[Necron] New Deathstar rising: Sentry-Star. How does it fare against other competitive D.Stars?

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**Commander_Farsight**

skoffs wrote:
What other types of deathstar are there to factor in?

That it does jack to the Aun'Va star

**Sigvatr**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
skoffs wrote:
What other types of deathstar are there to factor in?
That it does jack to the Aun'Va star

That's where your Nightscythe's Tesla Destructors kick in

**Commander_Farsight**

Sure, but I doubt they will get through a 2+ armor, 5+ FnP, and the Paradox save.

**Sigvatr**

It's your best bet as they completely ignore Paradox (AP -), so basically, you're shooting at terminators. Tesla is the most efficient Necron tool in said case, at least from what I can think of right now.

**Fragile**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
Sure, but I doubt they will get through a 2+ armor, 5+ FnP, and the Paradox save.

Tesla will plow through them just based on sheer number of wounds that it throws out.

**jy2**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
Sure, but I doubt they will get through a 2+ armor, 5+ FnP, and the Paradox save.

Teslas are the best weapon against them as it is AP-. And the typical Necron Pylon-star should also include 2 annihilation barges and 3-4 night scythes, so that is plenty of teslas to go around.

BTW, just FYI, but you cannot join O'vesa to your unit, at least not if you are planning to join other IC's to the unit as well.

**Commander_Farsight**

That's true on the Necron part. But on Tau, your actually incorrect. I'll explain before my revenge today

**skoffs**

Yeah, you're gonna need to explain what you mean, there...
*waits patiently*

**jy2**

Commander_Farsight wrote:
That's true on the Necron part. But on Tau, your actually incorrect. I'll explain before my revenge today

skoffs wrote:
Yeah, you're gonna need to explain what you mean, there...
*waits patiently*

He's talking about a NEW Tau Deathstar revolving around Aun'vi (or the named Ethereal). He has a special rule called Duality of something-or-other that applies to his unit. Basically, it lets the unit ignore shots depending on AP. AP 1 is auto-ignored. AP2 is ignored on a 2+, etc. However, AP- means that he cannot ignore the shot. That is why the FDR does not work against it but that teslas are great against it.

In any case, he piles on as many Tau characters to Aun'vi as possible, including Farsight, Buffmander ally, O'vesa, a named broadside and the kitchen sink as well. Problem is, O'vesa is an MC as well as an IC. He can't join the unit if there are other IC's there (or other IC's cannot join the unit if O'vesa is there).

**col_impact**

Posted this in another thread, pertinent here also . . .

I tend to agree with playing the Death Ray RAW. The rules for it are pretty straightforward and easy to follow.

People fear the Death Ray more than they should. This is understandable because it's underlying mechanic breaks a lot of rules. But, it's more threatening in theory than in reality. Doom Scythes have been around for a while and they haven't wrecked anyone's party. Proper positioning and deployment by the opponent can really make the Death Ray struggle to make its value in points.

I am all for making power level interventions if some unit proves unfair and bad for the game, but not before it proves to be bad and unfair for the game.

The new Sentry Pylon star is one to watch. But there, it's more that you have a deep-striking every turn relentless artillery unit that can't get locked in combat than the fact that its touting a Death Ray. If that Sentry Pyon star proved a problem it would probably be better to nerf its insane mobility (by rolling back to 6th edition which prevented artillery from getting relentless) than adding rules from out of the blue to fashion a Death Ray that bears little semblance. Other Deathstars pack centurions or broadsides which accomplish effectively the same thing as the Death Ray in damage output.

**Sigvatr**

The FDR is miles ahead of the damage zone of similar deathstars vs. average armies. Against armies with very models, however, its damage starts to quickly fall off and you have to use some really weird ways to improve its damage again, e.g. by sacrificing your own units.

It has one of the highest damage outputs in the game, but can be countered by decent opponents familiar with it.

**skoffs**

I'd like to see it go up against a competitive army run by a competent general, just to see what happens.

**Galorian**

My sentrystar has grown so far it's even started sparking little sh*tstorms of its own...

I'm so proud!

**jy2**

I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

BTW, we played it the non-cheesy way with each unit hit counting only by models in the unit, not by total overall models underneath the line.

**col_impact**

jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

BTW, we played it the non-cheesy way with each unit hit counting only by models in the unit, not by total overall models underneath the line.

Why did you play it the non-cheesy way? There is zero ambiguity in the RAW so this means you basically modified the rules out of a sense of fairness and played it that way (HYWPI). I would think there was plenty of Gouda in that Elder list to balance out your Cheddar anyway. So yeah, playing it HYWPI meant that you weren't able to kill those Wraithknights that were in assault range and that overall the Sentry Star is very weak against MC.

It's handy to know how the Sentry Star performs with your fairness edits, but its overall more beneficial to know how it performs RAW, in order to see among other things, if fairness edits are even required.

**Sigvatr**

RE: Sentry Pylon debate

Two versions right now:

RAW: Each model takes 2 hits per each model under the line, even from a different unit.

HYWPI / suggested RAI: 2 hits per model hit per unit. Reasoning for this is that the regular Death Ray has been FAQ'd to work as this.

**col_impact**

Sigvatr wrote:
RE: Sentry Pylon debate

Two versions right now:

RAW: Each model takes 2 hits per each model under the line, even from a different unit.

HYWPI / suggested RAI: 2 hits per model hit per unit. Reasoning for this is that the regular Death Ray has been FAQ'd to work as this.

Except that the Doom Scythe Death Ray always worked per unit. Check the original wording in the codex. The way FW intends us to play the FDR is very clear.

**Galorian**

jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

Ouch...

Did you remember that the Pylons can't be locked in combat?

If the WK didn't finish them off on the charge you could've gotten some more shooting out of them before the end...

**Kangodo**

The Codex does have the correct wording.
Personally I am more inclined to believe FW fethed up than thinking they intended this to happen

**col_impact**

Galorian wrote:
jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

Ouch...

Did you remember that the Pylons can't be locked in combat?

If the WK didn't finish them off on the charge you could've gotten some more shooting out of them before the end...

The Pylons can be locked in combat if they are joined by an IC who can be locked in combat. Obyron can still teleport them away, though.

**Desubot**

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo What happens when you tank shock the unit when it doesn't have a IC?

**jy2**

col_impact wrote:
jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

BTW, we played it the non-cheesy way with each unit hit counting only by models in the unit, not by total overall models underneath the line.

Why did you play it the non-cheesy way? There is zero ambiguity in the RAW so this means you basically modified the rules out of a sense of fairness and played it that way (HYWPI). I would think there was plenty of Gouda in that Elder list to balance out your Cheddar anyway. So yeah, playing it HYWPI meant that you weren't able to kill those Wraithknights that were in assault range and that overall the Sentry Star is very weak against MC.

It's handy to know how the Sentry Star performs with your fairness edits, but its overall more beneficial to know how it performs RAW, in order to see among other things, if fairness edits are even required.

True RAW is stupid broken. That's why I don't play it as RAW and any TO who advocates true RAW for this needs to have his head examined. True RAW is about as fun to play against as the re-rollable 2+, which in our meta got nerfed to 2+/4+.

Galorian wrote:
jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

Ouch...

Did you remember that the Pylons can't be locked in combat?

If the WK didn't finish them off on the charge you could've gotten some more shooting out of them before the end...

Yes, but the characters in the unit can be locked.

I was trying my damnedest to get my IC killed, but he kept making his 3++ phase shifter saves against S10 wraithknight attacks. Lol.

col_impact wrote:
Galorian wrote:
jy2 wrote:
I've had a few games with my Sentrystar and in 2 of my games, it scattered into the assault range of my opponent's wraithknights.

Ouch...

Did you remember that the Pylons can't be locked in combat?

If the WK didn't finish them off on the charge you could've gotten some more shooting out of them before the end...

The Pylons can be locked in combat if they are joined by an IC who can be locked in combat. Obyron can still teleport them away, though.

Don't have my codex with me, but I don't think Veil gives the user permission to teleport out of combat. Obyron, maybe, but the rest of the unit will stay if it was locked in combat.

Desubot wrote:
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo What happens when you tank shock the unit when it doesn't have a IC?

Nothing, it just moves out of the way (or can do a death-or-glory).

The unit is not immobile so it can move. It is also fearless.

**Sigvatr**

jy2 wrote:
Obyron, maybe, but the rest of the unit will stay if it was locked in combat.

Its unit and Obyron itself can be teleported out of combat.

**jy2**

Hmmm....in that case, I must have misread it. Then again, I didn't normally run Obyron before until I tried out the Sentrystar.

Would have been helpful in my games. Getting charged by 2 wraithknights (and an Imperial Knight!) isn't fun. Lol.

**Sigvatr**

jy2 wrote:
Then again, I didn't normally run Obyron before

Who did?

**Desubot**

jy2 wrote:

Desubot wrote:
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo What happens when you tank shock the unit when it doesn't have a IC?

Nothing, it just moves out of the way (or can do a death-or-glory).

The unit is not immobile so it can move. It is also fearless.

Oh good. i was under the impression that they were immobile and or not fearless for some reason.

**Tekron**

"Obyron and his unit are removed from the tabletop and replaced together anywhere on the board using the rules for deepstrike."

Definitely very important to use if locked in combat, it's pretty much the main rule that makes this deathstar viable.

**col_impact**

The change between 6th and 7th that unlocked this deathstar was that artillery were no longer prohibited from becoming relentless in 7th like they were in 6th.

**ninjafiredragon**

col_impact wrote:
The change between 6th and 7th that unlocked this deathstar was that artillery were no longer prohibited from becoming relentless in 7th like they were in 6th.

But I believe that relentless does not confer over to the unit. Slow and Purposeful does, but I dont think relentless does. Please prove me wrong, but thats just how I was seeing it.

**jy2**

ninjafiredragon wrote:
col_impact wrote:
The change between 6th and 7th that unlocked this deathstar was that artillery were no longer prohibited from becoming relentless in 7th like they were in 6th.

But I believe that relentless does not confer over to the unit. Slow and Purposeful does, but I dont think relentless does. Please prove me wrong, but thats just how I was seeing it.

It's not that Relentless confers. It's the Necron special rule - Phaeron - which makes the entire unit Relentless. So if the Overlord takes this upgrade, then everyone in the unit he is in becomes Relentless.