AoS PDF Warscrolls Discussion

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**Rihgu**

We did it wrong, then! The baseline newbie story took us one night, probably between 4-6 hours!

You don't have a point. A game of Warhammer is the equivalent of a session of D&D. If you link them together they become a campaign. A session does not need to become a campaign, much as a game does not need to become a campaign.

As the basic rules are designed, a game of DnD starts when the DM begins narration and ends when the DM ceases narration.

If you're playing a DnD campaign and bring your character sheet to mine, under most circumstances I'm going to ask you to make a new one. Your character isn't persistent outside of the campaign you're in in most cases!

Listen - if you don't actually want to discuss the major point at hand, just say so. Don't try to force your asinine and baseless definition of a "game" of Dungeons and Dragons to make it so you "win" the discussion.

**Swastakowey**

Melissia wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
One single match of Warhammer is not a "game" of Warhammer.
Yes, it is. One match of Warhammer is a full game of Warhammer, because Warhammer is designed to be started and completed in a single match. Different rules can change this-- such as tournament rules or campaign rules. But as the basic rules are designed, a game of Warhammer starts when you determine who goes first, and ends when one side or the other achieves victory. Beyond that match, the game does not keep a persistent record of what happens from game to game without house rules.

By contrast, DnD's core rulebook is explicitly designed around a long-term progression of persistent characters, spanning games that last through many sessions. Even its baseline "newbie" story included in each edition lasts numerous sessions.

Wargaming and PnP roleplaying (at least, insofar as DnD and most other well known RPGs are concerned) are quite different beasts, and comparing the two runs the risk of comparing apples to oranges.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

blackforge wrote:before throwing your models and having a fit
People aren't doing that.

RPG games are mean't to be played over months as you say. But they don't take any effort to play outside of the GM reading the rules. Once that is done you are good to play. Wargames take many months to get models, terrain and so on ready to actually start playing.

In saying that, what about Gorka Morka? Mordheim or all the other games that do keep track of your models game after game. I still have my first warband somewhere from 10ish years ago. A friend has his gorka morka lists from 20 (I think) years ago. My Necromunda Arbites have fought hard and long, some members have been alive for a few years now.

Ultimately it depends on the game for both RPG PnP and Wargames in how much time spent playing. But usually when you add the time spent on modeling all the bits for a wargame and then time spent playing I think you will find it all evens out.

**kenofyork**

I have to agree with the comments about the women and the beard rules. There are 2 actually, the mustache and the beard rule. There should be counter balancing rules that for example benefits old guys or women. What if witch elves gained a bonus if the player had larger breasts than their opponent? Kind of absurd in a way, but not that much difference. That would be extremely sexist and I am sure would be met with criticism.

If the rules are already being discounted and everyone is planning to ignore them, why bother even including them? What is the point?

My take on it is that it reeks of very juvenile humor. Which demonstrates the intended target. Why not include a bonus for flatulence during the game while they were at it? Perhaps belching? All the staples of laugh out loud humor for the younger set.

The comments about breast bonuses for witch elves were made to illustrate the absurdity of things, and was not an actual suggestion in case anyone is planning to miss the point and offer a sharp rebuke.

**Melissia**

Swastakowey wrote:
[snip for space]

That actually kind of proves my real point, which was how different the two are

There's similarities and perhaps a bit of camaraderie between the two groups and the hobbies they practice, but they're still pretty different.

**Swastakowey**

kenofyork wrote:
I have to agree with the comments about the women and the beard rules. There are 2 actually, the mustache and the beard rule. There should be counter balancing rules that for example benefits old guys or women. What if witch elves gained a bonus if the player had larger breasts than their opponent? Kind of absurd in a way, but not that much difference. That would be extremely sexist and I am sure would be met with criticism.

If the rules are already being discounted and everyone is planning to ignore them, why bother even including them? What is the point?

My take on it is that it reeks of very juvenile humor. Which demonstrates the intended target. Why not include a bonus for flatulence during the game while they were at it? Perhaps belching? All the staples of laugh out loud humor for the younger set.

Well there are also children... men who can't grow beards and men who aren't allowed facial hair for work.

To get around that use the brain inside and use a fake facial hair thing for the bonus. Or ignore the rule and get the bonus regardless.

The rules are still munted. Probably the worst set of rules I have seen to be honest.

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Melissia wrote:
Swastakowey wrote:
[snip for space]
That actually kind of proves my real point, which was how different the two are

Yea wasn't directed more stating I guess.

**Melissia**

Yeh I got that much. I love both hobbies,but am limited on funds. Which is probably why I play WFRP/Dark Heresy more than I play their respective tabletop wargames these days. And well, these silly rules just aren't convincing me I want to do this.

I'll see what the future holds for AoS once their non-legacy armies are released, but this crap makes me lose interest.

**Redbad**

Melissia wrote:
Yeh I got that much. I love both hobbies,but am limited on funds. Which is probably why I play WFRP/Dark Heresy more than I play their respective tabletop wargames these days. And well, these silly rules just aren't convincing me I want to do this.

I'll see what the future holds for AoS once their non-legacy armies are released, but this crap makes me lose interest.

Have you tried armies of arcana?
Pick up games are rare, but it plays nicely, and if you can convince a friend, you may have some use for those dwarfs.

KOW is another option, but not as good, IMHO as armies of arcana.

If you rely on pick up games to get your games in, and you don't like AOS, sadly, you'll have to fold, or play a new game.
I hate saying that.

I'm also sorry for some of my comments earlier.
The anonymity of the Internet took over, and I never considered that your feelings were maybe actually hurt.

I was in the wrong.

Thanks
austin

**JohnHwangDD**

In going through the whole beard discussion, I would demand that any Dwarf player have a beard to get the bonuses.

Fortunately, that condition is easily met, even if you have zero body hair whatsoever:

http://www.amazon.com/Century-Novelty-Beard-And-Mustache/dp/B0037X9N5U

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kenofyork wrote:
I have to agree with the comments about the women and the beard rules. There are 2 actually, the mustache and the beard rule. There should be counter balancing rules that for example benefits old guys or women. What if witch elves gained a bonus if the player had larger breasts than their opponent? Kind of absurd in a way, but not that much difference. That would be extremely sexist and I am sure would be met with criticism.

Fake boobies are also available from halloween shops for the flat-chested among us.

(no, I'm not going to link it from Amazon).

**Melissia**

The rules said impressive beard, it didn't say what kind.

Oxford Dictionary wrote:A person who pretends to have a romantic or sexual relationship with someone else in order to conceal the other’s true sexual orientation.

Whoever has the most impressive of these gets the rule, none of this facial hair nonsense.

**Redbad**

Melissia wrote:
The rules said impressive beard, it didn't say what kind.

Oxford Dictionary wrote:A person who pretends to have a romantic or sexual relationship with someone else in order to conceal the other’s true sexual orientation.

Whoever has the most impressive of these gets the rule, none of this facial hair nonsense.

XD exalted.. my favorite definition of a beard

**Jaceevoke**

Haight wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Sim-Life wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Sim-Life wrote:
Tell me where the rules say you're restricted to only choosing what it's possible to roll on 2d6.

This right here is why GW gave up on trying to make a normal game.

Why? Other companies can make a tight rule sets with minimal holes. Why should GW get free pass for having holes in their rules that you can drive a tank through?

"Tell me where it says I can't" isn't a hole in the rules, it's a hole in your reasoning. There's nothing in Warmachine telling me I can't roll d20s, either.

Agreed, and well said.

To quote Not Dice, a fellow infernal from my days as an Infernal for PP "The rules don't say I can't ? Well, the rules don't say I can't hit you in the face with a toaster, either." That quote stuck with me throughout the almost 3 years I did Infernaling with Privateer.

Both PP games and AoS are what are called positive clarification games. The rules tell you what you can do ; by that virtue, they do not have to call out everything you cannot do, as it would literally be impossible to do. Sometimes those rules require clarification as to mechanical operation or intent (or both!). PP does a good job of this, whereas GW used to give it a reasonably well intentioned try (we'll see if they continue).

Anyone using the "The Rules don't say i can't" as a justification as to why AoS is a weak rule set : post another ruleset that is "strong" by comparison, and i'll immediately engage in the same logic. Hell i'll save us both the time: I guarantee you that the ruleset posited doesn't say I can't run over my opponent if I lose, but if I win, they have to buy me lunch. Therefore, because it doesn't say that, if i lose, i'm redecorating my opponent in radial tire print & Road Grease Grey, or getting a fething sammich outta it.

Look, the AoS core rules are... goofy. There are some Fozzi Bear warscroll rules that are wokka wokka wokka. Konrad's is clever, most of the rest are stupid, the bell's is unnecessary. But let's not take a goofy ruleset we're all trying to come to terms with and go completely off the rails and intentionally make it worse than it really is through gakky logic and non-starter conclusive leaps.

So apparently a GW (technically FW) employee confirmed the screaming bell and lord of change combo does indeed work to quote "I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against.". Here's the link http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/gw-answers-age-of-sigmar-questions.html

**timetowaste85**

So...where do we actually find the bloody keywords, other than on warscrolls that don't tell us what they do? For instance, I'm looking for the chaos Mark keywords, like Khorne, Nurgle, etc., but the only place I see them written out are on the lord cards. Should I use that ruling? Because then everything Nurgle gets an additional wound. Wtf?! That's insane.

**Rihgu**

No, if you give the model the Keyword Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, the only thing that that serves to do is to interact with abilities which depend on said keyword.

Not sure if any exist at the moment, so for right now it, like most keywords, are "useless". But be sure that future expansions will make use of that (such as spells that only target "Khorne" keyworded units and the like)

**Matt.Kingsley**

The Warshrine's "Favour of the Ruinous Powers" only effects models with certain Keywords depending on the effect you choose.

For example, "Favour of Slaanesh" only affects Mortal Slaanesh models, or models with both the Mortal and Slaanesh Keywords.