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I knew I was missing something. I couldn't see what the hype was about before...but still mech guard are my other army so bring on the immobilizations to my stationary leman russes! At least plasma guns can easily pop me from the rear

It all comes down to how they clarify the rules for grav guns, that is, whether 2 rolls of a 6 cause 3 hull points of damage. If this is the case, then grav guns will be able to pop LR tanks from the front, 18 inches out, fairly efficiently.

I'm hoping grav guns get added to the DA dex in a later update, as this really shouldn't be a selling point of one chapter over another.

I feel DA will grow into 6th as the remaining books are updated.

I hoped this around the same time last year....then cover ignoring tau, and then updated eldar hit the selves, and I lost all hope.

I should clarify my position on the Ravewnwing. I think they are competitive. Even with tau and eldar lists in the meta, they can still be competitive.
However I expect in the future that there will be a shift in bike tournament players, from using DA, to using C:SM, as I believe they're overall the more competitive list.

It all comes down to how they clarify the rules for grav guns, that is, whether 2 rolls of a 6 cause 3 hull points of damage. If this is the case, then grav guns will be able to pop LR tanks from the front, 18 inches out, fairly efficiently.

I had to re-read the rules to understand how it could possibly be 3 hull points but now...Immobilization clearly states an extra hull point but the codex states it loses only a single hull point, which you wouldn't emphasize unless there exists a situation for more than one. Ambiguity reigns!

By RAW, it's actually pretty clear that the grav gun on the first hit will cause immobilization and a hull point. The second hit does the same thing. When you go to look up a second immobilization result, that's when you lose the additional hull point. It's a CRB rule, not a grav gun rule.

The whole cover thing with vehicles is a little more sketchy I think.

This is how I feel.

I started playing around a year ago and I split the DV box with my friend, he went Tau (and now I know why. He has an incredibly Crisis suit OP list, and the expansion made it even more OP). I sold my CSM off to buy more DA. I know have close to 2000 pts of DA and I get rofl stomped anytime I try and play. The only way I can see as viable is to do a straight DW build but you gotta drop like, 500-600 bucks and even then you will buy like two command squads and two land raiders.

The only models that are powerful and useful for DA are 60-70 bucks. It's nuts.

I'm ready to switch to Eldar and just sell all my gak off. It sucks. I love DA, the lore is incredible, but they are so weak comparatively.

DA have a number of problems that exist outside the scope of the RW.

The moment their codex was released it had major flaws that were crippling when compared to the C:SM of that time (5e). It's even more lackluster when compared to the current C:SM.

Overall the DA are lacking in tactically viable wargear options for troops & Elites. Their HQs have access to perfectly legitimate wargear.
Both DA Flyers are laughably useless and expensive.
DA sergeants have a major handicap since their codex replaced the Relic Blade with the Blade of Caliban - which is basically a Power Fist with a weaker bonus to S
They have no way to deal with Enemy Flyers.

I'm ready to switch to Eldar and just sell all my gak off. It sucks. I love DA, the lore is incredible, but they are so weak comparatively.

Have you thought that Dark Angels have ever been strong? I think they are a heck of a lot more competitive than that utter rubbish that was the 4th edition codex. DA have always been C:SM Hard mode. Even in 3rd edition they were inferior to regular marines. You paid a 10 point premium for both ravenwing and deathwing just to get skilled rider and fearless respectively. I have seen the slow march of Dark angels towards competitiveness, and I actually think we have almost made it

JohnRonald1 wrote:

This is how I feel.

I started playing around a year ago and I split the DV box with my friend, he went Tau (and now I know why. He has an incredibly Crisis suit OP list, and the expansion made it even more OP). I sold my CSM off to buy more DA. I know have close to 2000 pts of DA and I get rofl stomped anytime I try and play. The only way I can see as viable is to do a straight DW build but you gotta drop like, 500-600 bucks and even then you will buy like two command squads and two land raiders.

The only models that are powerful and useful for DA are 60-70 bucks. It's nuts.

I'm ready to switch to Eldar and just sell all my gak off. It sucks. I love DA, the lore is incredible, but they are so weak comparatively.

I wouldn't do that. One of the big advantages of marines armies is that they can represent any chapter, just use your DA models and use the new codex Space Marines.
It will make you much more competitive in an instant.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

JohnRonald1 wrote:

This is how I feel.

I started playing around a year ago and I split the DV box with my friend, he went Tau (and now I know why. He has an incredibly Crisis suit OP list, and the expansion made it even more OP). I sold my CSM off to buy more DA. I know have close to 2000 pts of DA and I get rofl stomped anytime I try and play. The only way I can see as viable is to do a straight DW build but you gotta drop like, 500-600 bucks and even then you will buy like two command squads and two land raiders.

The only models that are powerful and useful for DA are 60-70 bucks. It's nuts.

I'm ready to switch to Eldar and just sell all my gak off. It sucks. I love DA, the lore is incredible, but they are so weak comparatively.

I wouldn't do that. One of the big advantages of marines armies is that they can represent any chapter, just use your DA models and use the new codex Space Marines.
It will make you much more competitive in an instant.

Heresy. Submit yourself for re-processing.

Codex DA isn't any less competitive than Codex:SM, they suffer from the same weaknesses.

Hey Asmodai Asmodean, that's a really impressive record with your bike list, can you give us some recommendations for a competitve list that involves deathwing?

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

JohnRonald1 wrote:

This is how I feel.

I started playing around a year ago and I split the DV box with my friend, he went Tau (and now I know why. He has an incredibly Crisis suit OP list, and the expansion made it even more OP). I sold my CSM off to buy more DA. I know have close to 2000 pts of DA and I get rofl stomped anytime I try and play. The only way I can see as viable is to do a straight DW build but you gotta drop like, 500-600 bucks and even then you will buy like two command squads and two land raiders.

The only models that are powerful and useful for DA are 60-70 bucks. It's nuts.

I'm ready to switch to Eldar and just sell all my gak off. It sucks. I love DA, the lore is incredible, but they are so weak comparatively.

I wouldn't do that. One of the big advantages of marines armies is that they can represent any chapter, just use your DA models and use the new codex Space Marines.
It will make you much more competitive in an instant.

Heresy. Submit yourself for re-processing.

Codex DA isn't any less competitive than Codex:SM, they suffer from the same weaknesses.

Asmodai, we have talked about bikes on here before, so I guess you are predominately a ravenwing player. And in this regard I agree with you. Ravenwing is the most competitive aspect of DA and could match C:SM. However the regular troops are not as competitive. SM have grav guns, better special rules, efficient anti air and more versatility beyond bolter banner and PFG.

Does anyone wanna tell me how DA is competitive right now? The only lists I can seem to beat are Tyranid, and that's just because I have a shooty list.

JohnRonald1 wrote:

Does anyone wanna tell me how DA is competitive right now? The only lists I can seem to beat are Tyranid, and that's just because I have a shooty list.

Have a look back up this thread, everything has already been said.