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 anonymou5 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:
The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.

You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.

Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.

lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.

It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….

Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>

Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.

In fact, it's worse than that - what they do have is a dispersed nervous system. Not just in the normal insect type way, but in the psychic Hive Mind kind of way. Even if a Flood Infection Form got into, say, a Termagant... the moment that Termagant moved within synapse range, it would be a Tyranid-controlled Flood War Form.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.

In fact, it's worse than that - what they do have is a dispersed nervous system. Not just in the normal insect type way, but in the psychic Hive Mind kind of way. Even if a Flood Infection Form got into, say, a Termagant... the moment that Termagant moved within synapse range, it would be a Tyranid-controlled Flood War Form.

Tyranids...with Flood Powers? Dear God! It would own everything so easily.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.

Having a skeleton has nothing to do with having a nervous system.

And a second because Tyranids have both an exoskeleton and an endoskeleton.

Tyran wrote:
If you only have played the games, then you would be right, but if you have read the novels, then you will know that the Promethean Knights (and the Halos' Sentinels) are actually inferior to any actual Forerunner combat technology. For example, a known Forerunner combat machines are the Onyx Sentinels, this version of the Sentinel is armed with a beam that is incredible powerful (the concentrated fire of a dozen Onyx Sentinels destroyed a mesa in a megaton explosion, and 50 were capable of destroying a Covenant ship) and are relatively expendable (Onyx had at least one factory that built one Onyx Sentinel each 6 seconds) and the planet crust was composed of trillions, maybe even quadrillions of Onyx Sentinels.

Promethean Knights are regarded as competent infantry by Forerunner standards. Being outclassed by Onyx Sentinels (who are, as far as we know, unique) doesn't mean that all Forerunner technology conveniently faced by Master Chief is therefore terrible by their own standards (Also, anything written by Eric Nylund is of dubious accuracy). If they were as powerful as the old races of other settings (like 40k), the minimum power level of even their basic Sentinels would be much higher. Not relatively fragile machines with mediocre beam weapons, that's for sure.

Tyran wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.

Having a skeleton has nothing to do with having a nervous system.

And a second because Tyranids have both an exoskeleton and an endoskeleton.

^ This. I might add that the Flood may not be able to successfully infect Tyranids, as it is highly possible that the Tyranids would simply adapt themselves to be immune to infection. Also, the nervous system is hijacked by the Infection Form - there is no reason why it would fall under the influence of the Hive Mind. Otherwise, Mindshackle Scarabs wouldn't work on Tyranids in Synapse.

EDIT: And yes, I have read many of the Halo novels.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:
The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.

You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.

Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.

lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.

It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….

Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>

The shrike makes the actual chaos gods look like a bunch of pansies. And it's tree is what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity. Hyperion series is so good...but I sincerely hope I never see that movie made.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

Tyran wrote:
If you only have played the games, then you would be right, but if you have read the novels, then you will know that the Promethean Knights (and the Halos' Sentinels) are actually inferior to any actual Forerunner combat technology. For example, a known Forerunner combat machines are the Onyx Sentinels, this version of the Sentinel is armed with a beam that is incredible powerful (the concentrated fire of a dozen Onyx Sentinels destroyed a mesa in a megaton explosion, and 50 were capable of destroying a Covenant ship) and are relatively expendable (Onyx had at least one factory that built one Onyx Sentinel each 6 seconds) and the planet crust was composed of trillions, maybe even quadrillions of Onyx Sentinels.

Promethean Knights are regarded as competent infantry by Forerunner standards. Being outclassed by Onyx Sentinels (who are, as far as we know, unique) doesn't mean that all Forerunner technology conveniently faced by Master Chief is therefore terrible by their own standards (Also, anything written by Eric Nylund is of dubious accuracy). If they were as powerful as the old races of other settings (like 40k), the minimum power level of even their basic Sentinels would be much higher. Not relatively fragile machines with mediocre beam weapons, that's for sure.

Ok, for another example of Forerunner war machines lets take a look at the War Sphinx, their description is very vague, but it is essentially a 10 meters tall mecha that is drooped from orbit and proceeds to annihilate cities and sweep continents. And yet they are considered obsolete when the Forerunner-Flood war started.

I must admit that Forerunner infantry is weak compared with the rest of their war gear, but the truth is that Forerunner military doctrine don't use infantry. They use a combination of cheap expendable swarms and powerful war engines that are capable of leveling the landscape, there is no place for infantry in battles where entire continents are razed to the ground.

Forerunners don't scare me in 40k...now brutes...they fit right in...grav hammers and the bruteshot...not to mention the spiker

I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

Pikmins

 Tyran wrote:
but the truth is that Forerunner military doctrine don't use infantry.

That is an adequate explanation, I suppose.

 ductvader wrote:
what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity.

Not *exactly* true, but naming what it is actually used for would be a pretty big spoiler, so we'll take your explanation of it

 Purifier wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity.

Not *exactly* true, but naming what it is actually used for would be a pretty big spoiler, so we'll take your explanation of it

Yup yup.

 Pouncey wrote:
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:

 Pouncey wrote:
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

I believe anthros exist as mutants on certain Imperial worlds. But they are usually burned/shot/melted as with all who bastardize the holy form of humanity.

Suffer not the furry to live.

 Purifier wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:

Those remind me of the helmets of the Goa'uld.

 ductvader wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:

Those remind me of the helmets of the Goa'uld.

That's because they're both influenced by egyptian imagery.

 Pouncey wrote:
furries

Combined with your avatar...

Stand users from JoJo (feth you bloodthirster, oraoraoraora)
Cybertronians from Transformers
Monsters from Monster Hunter to spice things up.
Umbran Witches and Lumen Sages from Bayonetta.
This is just off the top of my head.

I would like to put a vote in for Krogan from a modeling standpoint.

 carlos13th wrote:
I would like to put a vote in for Krogan from a modeling standpoint.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/117113/frogan-blood-pack-28mm.html

Thanks. They may go well with the Deadzone rebs.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
furries

Combined with your avatar...

I also have art of Pouncey in her anthro dragoness form in Sororitas power armor. : D

But the last time I posted it, there were issues... the thread ended up locked... after a big flame war.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)

Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.

I believe anthros exist as mutants on certain Imperial worlds. But they are usually burned/shot/melted as with all who bastardize the holy form of humanity.

Suffer not the furry to live.

The funny part is that if humanity manages to survive long enough, evolution will change what our species looks like, to the point where eventually we won't recognize people from the 21st century as part of the same species. ^_^

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Monsters from Monster Hunter

A million timed yes. Assuming you are talking about the AWESOME Capcom games, Fatalis, Lao Shan Lung, Ratholas/Rathians. They be awesome.

 Pouncey wrote:

I also have art of Pouncey in her anthro dragoness form in Sororitas power armor. : D

But the last time I posted it, there were issues... the thread ended up locked... after a big flame war.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I was just posturing that your motives behind your suggestion were a bit biased ;p.

 Pouncey wrote:

The funny part is that if humanity manages to survive long enough, evolution will change what our species looks like, to the point where eventually we won't recognize people from the 21st century as part of the same species. ^_^

Hardly. Recognisably human animals are over 50,000 years old, and those ancestors lived in what was effectively the wild (natural selection being a great driving force for change). In our artificial environment, we have no true evolutionary pressure. Almost all forms of mutation are passed on (whether we consider them good or bad) because of medicine. As science develops more, this will only become truer. Even people born with genetic conditions that would have killed them before their tenth birthday two hundred years ago can live perfectly normal lives today. Even sexual selection doesn't really apply to us. Of course, if this situation ever results in serious issues, by that time it will probably be ethically acceptable to eradicate the problem with genetic manipulation (remember, any modifications done to an organism's DNA will be replicated in their offspring). Of course, voluntary genetic manipulation (as in designer babies) may become commonplace, but the result won't be becoming less 'human', it'll be a rise in average attractiveness, intelligence, health, et cetera (qualities we subjectively perceive as positive).

The short version is that the normal model of evolution doesn't effect us as a species living in an artificial environment. Of course, we are evolving, because it is a process of random mutation that will never end, but it is happening at a rate so slow (even by the evolutionary standard) because of our interference (coupled with our long generation time) that we'll likely be extinct by the time we have become unrecognisable to humans from 2013. However, it is entirely possible that we'll get more races, especially when/if we colonise other planets. Nothing as extreme as Ogryn, but something new. Maybe subtle, race-specific bone structures or skin colours. That sort of thing. But not turtle shells and fire breath (although that'd be cool).

Not to mention that in many way we've effectively stopped evolution by superior adaptation.

 ductvader wrote:
Not to mention that in many way we've effectively stopped evolution by superior adaptation.

You confuse evolution with natural selection. Evolution is essentially the idea that organisms are constantly mutating with each generation. This will never stop as long as we keep reproducing. Natural selection, on the other hand, is "survival of the fittest". For example, human populations in Africa were under environmental/evolutionary pressure to develop a resistance to the sun. Those born with such mutations survived better, and therefore reproduced more, passing on the "sun-resist" trait. Eventually, over many generations, the skin of those people darkened. The sun was causing natural selection - in short, anyone with a resistance to it was better at surviving. Note; these examples refer to pre-technological populations.

This raises the question; why aren't all humans dark-skinned, and why are there many variations of dark skin, as surely everyone should just have the darkest possible skin? The answer is no. Darker skin needs more resources (proteins) to maintain. Furthermore, it inhibits the production of Vitamin D (which needs sunlight). So, when a population is not in a detrimental sunlight condition, their skin will lighten.

This does not happen in society. Not because evolution or mutations have stopped, but because of how we deal with these problems. Nobody in the modern world is going to die of vitamin D deficiency. Nobody in the modern world is going to have their lives hindered by the tiny amount of extra protein they require for their skin. While these tiny changes make a huge difference in nature, they are completely inconsequential to us in our artificial environment. Unlike organisms that live in nature, the three core aspects of life (sustenance, shelter, reproduction) are trivial matters to humans in modern society. We suffer not the brutal lives of the wild, where every day is a day where you might starve or be preyed upon by some beast you have no hope of defending yourself against. We worry about taxes, little plastic soldiers, and what sort of shirt to wear. Natural selection has stopped for us, but evolution never will.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Not to mention that in many way we've effectively stopped evolution by superior adaptation.

You confuse evolution with natural selection. Evolution is essentially the idea that organisms are constantly mutating with each generation. This will never stop as long as we keep reproducing. Natural selection, on the other hand, is "survival of the fittest". For example, human populations in Africa were under environmental/evolutionary pressure to develop a resistance to the sun. Those born with such mutations survived better, and therefore reproduced more, passing on the "sun-resist" trait. Eventually, over many generations, the skin of those people darkened. The sun was causing natural selection - in short, anyone with a resistance to it was better at surviving. Note; these examples refer to pre-technological populations.

This raises the question; why aren't all humans dark-skinned, and why are there many variations of dark skin, as surely everyone should just have the darkest possible skin? The answer is no. Darker skin needs more resources (proteins) to maintain. Furthermore, it inhibits the production of Vitamin D (which needs sunlight). So, when a population is not in a detrimental sunlight condition, their skin will lighten.

This does not happen in society. Not because evolution or mutations have stopped, but because of how we deal with these problems. Nobody in the modern world is going to die of vitamin D deficiency. Nobody in the modern world is going to have their lives hindered by the tiny amount of extra protein they require for their skin. While these tiny changes make a huge difference in nature, they are completely inconsequential to us in our artificial environment. Unlike organisms that live in nature, the three core aspects of life (sustenance, shelter, reproduction) are trivial matters to humans in modern society. We suffer not the brutal lives of the wild, where every day is a day where you might starve or be preyed upon by some beast you have no hope of defending yourself against. We worry about taxes, little plastic soldiers, and what sort of shirt to wear. Natural selection has stopped for us, but evolution never will.

Just wanted to say that is a wonderful post. The other big bugbear I come across is teleology. Which is the idea that evolution has a purpose / direction. If we keep discussing evolution, that will be the next one to come up, I bet.

Aw, thank you! I'm sort of a biology student. Sort of meaning that I'm currently unemployed and desperately trying to get a job to raise money to go to university to do genetics. Not doing well so far. Combined with various problems I'm having with my college still (like not giving me any results for my work because they lost half of it -.-), things aren't going so well. This random sharing of information has reminded me that I need to send an email to someone about this issue, so thanks for that!

Anyway, I usually have a lot of difficulty in explaining things. So much so that I got into a huge drama with a teacher because they were convinced that my essay was stolen from a thesis (one of my college issues).

Back on topic; yes, teleology (although I had never heard of the term before, I am all too familiar with the concept) is definitely an enormous bugbear (I am now going to use 'bugbear' in place of 'pet peeve', because I absolutely detest that phrase).

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Aw, thank you! I'm sort of a biology student. Sort of meaning that I'm currently unemployed and desperately trying to get a job to raise money to go to university to do genetics. Not doing well so far. Combined with various problems I'm having with my college still (like not giving me any results for my work because they lost half of it -.-), things aren't going so well. This random sharing of information has reminded me that I need to send an email to someone about this issue, so thanks for that!

Anyway, I usually have a lot of difficulty in explaining things. So much so that I got into a huge drama with a teacher because they were convinced that my essay was stolen from a thesis (one of my college issues).

Back on topic; yes, teleology (although I had never heard of the term before, I am all too familiar with the concept) is definitely an enormous bugbear (I am now going to use 'bugbear' in place of 'pet peeve', because I absolutely detest that phrase).

Sorry to hear about the problems. You come across as fairly well-informed to me. Hopefully so long as you can keep a dialogue open with your college, you'll be able to work things out with them. Genetics is a very promising field and whilst it's hard work to get your start, it's a great destination. Einstein was stuck as a patent clerk for some time. You do get out of it if you stick with it. I had a number of problems with mine also. Was a sucky time.

You're not the only one who is unfamiliar with the term teleology - here's an amusing anecdote (true). A professor of biology stuck a note up in their department admonishing students saying "there was a worrying outbreak of teleology in the department". A number of students and one cleaner, went to their doctor to get checked.

Good luck with the genetics. I want that second heart and the reinforced bone structure!