless when compared to the versatility of the standard Tactical Marine Squad. The basic problem is that ASM are too lackluster in five-man squads to be effective, and taking ten-man squads is too costly. The cost does need to be reduced, but that's minor compared to the more pressing issue of their basic damage output. If it were up to me (which it most certainly isn't) I would try to find a way of merging the basic troop choices with the Fast Attack & Elite counterparts. Given the wargear versatility of other models in other armies, there is no reason that Sterngaurd Veterans should be a seperate unit from Tactical Marines. Likewise there is no reason why Vanguard Veterans should be different than Assault Marines.

The variance in point cost on the wargear should be sufficient to stem any gross abuse. This is especially true for the DA, whose idea of a wargear upgrade is a +2S sword with unweildy. Really? Why in the hell would you not just buy a damned power fist if you going to strike at I1? But I digress.

For now, the best way to play a list with lots of Marines is to take six squads of ten marines, broken into Combat Squads. Six of the Squads should be given a Razorback with wither a Heavy Bolter or an Assault Cannon (whichever your codex allows). Since each squad of 10 men gets an assault weapon and a heavy weapon, make sure to put the six squads with assault weaopons in the razordbacks, leaving the sqauds with heavy weapons (should be Heavy Bolters / Plasma / ML) take care of the rear (or man a Aegis). In this list you have the maximum mobility with your scoring units, and they can focus or split their fire as needed.

Alternatively, if split fire is less ordinate, you could just take all six squads at full strength without splitting into Combat Squads, and give each squad a Drop Pod with a ML.

With the way GW has worked 6e and assaults, the normal assault unit is just worthless. Would be absolutely PHENOMENAL if they decided to make Drop Pods into assault vehicles so that ASM could assault out of them on arrival (then you could just take them without jump packs).

They would need to revise other rules not make the assaut vehciles, they are already open topped so they would be able to assault out if they had not just arrived from reserves.

I.e. a land raider is an assaut vehicle if a BA player deepstrikes one they guys inside still cannot assault.

Nice I like the idea of facing just 63 Assault Marines...would be a fun and interesting fight ..for the Green tide ..might even be fun and interesting for the Marine Player..that being said the poor Marines will be out numbered 3 to 1..I see one method of the Assault Marines possibly winning but it means never being in assault range of the Orks ..ever ..

1750
HQ
Big Mek/SAG,ammo runt,BP
Big Mek/SAG,ammo runt,BP
Elite
10 Lootas
10 Lootas
Troops
30 Shoota Boyz,Nob,BS,BP
30 Shoota Boyz,Nob,BS,BP
30 Shoota Boyz,Nob,BS,BP
30 Shoota Boyz,Nob,BS,BP
10 Gretchin + RH (on ADL)
15 Gretchin + RH
Heavy
3 Kannon,6 extra Grotz, 3 Ammo runt (Sag)
3 Kannon,6 extra Grotz, 3 Ammo runt (Sag)
3 Kannon,5 extra Grotz
Fort
ADl + Quad
at 2000 I would Drop the 15 Grots for another unit of 30 boyz and Change the Lootas to 3 Groups of 9 ..still going to give the Beakies a hard go ..

Oooh I got it 2 wound sanguinor models with centurion weapon options... BOOOM codex fixed.


And mehpiston can fly.

 hazal wrote:
And mehpiston can fly.

Make him a FMC, that way he also hits at AP2 and we have all his problems fixed!

But to keep this on topic: How about combat squads?
Do we want to keep groups of 10, or do we want to split the "non-IC"-groups into smaller parts.

Pro's:
-Easier to manoeuvre
-Easier to keep alive against VoF.
-Better to attack multiple units.
-Seems better to 'fill in gaps' in your advance.
-Works better if you want to ignore a challenge.
-Automatic "split fire"-option, whereas with 10 ASM you have to pick between shooting a vehicle or assaulting a unit.

What are the downside to this?
It would work like this:
10 ASM + priest + librarian
10 ASM + priest
10 ASM + priest
6x 5 ASM with the melta's in the same groups.

And would you put the Sergeant in the assault groups or in the melta-groups?