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What I find almost comically funny is that nearly 12 years ago they did the same thing in 3rd edition. White Dwarf #273, October 2002, when the "3.5" edition Chaos Codex was released, has an article with Andy Chambers and Pete Haines talking about how the original 3rd edition Chaos codex was pretty lackluster (Raptors and Obliterators were both pretty terrible), and Chaos Veterans (now Chosen, I guess?) didn't have enough and needed to have additional options buyable... and the rumors say they're going to allow Chaos Marines to buy extra options.

I can think of no more appropriate quote than: Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They're just options. Look at the Venerable Dread. The damned thing has multiple options for its hull-plates and the face stickin' out of the centre. This is no different.

Well, ovbiously they are just options, it's not like they are getting any rules or anything. It's just that their different imagery are a bit partial towards the different gods, not limited to them...

Looking great. I won't buy one, but i will buy a rules update if they have one that would convert my existing force of crappy dreads into something useful.

Agree with earlier posts that a 5+ invuln, demon rules, and maybe AV 13 front armor would make them worthwhile, that or a few more attacks in melee.

No Knights for You, Helbrutes! Helbrutes and like it!

As awesome as they look I can't help but not really care. Their rules are so crappy that they would be such a waste of money. However, I would also be rightfully pissed if they did what they did to screamers and flamers at the beginning of 6th: "Make them extremely OP for 3 months; just enough time for everybody to buy them and paint them up until an update comes."

A WD article inctroducing God-specific rules would be quite nice actually. Or, dare I say it, Legion-specific rules!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A WD article inctroducing God-specific rules would be quite nice actually. Or, dare I say it, Legion-specific rules!

Shhhhh! You'll jinx it for all us!

Looks like a nice enough kit, will probably grab one

Not much of a player really, anyone care to elaborate as to why a hellbrute is so bad? I mean there fairly comparible to the Dreadnought entry in my Codex Darkangels... looks like a10 poiont difference; 5 point more for chaos one, AND DA one has storm bolter as standard while chaos have to buy the TL boltgun for more points.

sooo.. there 10 points in it... CSM one is crazed, is that worth 5 points more? (or is that what makes it crap?) - 10 points isnt even going to net the DA another man (in any squad) .. or even a lascannon or a missile launcher.

AV12 walkers don't exactly have much staying power (especially ones that occasionally go nuts), and you can better spend the points elsewhere.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
AV12 walkers don't exactly have much staying power (especially ones that occasionally go nuts), and you can better spend the points elsewhere.

ahh I see, by that logic all dreads are terrible then. As I say Im not much of a player, so meh! perhaps GW ought to just fix dreadnoughts in general then rather than just hellbrutes

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A WD article inctroducing God-specific rules would be quite nice actually. Or, dare I say it, Legion-specific rules!

And that would be coming back full circle to the days of Index Astartes

Iron Warriors v2.0: 0-1 Baneblade

Where's Big Pete Haines when you need him?

HairySticks wrote:
ahh I see, by that logic all dreads are terrible then.

And you'd be pretty much right.

Dangit, I just converted three DV brutes. I love these kits and hope they give this treatment to the chosen. However, the brutes really need some legion/god specific rules.

Iron Clads and Soulgrinders sort of work due to a) delivery systems and b) armor 13.

Mauler fiends are used in some lists because they're very fast at 12 inches movement.

Other than that, walkers really don't see the table in any sort of functional list.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Turns out HMBC was right.

That blasted HMBC! Always stealing my thunder!

Ow... I didn't mean to... Sorry ...

HairySticks wrote:
Looks like a nice enough kit, will probably grab one

Not much of a player really, anyone care to elaborate as to why a hellbrute is so bad? I mean there fairly comparible to the Dreadnought entry in my Codex Darkangels... looks like a10 poiont difference; 5 point more for chaos one, AND DA one has storm bolter as standard while chaos have to buy the TL boltgun for more points.

sooo.. there 10 points in it... CSM one is crazed, is that worth 5 points more? (or is that what makes it crap?) - 10 points isnt even going to net the DA another man (in any squad) .. or even a lascannon or a missile launcher.

Dreads are horribly thought out. They want to be a heavy weapons platform and a brawler at the same time, but both roles seldom blend. Add their low armor values and their sluggish pace to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

At least loyalists can take Multimelta/powerfist dreads and put them on drop pods, which makes semi-efficient use of their weapons combo while at the same time ensures that they get where they're needed. Or rifleman dreads with two twin-linked autocannons for cheapish dakka platforms, for Space Marine standards, that is.

They look like great models, but I'm happy with my DV one I picked up for less than 1/4 of what these will cost.

I'd love to see a re-make of the Defiler though, this flesh/metal style would work really well with those.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

At least loyalists can take Multimelta/powerfist dreads and put them on drop pods, which makes semi-efficient use of their weapons combo while at the same time ensures that they get where they're needed. Or rifleman dreads with two twin-linked autocannons for cheapish dakka platforms, for Space Marine standards, that is.

We can do that too, but we don't come in Turn 1 with the Claw...

TyRaide wrote:
They look like great models, but I'm happy with my DV one I picked up for less than 1/4 of what these will cost.

I'd love to see a re-make of the Defiler though, this flesh/metal style would work really well with those.

That's true. The market is so saturated with DV Helbrutes that I would go so far as to say that even a new sculpt would probably not sell well.

There is much truth to that. I picked up my three brutes for 10 dollars.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ow... I didn't mean to... Sorry ...

No, no. No need to blame yourself. HMBC has been a long-standing nemesis of mine at Dakka.

*shakes fist in defiance*

One day HMBC! One day!!!

Now if only there was EVER a reason to use a hellbrute.. or chosen or any model that will get a new model.

I wish GW understood that rules sell models.

 Kirasu wrote:
Now if only there was EVER a reason to use a hellbrute.. or chosen or any model that will get a new model.

I wish GW understood that rules sell models.

Chosen can be used as Chaos Marines at least.

Dreadnoughts are the red-headed stepchild of this edition.

I'd be hard pressed to think of a category of units which are so consistently bad.

Some walkers aren't terrible; Contemptors are pretty good with AV13 and an invuln, along with good weapon options, but points heavy. Soulgrinders and Ironclads have AV13 as well; that extra armour goes a long way when St 7 is the new black. I've seen defilers do well with their invuln, 4 HP and panopoly of weaponry, not amazing, but they don't seem to do terribly.

But the moment you put an AV12 dreadnought with a short range heavy weapon and two attacks on the table, it will die. They can't even tarpit light units, as if they don't have some kind of St6 attack, they just run away, and if they have St6, they'll kill the dreadnought. Only use I've seen for a normal loyalist or Chaos dread is to tie up Tyranid swarms, due to being fearless they can actually tarpit them with some success, punching one or two bugs really hard a turn.

Contemptors present a pretty balanced dread without breaking the fluff, but I don't think there's an easy fix for normal dreadnoughts. Poor armour, poor weaponry, few attacks, and all for the low, low price of, minimum, 100+ points. The power creep has left them in the dust, and I don't see them having a good showing until there's a serious re-write of 40k.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Dreadnoughts are the red-headed stepchild of this edition.

I'd be hard pressed to think of a category of units which are so consistently bad.

Some walkers aren't terrible; Contemptors are pretty good with AV13 and an invuln, along with good weapon options, but points heavy. Soulgrinders and Ironclads have AV13 as well; that extra armour goes a long way when St 7 is the new black. I've seen defilers do well with their invuln, 4 HP and panopoly of weaponry, not amazing, but they don't seem to do terribly.

But the moment you put an AV12 dreadnought with a short range heavy weapon and two attacks on the table, it will die. They can't even tarpit light units, as if they don't have some kind of St6 attack, they just run away, and if they have St6, they'll kill the dreadnought. Only use I've seen for a normal loyalist or Chaos dread is to tie up Tyranid swarms, due to being fearless they can actually tarpit them with some success, punching one or two bugs really hard a turn.

Contemptors present a pretty balanced dread without breaking the fluff, but I don't think there's an easy fix for normal dreadnoughts. Poor armour, poor weaponry, few attacks, and all for the low, low price of, minimum, 100+ points. The power creep has left them in the dust, and I don't see them having a good showing until there's a serious re-write of 40k.

The easy solution is just to make them cheaper: 80, maybe even as low as 70 points barebones. But even then, the main problem is that the elite slot has far better units than them. A MotF helps, but most of the units on the HS slot are also far better than dreads. It would help if you could take like 2-3 per elites slot,

Still doesn't make them worthwhile. T8, W3, 3+ save minimum. That makes them worth while.

Again, not seeing why Dreads are being picked on. My DA (not DW) dreadnought(kitted out with Plasma and power fist) faced down a charging Maulerfiend in CC on his own. I was expecting that confrontation to go down very badly for me lol.

I quite often use 2 Helbrutes.

The cheap extra heavy weapon helps and they work wonderfully well as a counter to the inevitable 15-20 Fleshhounds that run at me.

 Bomster wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Eiríkr wrote:
GW skipping Slaanesh?
Yup, sounds about right.

Don't get your nipples twisted.

If he's a Slaanesh player, I'd pretty much expect him to do exactly that.

You got it! Twist my nipples please pretre.

Didn't see this one linked here yet:

Edit: You cannot host copyrighted images on Dakka (which is what attaching a picture is) without the copyright holder's permission.

Well as a Space marine player I am frankly disgusted.

How come Chaos gets all these lovely new Dreads but Space Marines don't get any love.

We can't buy a plastic Dreadnougt that has the basic options included any more.

Flaming Chaos Marines get all the attention...

That was done in my best sarcastic voice btw.

Even though the Hell Brute is not that great in game there is no denying this is a lovely kit, but where is the Slaaneshi one?