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 Brotherjanus wrote:
As someone that; has a mustache and beard, is younger than most of my group, is good at staring contests, and can do all the other silly rules I am not effected by them so much. This was not due to my gameplay skills or superior planning. I was simply born with the randomly correct chromosomes, at a later year than my group, and I like having facial hair. None of this should give me game advantages. That is all Melissia is saying. It is unfair for no reason in a game that costs quite alot of money to play.

Those rules are jokes.
I don't take them seriously, and ignore them, as can anyone else.

I agree, to get benefits because of genetics is silly, but they can just be ignored.
she has been very agressive and confrontational this whole thread, which I believe is unnecessary.
just ignore the rules and move on.

Thanks
austin

 Brotherjanus wrote:
As someone that; has a mustache and beard, is younger than most of my group, is good at staring contests, and can do all the other silly rules I am not effected by them so much. This was not due to my gameplay skills or superior planning. I was simply born with the randomly correct chromosomes, at a later year than my group, and I like having facial hair. None of this should give me game advantages. That is all Melissia is saying. It is unfair for no reason in a game that costs quite alot of money to play.

As far as the last statement goes, it's patently false. The game requires exactly no money to play, just an imagination, some cardboard (for cutting out little circles), and the free rulesset.

Everything else "required" to play, strictly speaking, is not required.

And I would definitely let a woman get the re-rolls for Ulfrik if she had a fake beard on she went out and got, which was far more impressive than mine XD

That is not so easy to do. Why should she have to ignore rules? It shouldn't have been done that way to begin with. It is very easy to dismiss her anger when you have not had to deal with her situation. I have seen her here for years and different people tell her the same things when things have happened negatively to her because of her gender. In any case, that option isn't really an option and this isn't really on topic.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
That is not so easy to do. Why should she have to ignore rules? It shouldn't have been done that way to begin with. It is very easy to dismiss her anger when you have not had to deal with her situation. I have seen her here for years and different people tell her the same things when things have happened negatively to her because of her gender. In any case, that option isn't really an option and this isn't really on topic.

She doesn't have to ignore rules - she can do whatever she wants. If she doesn't like it, ignore it. If she does like it, then don't ignore it.

I think "not being required to do something" shouldn't equate to "having to not do something" as you have implied with this post.

I will not argue. This will quickly turn absurd and will get nowhere. The bottomline is that these are bad rules and should never have been released as a replacement to Warhammer. "Unglued Party Warhammer" would have been more appropriate and then ignoring it would be valid.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
I will not argue. This will quickly turn absurd and will get nowhere. The bottomline is that these are bad rules and should never have been released as a replacement to Warhammer. "Unglued Party Warhammer" would have been more appropriate and then ignoring it would be valid.

Does it say anywhere that it is replacing Warhammer? Because it reads like "unglued party warhammer" and is free like "unglued party warhammer" and I've never seen anywhere that says one can no longer play WFB 8th because this replaces it.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
That is not so easy to do. Why should she have to ignore rules? It shouldn't have been done that way to begin with. It is very easy to dismiss her anger when you have not had to deal with her situation. I have seen her here for years and different people tell her the same things when things have happened negatively to her because of her gender. In any case, that option isn't really an option and this isn't really on topic.

Staying in line with this sub-topic for a second:

I'm on her side.
I think if it were any other system, I would be as vocal as her. But this is a light and goofy set of rules, with some silliness thrown in.
a few comments on it is fine.
I understand her anger, but it has been a bit excessive here.

I will stress again: I AM ON HER SIDE.
I'm not some bigoted MRA with a neckbeard.

This will probably be my last comment on this sub topic.
I may comment further, depending on who says what, and whether or not I need to defend my position.

I am sorry if I upset anybody

Thanks
austin

They pulled all Warhammer books and are no longer selling Warhammer as we know it. That is them replacing Warhammer. While it is true that you can still play 8th that is not a reasonable expectation as it is not the current rule set. Just because we can play any edition that doesn't mean we can find games for it. Maybe she plays strictly in tournaments? Tournaments very rarely use old rule sets.

I'm sure tournaments will throw out all the waaagh! And beard rules, and fill in something else.
it's not a big deal.

Thanks
austin

 Redbad wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
That is not so easy to do. Why should she have to ignore rules? It shouldn't have been done that way to begin with. It is very easy to dismiss her anger when you have not had to deal with her situation. I have seen her here for years and different people tell her the same things when things have happened negatively to her because of her gender. In any case, that option isn't really an option and this isn't really on topic.

Staying in line with this sub-topic for a second:

I'm on her side.
I think if it were any other system, I would be as vocal as her. But this is a light and goofy set of rules, with some silliness thrown in.
a few comments on it is fine.
I understand her anger, but it has been a bit excessive here.

I will stress again: I AM ON HER SIDE.
I'm not some bigoted MRA with a neckbeard.

This will probably be my last comment on this sub topic.
I may comment further, depending on who says what, and whether or not I need to defend my position.

I am sorry if I upset anybody

Thanks
austin

Her anger isn't just this one time. She has gotten this way after years of dealing with the same thing.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
They pulled all Warhammer books and are no longer selling Warhammer as we know it. That is them replacing Warhammer. While it is true that you can still play 8th that is not a reasonable expectation as it is not the current rule set. Just because we can play any edition that doesn't mean we can find games for it. Maybe she plays strictly in tournaments? Tournaments very rarely use old rule sets.

And I am sure TOs will work out the silly AoS rules. So she can stick to 8th, play AoS if she wants, or play tournaments.

Or she can ride a bike or shoot a rifle.

On the side of "beard rules are sexist."

I'm going to read the rules, but for now, silly system or no, that a rule like that got past the "wouldn't it be fun if...?" phase to the public one shows a pretty ridiculous lack of judgement in my opinion.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Has anyone tried with wounds? I mean, on paper it looks good at least.

How many wounds does a Chaos Warrior have compared to a Night Goblin?

people need to also realize that the game will grow with new units being released that are built around this game (like the sigmarines are all pretty well made if you ask me) and over time the old ones will also be updated to fit better (or at least there will be other units released that can be used with the older miniatures as proxies), getting it right is not simple thing as people claim it is.... I am excited for the new phase, at least I am back to gaming

Haven't read through all the posts (sorry) but remind me, is there anything stopping someone from just playing all Heroes and Monsters with no regular Troops?

 KiloFiX wrote:
Haven't read through all the posts (sorry) but remind me, is there anything stopping someone from just playing all Heroes and Monsters with no regular Troops?

No.

EDIT: Though the scenarios might if they exist/when they're released.

 Melissia wrote:
The fact that, in order to have a fair and fun game, you have to houserule away stupid arbitrary crap is proof that the elements you had to houserule away were bad game design.

I think that in order to have a fair and fun game, I should probably just not play against people who make it their life mission to complain endlessly about how the game can't be fair and fun for them.


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 Sigvatr wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Has anyone tried with wounds? I mean, on paper it looks good at least.

How many wounds does a Chaos Warrior have compared to a Night Goblin?

2 Goblins can't take 1 Chaos Warrior, but 40 Goblins can take 20 Chaos Warriors.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does it say anywhere that it is replacing Warhammer?

Look at the GW website. Warhammer Fantasy Battle no longer exists there. In the Warhammer webpage, there is Age of Sigmar.

 Melissia wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does it say anywhere that it is replacing Warhammer?

Look at the GW website. Warhammer Fantasy Battle no longer exists there. In the Warhammer webpage, there is Age of Sigmar.

I think he means no one is forcing you to not play 8E...

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Her anger isn't just this one time. She has gotten this way after years of dealing with the same thing.

At this point, I'm not really expecting a rational response. Just the same old "oh look at that silly emotional woman" nonsense that people who don't have a point often rely upon.


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 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does it say anywhere that it is replacing Warhammer?

Look at the GW website. Warhammer Fantasy Battle no longer exists there. In the Warhammer webpage, there is Age of Sigmar.

I think he means no one is forcing you to not play 8E...

The lack of players does. Most players will move on to the newest edition. Inertia means if I don't, I won't get games, or if I do, they will be more rare and less varied than if I move on to the newest edition myself.

So many people continued to play D&D 3.5 Edition after 4th Edition. I'm not sure what difference in circumstances would make people totally drop 8th edition WHFB...

Perhaps wargamers are a more flighty and emotional lot that they would abandon a game that's no longer supported?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

At this point, I'm not really expecting a rational response. Just the same old "oh look at that silly emotional woman" nonsense that people who don't have a point often rely upon.

Has anybody referenced your gender up until this point? I've been following along with the discussion and most people are directly responding to your actions. To be perfectly honest with you, had you not just referenced yourself as a woman I would not have assigned a gender to you at any point during this discussion

I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot (Thanks GW)...

I realize that AoS is an extremely polarizing release but...

...RULE #1 EVERYONE - ALL THE TIME.

Thanks!

 Melissia wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Does it say anywhere that it is replacing Warhammer?

Look at the GW website. Warhammer Fantasy Battle no longer exists there. In the Warhammer webpage, there is Age of Sigmar.

I think he means no one is forcing you to not play 8E...

The lack of players does. Most players will move on to the newest edition. Inertia means if I don't, I won't get games, or if I do, they will be more rare and less varied than if I move on to the newest edition myself.

but why the lack of players? If so many player hate it as much as you, can't you just gather together and form an 8E grandfather group, rather than quit?

Rihgu wrote:
So many people continued to play D&D 3.5 Edition after 4th Edition

Pen and Paper roleplaying games have a very different culture than Wargaming does, as well as more commitment in terms of time (to play a single proper game of DnD requires months at least; to play a single proper game of WHFB or 40k you need a couple weeks at most, including time to assemble and paint your miniatures). Some are still playing 3.5 literally because their game is still ongoing after all this time. Even then, a good number of DnD 3.5th edition players have moved on-- to Pathfinder, while others have moved to 5th edition-- games with similar enough rules to adapt quickly, but far better balance and less obnoxious quirks.

Wargames have a very different culture, and a very different economic footprint, than pen and paper games, and making asinine arguments about how wargamers are "flighty and emotional" shows a great amount of disdain for your fellow players.

 Melissia wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
So many people continued to play D&D 3.5 Edition after 4th Edition

Pen and Paper roleplaying games have a very different culture than Wargaming does, as well as more commitment in terms of time (to play a single proper game of DnD requires months at least; to play a single proper game of WHFB or 40k you need a couple weeks at most, including time to assemble and paint your miniatures). Some are still playing 3.5 literally because their game is still ongoing after all this time. Even then, a good number of DnD 3.5th edition players have moved on-- to Pathfinder, while others have moved to 5th edition-- games with similar enough rules to adapt quickly, but far better balance and less obnoxious quirks.

I guess I'm in a weird place, where I play D&D with the same people I play Warhammer with. A single proper game of DnD takes months? What are you talking about? A single proper game of DnD takes about twice as long as it takes a game of Warhammer, if you write lists/make characters before hand. It just requires more people to have the time to do it.

And yes, SOME have moved onto other editions (ours have moved on to 5th) but I literally COULD NOT CONVINCE anybody to play 4e. If Age of Sigmar is as bad as people are saying, I'll have the same issue, and I'll be sticking with 8th until the group moves on to 10th edition or whatever (my group only had 1 campaign of Pathfinder, had only a few sessions. On that note, I think I've figured out why you think a game of D&D takes months? Because you're calling a campaign a game. A campaign = a campaign. A game of Warhammer = a session of D&D)

Wargames have a very different culture, and a very different economic footprint, than pen and paper games, and making asinine arguments about how wargamers are "flighty and emotional" shows a great amount of disdain for your fellow players.

No, I was just musing why D&D is any different from Warhammer. There is MORE incentive to stick with an edition of Warhammer that your group likes. Hey, I spent $X00 on Warhammer. That's X00 reasons to stick to 8th. With D&D I spent probably 130$ on books. New books costs 130$ again, but it still pales in comparison to my investment into 8th.

What rational reason is there for wargamers to move on to an edition of a game they hate just because it's new?

Rihgu wrote:
A single proper game of DnD takes about twice as long as it takes a game of Warhammer

One single session of DnD is not a "game" of DnD.

Played my first real game of AoS. I borrowed a lizardmen army (that I did not build) made up of Korq-Gar, Chakkax, EotG, troglodon, 3 ripperdactlys, 20 Saurus warriors, 12 temple guard, and 10 CoC. I had no idea what i was going up against. Neither did my opponent. He wanted to gauge how many models his nasty units would be worth when determining "fairness". He brought Malekith, Alerial, Teclis, Loremaster, 3 bolt throwers, 11 glade guard, 15 swordsmen, 15 executioners, and 2 hydras. By all means he should have smoked me. I ended losing because I would have had to endure 2 turns of shooting before I could reach charge range. All he had left were his guard and one bolt thrower. If you play smartly, and use the rules given to you, you can make something from nothing. There's a lot to be said about synergy and tactics in AoS. Just in different ways than 8th Ed.

Try actually playing a game and working out what you don't understand or don't like before throwing your models and having a fit because you read things you don't like. It was a challenge and I had fun.

 Melissia wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
A single proper game of DnD takes about twice as long as it takes a game of Warhammer

One single session of DnD is not a "game" of DnD.

One single match of Warhammer is not a "game" of Warhammer. Look, I can do it, too!

My friends and I can meet up for a night and have our characters go through a dungeon and find the Amulet of Yendor *****OR****** we can go on an epic campaign through the multiverse collecting thousands of Amulets of Yendors to save everything!

My friends and I can meet up for a night of Warhammer and play one match *****OR**** we can have a sprawling campaign across the Old World stomping eachother at every turn until one of us forges a mighty empire.

It has been stated that the new silly rules are only for old armies, no new miniatures will include them.

Rihgu wrote:
One single match of Warhammer is not a "game" of Warhammer.

Yes, it is. One match of Warhammer is a full game of Warhammer, because Warhammer is designed to be started and completed in a single match. Different rules can change this-- such as tournament rules or campaign rules. But as the basic rules are designed, a game of Warhammer starts when you determine who goes first, and ends when one side or the other achieves victory. Beyond that match, the game does not keep a persistent record of what happens from game to game without house rules.

By contrast, DnD's core rulebook is explicitly designed around a long-term progression of persistent characters, spanning games that last through many sessions. Even its baseline "newbie" story included in each edition lasts numerous sessions.

Wargaming and PnP roleplaying (at least, insofar as DnD and most other well known RPGs are concerned) are quite different beasts, and comparing the two runs the risk of comparing apples to oranges.


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blackforge wrote:before throwing your models and having a fit

People aren't doing that.