Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing but in the video games it seems the Lasgun also fires a lot faster than a pulse rifle. This seems to be a constant in Fire Warrior and Dawn of War games so is there any basis for this in the lore or is it just interpretative creativity from the developers ?

Well in general that's true by choice of the users, as the pulse rifle has a fully automatic mode, but precise shots are preferred. So we can;t quite be sure. And we don't have enough info on the pulse carbine to really compare them, so there isn't really any way to know.

 Formosa wrote:
My mistake its called a lasrifle and colimator

So not a lasgun then? please be aware of all of the facts before being rude and offensive.

Yes it's a lasgun, rifles are guns, colimnator is just the shot mode


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's like saying a pulse rifle isn't a gun and because it has rapid fire isn't a pulse weapon...

Anyway, merry Christmas to you

Interestingly enough, they always refer to the standard lasrifle as a "lasgun". I thought for a while the lasgun, lasrifle and laspistol were 3 different weapons

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing but in the video games it seems the Lasgun also fires a lot faster than a pulse rifle. This seems to be the case in Fire Warrior and Dawn of War games so is there any basis for this in the lore or is it just interpretative creativity from the developers ?

Here's the thing tho, in Imperial Infantrymen's Uplifting Primer, most lasguns (lasrifles) have alternative firing modes. I believe it's single-shot, burst fire, and auto, so basically ak47 but lasers! In Primer however, it's stated that it's preferable for almost all imperial guardsmen to using single-shot mode to conserve ammunition, since conventional power packs for the lasrifles can fire 60 shots per pack under normal setting, and I believe the guardsmen only got 2 or 3 power packs each. So really we don't know how accurate, how powerful, or even "shootier" a Tau pulse rifle is compared to a lasgun.

 lcmiracle wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing but in the video games it seems the Lasgun also fires a lot faster than a pulse rifle. This seems to be the case in Fire Warrior and Dawn of War games so is there any basis for this in the lore or is it just interpretative creativity from the developers ?

Here's the thing tho, in Imperial Infantrymen's Uplifting Primer, most lasguns (lasrifles) have alternative firing modes. I believe it's single-shot, burst fire, and auto, so basically ak47 but lasers! In Primer however, it's stated that it's preferable for almost all imperial guardsmen to using single-shot mode to conserve ammunition, since conventional power packs for the lasrifles can fire 60 shots per pack under normal setting, and I believe the guardsmen only got 2 or 3 power packs each. So really we don't know how accurate, how powerful, or even "shootier" a Tau pulse rifle is compared to a lasgun.

That is true except when it comes to power. The tau codex claims the Fire Warriors pulse rifle and pulse carbine outclass the standard firearms of every race they've encountered so far in range and power (though I have my doubts when it comes to Necrons and the Eldar).

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Interestingly enough, they always refer to the standard lasrifle as a "lasgun". I thought for a while the lasgun, lasrifle and laspistol were 3 different weapons

Now i got to model a lasshoota on a few of my shootaboyz.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing but in the video games it seems the Lasgun also fires a lot faster than a pulse rifle. This seems to be the case in Fire Warrior and Dawn of War games so is there any basis for this in the lore or is it just interpretative creativity from the developers ?

Here's the thing tho, in Imperial Infantrymen's Uplifting Primer, most lasguns (lasrifles) have alternative firing modes. I believe it's single-shot, burst fire, and auto, so basically ak47 but lasers! In Primer however, it's stated that it's preferable for almost all imperial guardsmen to using single-shot mode to conserve ammunition, since conventional power packs for the lasrifles can fire 60 shots per pack under normal setting, and I believe the guardsmen only got 2 or 3 power packs each. So really we don't know how accurate, how powerful, or even "shootier" a Tau pulse rifle is compared to a lasgun.

That is true except when it comes to power. The tau codex claims the Fire Warriors pulse rifle and pulse carbine outclass the standard firearms of every race they've encountered so far in range and power (though I have my doubts when it comes to Necrons and the Eldar).

Well Tau haven't encountered any other factions beyond the Imperium and Orks right? Thats just Shootas, Bolters, Lasguns, Hotshot Lasguns, out of all those yea it is better.

 Quickjager wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing but in the video games it seems the Lasgun also fires a lot faster than a pulse rifle. This seems to be the case in Fire Warrior and Dawn of War games so is there any basis for this in the lore or is it just interpretative creativity from the developers ?

Here's the thing tho, in Imperial Infantrymen's Uplifting Primer, most lasguns (lasrifles) have alternative firing modes. I believe it's single-shot, burst fire, and auto, so basically ak47 but lasers! In Primer however, it's stated that it's preferable for almost all imperial guardsmen to using single-shot mode to conserve ammunition, since conventional power packs for the lasrifles can fire 60 shots per pack under normal setting, and I believe the guardsmen only got 2 or 3 power packs each. So really we don't know how accurate, how powerful, or even "shootier" a Tau pulse rifle is compared to a lasgun.

That is true except when it comes to power. The tau codex claims the Fire Warriors pulse rifle and pulse carbine outclass the standard firearms of every race they've encountered so far in range and power (though I have my doubts when it comes to Necrons and the Eldar).

Well Tau haven't encountered any other factions beyond the Imperium and Orks right? Thats just Shootas, Bolters, Lasguns, Hotshot Lasguns, out of all those yea it is better.

They have encountered the Necrons, Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tyranids several times as well. However to be fair the Tau may not be aware of how powerful these foes weapons are as they may not have walked away from several of these encounters or no witnesses were left (in the case of Necron and Dark Eldar attacks this is common).

And some smaller races like the demiurg and nicassar, kroot too.

As for greater fire power, I'd disagree from a fluff standpoint, there smallarms outrange and out power the small arms of some of the races but I'm terms of firepower I'd say elder and neurons have that title.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necrons even

 Formosa wrote:
Yes it's a lasgun, rifles are guns, colimnator is just the shot mode


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's like saying a pulse rifle isn't a gun and because it has rapid fire isn't a pulse weapon...

Anyway, merry Christmas to you

I never said that it wasn't a gun, I saidvit wasn't a lasgun just like a pulse carbine isn't a pulse rifle.

What you basically said was that a plasma gun (IoM) is the same as a plasma rile (Tau) which is not true.

its a lasrifle, the shot mode is called colimnator, this gives it its different fire modes, but it is still a lasgun (lasergun), a pulse rifles and pulse carbines are both pulseguns, see that was easier, now they have variations but are built around the same weapon.

 Formosa wrote:
And some smaller races like the demiurg and nicassar, kroot too.

As for greater fire power, I'd disagree from a fluff standpoint, there smallarms outrange and out power the small arms of some of the races but I'm terms of firepower I'd say elder and neurons have that title.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necrons even

Necrons definitely, but shuriken weapons are about equal to bolters judging from the fluff. ASAIK, tau haven't really had a chance to examine necron tech as they have only encountered them once or twice. Although I still find it entertaining that the first contact they allied with them.

 Formosa wrote:
its a lasrifle, the shot mode is called colimnator, this gives it its different fire modes, but it is still a lasgun (lasergun), a pulse rifles and pulse carbines are both pulseguns, see that was easier, now they have variations but are built around the same weapon.

Lascannons are also laserguns, so are they also lasguns then? They just have a stronger shot, but they're still the same <sarcasm>

Of course! What is it but a lasgun for a Space Marine!

If we're getting picky then none of them are rifles as neither pulse rifles or lasrifles have rifleing as they are energy weapons, and the boltgun is a cannon since it has explosive rounds.

Both rl and in universe people use the terms loosely, for example modern handguns are rifles too since they have rifling.

But to fluff!
The lasrifle is a lasgun, the lascannon is a lasweapon, but we're talking specifically small arms, the colimnator is a shot mode similar to rapid fire etc
seems to me that you are annoyed that you've been shown that your assertion that tau small arms are better than lasguns in tech based only on range and str, utterly ignoring my own posts and others, I try to be polite as much as possible but in this case I must say, your wrong.

If you would like a polite conversation on the subject I'm happy to do so, but your bad attempts to pick holes is very churlish and you make no effort to back up your statements

What are you guyz talking about - shootas are superior. They're so advanced noone knows how they work. Even orkses themselves. And mind you, shootas are probably the most common handguns in the universe.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The same reason Wraithknights and Riptides are: To sell more Citadel plastic kits with superior rules. The best thing that can ever happen to a big unit is to be rated as a MC.

Toughfness 8 Deffdread, yes please

 Mojo1jojo wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The same reason Wraithknights and Riptides are: To sell more Citadel plastic kits with superior rules. The best thing that can ever happen to a big unit is to be rated as a MC.

Toughfness 8 Deffdread, yes please

Yes but if it was a MC it might not have Grot Riggers. The dread needs the riggers. Having the right grot at the right (or wrong depending on outlook) time can make all the difference.

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Mojo1jojo wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The same reason Wraithknights and Riptides are: To sell more Citadel plastic kits with superior rules. The best thing that can ever happen to a big unit is to be rated as a MC.

Toughfness 8 Deffdread, yes please

Yes but if it was a MC it might not have Grot Riggers. The dread needs the riggers. Having the right grot at the right (or wrong depending on outlook) time can make all the difference.

Give me Toughness 8 with 4 wounds and a 3+ 5++ ill give up the grot riggers in an instant

But on the note of repairs, are there any MC that can be fixed while in combat or on the board like a Paindoc healing a squiggoth, techmarine repairing a dreadknight, or a bonesinger repairing a wraithknight ? Or do MCs just stay damaged ?

a fair few have access to IWND in some form or another

C'tan Shards, Canoptek Spyders & Dreadknights spring to mind as the only ones that dont

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It also brings up an interesting point about warp-stuff. Warp-stuff isn't really tech, it's space-magic, but it is often used to compare technology. But then we have the necrons, also have no warp technology, but is still the most advanced race.

Any technology sufficiently advanced to defy the current scientific understanding and technology level would be considered magic. But if they had a knowledge about how it works empirically then it would just be another branch of science.

A psychic hood uses the warp to channel power to its wielder, that's not mAgic

What strength do you need to insta-kill most MCs anyway ? Is it D-Strength or can things outside of Lords of Wars (your Super-Heavy and Gargantuan-Creature) accomplish the task ?

The only thing I can think of is the Necron Monolith's inter-dimensional gateway (and that's not really killing the target), the tau's paradox squad bombing and the Imperium's Vortex missles.

Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It also brings up an interesting point about warp-stuff. Warp-stuff isn't really tech, it's space-magic, but it is often used to compare technology. But then we have the necrons, also have no warp technology, but is still the most advanced race.

Any technology sufficiently advanced to defy the current scientific understanding and technology level would be considered magic. But if they had a knowledge about how it works empirically then it would just be another branch of science.

Quoting that does not make it not space-magic. I mean, that's literaly what it's supposed to be, space magic. There is sicency bits surrounding it, but it's still space magic.

Indeed. Warp-tech is technomancy, the fusion of magic and technology. The Warp is not "science you don't understand", the Warp cannot be understood. It defies such mortal constraints, or requirements. It does, in fact, take great pleasure in driving those who attempt to categorize the Warp in such ways mad.

Well put.

 Psienesis wrote:
Indeed. Warp-tech is technomancy, the fusion of magic and technology. The Warp is not "science you don't understand", the Warp cannot be understood. It defies such mortal constraints, or requirements. It does, in fact, take great pleasure in driving those who attempt to categorize the Warp in such ways mad.

Sorry psi you either wrong or not specific enough, psychic powers are space magic, something the draws power and has an effect but as you said cannot be explained, except it can, if we were willing or able to dig deep enough into the universe and the writers had expanded enough I'd be willing to bet that psykers have additional organs, or another part if the brain is active, again if the writers wanted too they could have scientists study how psykers draw from the warp etc.

The WARP is unknowable, things that use the warp as a power source are not,
warp drives
force weapons
Psychic hoods
The list goes on, it's all quantifiable science (I.e can make a prediction about a+b and get a result that can be replicated),
so when I say your either wrong or not specific, I mean if your referring to all warp based tech as magic machines then your wrong, if your referring to certain warp based tech then you need to be more specific.