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To see the relative power of Orks vs. marines, just look at what 11 points buys you:

Ork boy witch 'eavy armor and shoota and stikkbombz

Space Marine scout with bolter, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades

Both have 4+ save, same WS, W, and T. Both are troops. Guns are similar, although a shoota may be slightly better.

But whereas Orks get Ld 7 and Mob Rule, the scout gets Ld 8 and ATSKNF.

The Ork gets +1A. The Scout gets +2BS, +1S, +2I.

The Ork gets 'Ere We Go. Scout gets Infiltrate, Scout, Move Through Cover, and Chapter Tactics. (The Ork gets Furious Charge, but that still only makes them the same S as a scout only if they get the charge.)

A scout is almost universally equal or better across the board, right?

I feel like points should balance all units and armies and the same 11 points seems to buy a more versatile and effective marine unit.

When you do the same exercise comparing scouts and kommandos (infiltrators for both armies), the results favor the Scout even more strongly, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. I love Orks and I have never collected any other army. I actually win at Maelstrom more than I lose (and lose at Eternal War far more than I win). I think the Ork dex is flavorful, fun, and competitive. I just don't understand how the points values are calculated to "balance" our units with those of some other factions.

But never fear! The Waagh! will prevail!

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:
To see the relative power of Orks vs. marines, just look at what 11 points buys you:
[snip]

Comparing points vs points will not work, since you pay for things like upgradeability, role and synergy, which makes the 1on1 comparision void.

Im a big fan of the Ork dex, it has some fun builds that are pretty competitive and it is fun to play against!!!

Depending on the player I would put it in the high mid tier of things, but it can easily slump to the bottom.

You also get the ability to take a mob up to 30, cheap force multiplier units, and assault transports.

the_scotsman wrote:
You also get the ability to take a mob up to 30, cheap force multiplier units, and assault transports.

Fair points, but scouts have access to an assault skimmer transport (for smaller units, but still a similar option). But scouts also get more weapon and equipment options like camo cloaks. I'm not saying Ork boyz are lousy by any means, but can you honestly say you would not trade one attack and 'Ere We Go for +2BS, +1S, +2Ini, +1Ld and trade Mob Rule for ATSKNF? I think most Ork players would take that trade for their shoota boyz in a heartbeat!

To me, the only big advantages of 30-boy blobs are that it helps you pass mob rule (but you wouldn't have to worry about the morale of MSU if you had ATSKNF) and that you can really get a big boost from your Painboyz.

But like I said, I love Orks and think they can be used effectively in the current Codex. I think they are harder to use successfully than some other armies like Marines or Necrons because our units are really only effective at one or two things and you have to have the right mix maneuvered into the right place at the right time to be effective. You have to have good timing, your units have to support each other and set each other up. You have to plan two turns ahead. The army can be unforgiving of poor deployment and turn 1 movement choices.

I think there is a steep learning curve and that is why you see such disagreement on how effective the codex is. In the right hands with the right list, it is very powerful. But in the average player's hands (like me!) and with a list that is limited by our painted models (many of us don't have 15 MANz, 100+ Boyz for Green Tide, or five battlewagons), it can be very hit-or-miss depending on the mission, terrain, opponent, etc.

What I find is I tend to win close games and my losses are often absolute blow-outs where I get crushed. I don't ever roll over anyone, but Orks can be very effective in Maelstrom games due to our board control.