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 Grimskul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everyone wants to be Necrons/Eldar so they have a chance of beating Necrons/Eldar.

I wouldn't say everyone, and as an Ork player I have some measure of consideration for my opponent's enjoyment when playing the game. I laugh as much as my opponent when my boyz bonk each other on the head or when I roll double 1's for my Shokk Attack Gun. Necron RP are about as interactive as punching a brick wall. Although it'll never happen (cause da $$$), I still think its better to tone down OP things than try to raise everyone else to that level, it only highlights the issues of the armies "no-brainers" even moreso than fixing it (do you see any foot eldar lists going around? I just see people playing primarily with jetbikes and wraithknights). Even then some other faction's "OPness" will be better than another's. Look at Dark Angels right now. Ravenwing is seen as the only the good "competitive" build.

actually Yes, I have seen a fair amount of Footdar lists, and they kicked the crap out of who they were playing. Why? because even footdar got stupid huge buffs and now its harder to play against the "garbage" eldar units then ever before. So since the current trend is to buff every single unit in the game then why shouldn't every codex receive that treatment. And you can go on about how its better to tone things down but since that won't happen because GW made money off the Eldar/Necron model I don't see it as being useful.

Footdar lists are meta-counters because no one would dream of bringing heavy bolters to the table at this point.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everyone wants to be Necrons/Eldar so they have a chance of beating Necrons/Eldar.

I wouldn't say everyone, and as an Ork player I have some measure of consideration for my opponent's enjoyment when playing the game. I laugh as much as my opponent when my boyz bonk each other on the head or when I roll double 1's for my Shokk Attack Gun. Necron RP are about as interactive as punching a brick wall. Although it'll never happen (cause da $$$), I still think its better to tone down OP things than try to raise everyone else to that level, it only highlights the issues of the armies "no-brainers" even moreso than fixing it (do you see any foot eldar lists going around? I just see people playing primarily with jetbikes and wraithknights). Even then some other faction's "OPness" will be better than another's. Look at Dark Angels right now. Ravenwing is seen as the only the good "competitive" build.

actually Yes, I have seen a fair amount of Footdar lists, and they kicked the crap out of who they were playing. Why? because even footdar got stupid huge buffs and now its harder to play against the "garbage" eldar units then ever before. So since the current trend is to buff every single unit in the game then why shouldn't every codex receive that treatment. And you can go on about how its better to tone things down but since that won't happen because GW made money off the Eldar/Necron model I don't see it as being useful.

Then let me ask you this. If another Ork codex comes in and they stay roughly the same in terms of tier (i.e. behind Eldar/Necrons), would you still bother playing Orks? Do you still have fun playing with them currently? I understand the desire for a better-written book but the desire for effective "OP"ness makes it seem as if though you care more about gaining access to an easier way of winning, rather than the army itself getting fixed up on its certain hang-ups and figuring out how to work past its weaknesses.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everyone wants to be Necrons/Eldar so they have a chance of beating Necrons/Eldar.

I wouldn't say everyone, and as an Ork player I have some measure of consideration for my opponent's enjoyment when playing the game. I laugh as much as my opponent when my boyz bonk each other on the head or when I roll double 1's for my Shokk Attack Gun. Necron RP are about as interactive as punching a brick wall. Although it'll never happen (cause da $$$), I still think its better to tone down OP things than try to raise everyone else to that level, it only highlights the issues of the armies "no-brainers" even moreso than fixing it (do you see any foot eldar lists going around? I just see people playing primarily with jetbikes and wraithknights). Even then some other faction's "OPness" will be better than another's. Look at Dark Angels right now. Ravenwing is seen as the only the good "competitive" build.

actually Yes, I have seen a fair amount of Footdar lists, and they kicked the crap out of who they were playing. Why? because even footdar got stupid huge buffs and now its harder to play against the "garbage" eldar units then ever before. So since the current trend is to buff every single unit in the game then why shouldn't every codex receive that treatment. And you can go on about how its better to tone things down but since that won't happen because GW made money off the Eldar/Necron model I don't see it as being useful.

Then let me ask you this. If another Ork codex comes in and they stay roughly the same in terms of tier (i.e. behind Eldar/Necrons), would you still bother playing Orks? Do you still have fun playing with them currently? I understand the desire for a better-written book but the desire for effective "OP"ness makes it seem as if though you care more about gaining access to an easier way of winning, rather than the army itself getting fixed up on its certain hang-ups and figuring out how to work past its weaknesses.

Yes, I love my Orks, I spent so much time collecting, fixing and painting them and I love how they look. I love playing my orks and everything about them. What I hate is that I go to play a game and unless im playing against 2 or so other Codex's which are just as weak I know that I am immediately at a disadvantage. I was super excited by the idea of a new codex, I thought they would fix a lot of the problems with our 4th edition codex. Instead they made it worse. Warbikers got a bit better, but to make up for it they made Nob bikers useless. They ruined so much of the old codex that the new one is a completely new entity with 2-3 units that are worth a damn.

I don't want an easy mode button like the Eldar have, What I want though is to have my units not roll over and die to a stiff breeze.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Everyone wants to be Necrons/Eldar so they have a chance of beating Necrons/Eldar.

I wouldn't say everyone, and as an Ork player I have some measure of consideration for my opponent's enjoyment when playing the game. I laugh as much as my opponent when my boyz bonk each other on the head or when I roll double 1's for my Shokk Attack Gun. Necron RP are about as interactive as punching a brick wall. Although it'll never happen (cause da $$$), I still think its better to tone down OP things than try to raise everyone else to that level, it only highlights the issues of the armies "no-brainers" even moreso than fixing it (do you see any foot eldar lists going around? I just see people playing primarily with jetbikes and wraithknights). Even then some other faction's "OPness" will be better than another's. Look at Dark Angels right now. Ravenwing is seen as the only the good "competitive" build.

actually Yes, I have seen a fair amount of Footdar lists, and they kicked the crap out of who they were playing. Why? because even footdar got stupid huge buffs and now its harder to play against the "garbage" eldar units then ever before. So since the current trend is to buff every single unit in the game then why shouldn't every codex receive that treatment. And you can go on about how its better to tone things down but since that won't happen because GW made money off the Eldar/Necron model I don't see it as being useful.

Then let me ask you this. If another Ork codex comes in and they stay roughly the same in terms of tier (i.e. behind Eldar/Necrons), would you still bother playing Orks? Do you still have fun playing with them currently? I understand the desire for a better-written book but the desire for effective "OP"ness makes it seem as if though you care more about gaining access to an easier way of winning, rather than the army itself getting fixed up on its certain hang-ups and figuring out how to work past its weaknesses.

Yes, I love my Orks, I spent so much time collecting, fixing and painting them and I love how they look. I love playing my orks and everything about them. What I hate is that I go to play a game and unless im playing against 2 or so other Codex's which are just as weak I know that I am immediately at a disadvantage. I was super excited by the idea of a new codex, I thought they would fix a lot of the problems with our 4th edition codex. Instead they made it worse. Warbikers got a bit better, but to make up for it they made Nob bikers useless. They ruined so much of the old codex that the new one is a completely new entity with 2-3 units that are worth a damn.

I don't want an easy mode button like the Eldar have, What I want though is to have my units not roll over and die to a stiff breeze.

Fair enough, though I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how bad the current one is. Either way I'm looking forward to a better codex, just one I hope not nearly as overdone as Necrons or Eldar.

Orks are very good as is once you learn how to play the game, plain and simple.

I don't understand what lists or tactics people are using, but I can't think of a bad matchup for a solid built list. Any Yes, Bullyboys and Greentide are very good, but even using just the codex they are very powerful if built and played correctly.

I think most of the problems people seem to have stem from thinking "ORKS ARE GOOD AT ASSAULT, SO I NEED TO BE THERE ASAP AT ALL COSTS" which just isn't true anymore.

Btothefnrock wrote:
Orks are very good as is once you learn how to play the game, plain and simple.

I don't understand what lists or tactics people are using, but I can't think of a bad matchup for a solid built list. Any Yes, Bullyboys and Greentide are very good, but even using just the codex they are very powerful if built and played correctly.

I think most of the problems people seem to have stem from thinking "ORKS ARE GOOD AT ASSAULT, SO I NEED TO BE THERE ASAP AT ALL COSTS" which just isn't true anymore.

Dude i run pure Shoota boys, and i get wrecked with this new dex. My KFF doesnt cover me properly anymore and i dont have an Invuln in melee, which is super important. Oh and i run like 30 Lootas, so not a ton of Assault here and i cant run the Grotsnik bomb anymore.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So after a day of voting about 83% of the players believe that the Ork Codex is lower mid to bottom tier codex while 14% think its upper mid tier and lastly, 4 individuals or 3% think that the Ork Codex is top tier.

So with that in mind is their any chance we can now stop having the handful of people yelling and screaming at people talking of ways to improve the Ork Codex? Every single thread I have read about changing the Ork codex has 1-3 individuals who run in and immediately yell that the Orks are OP and if you can't win every game with them then L2P.

how about it folks?

There will always be people who make outrageous claims because they don't understand anecdotal evidence. "My Tau list consists of nothing but kroot units and Aun'shi... and I'm undefeated in my FLGS! Kroot are OP!"

Aggregate data is the only empirical evidence worth anything in discussions like these because a large enough sample size will account for anomalies like... the other players in your group being gak, for example. Or you just being a genius.

Thus, the importance of aggregate tournament results. Though with the amount of heavy house-ruling that's been going on at most GT's since the advent of 7th, even tournament results aren't very reliable anymore.

^do you have a painboy in those guys? KFF is kind of bad now.

And lootas are great and all, but 30 is kinda sweeeeet

varies on what kind of environment we are in and what kind of player you are, if your a super cheesy tournament runner than no. the ork codex is grade A awful argueably the worst codex currently available (omitting the militarium tempestus codex cause.. tempestus). the orks are in serious need of an overhaul if they want to put in work there.

if your a casual shmuck who plays with other casual shmucks on his weekends at the flgs with some rather random armies then you can roll some less than stellar lists that will do okay. if i had to put a number on how many times youd win it would probably be statistically 38/100 matches which isnt that bad when you consider the fact thae the norm for an army that needs a pick me up badly right is something like 41-43/100 like the dark eldar or the sisters of battle.

orks biggest problem is that so many things need to get reworked to be more practical. the codex is litered with impractical thinking on the part of the rules writers, and the supplement is an impracticality unto itself. everytime you read a rule, a unit datasheet, a formation explanation all you think it "this is impractical" and your forced to reach around anf fish out the units that are the least impractical and make an army from it. it makes me think their codex was a hardcore out the door rush job, its a good framework but a lot of essential components are missing to a good codex. i feel that if they get a codex update before a new BRB edition comes out the book will be considerably better and will probably rival the current marine codex or the current dark angels codex in terms of functionality and usefulness

Btothefnrock wrote:
Orks are very good as is once you learn how to play the game, plain and simple.

I don't understand what lists or tactics people are using, but I can't think of a bad matchup for a solid built list. Any Yes, Bullyboys and Greentide are very good, but even using just the codex they are very powerful if built and played correctly.

I think most of the problems people seem to have stem from thinking "ORKS ARE GOOD AT ASSAULT, SO I NEED TO BE THERE ASAP AT ALL COSTS" which just isn't true anymore.

So the fact that over 80% of this gaming community thinks your wrong and that the Ork Codex is one of the bottom tiers (Low mid to bottom) doesn't change your opinion huh? nor does the facts that we have shown time and again. Also as pointed out to you before, saying things like L2P isn't considered friendly on this forum so please stop.

 Crablezworth wrote:
There was sadly no hot garbage option so I put bottom tier.

This codex made me sell 4000+ points worth of lovingly converted and fully painted orks, I'll leave it at that.

Sorry dude.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
There was sadly no hot garbage option so I put bottom tier.

This codex made me sell 4000+ points worth of lovingly converted and fully painted orks, I'll leave it at that.

Sorry dude.

What the heck does this mean?

 vipoid wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
There was sadly no hot garbage option so I put bottom tier.

This codex made me sell 4000+ points worth of lovingly converted and fully painted orks, I'll leave it at that.

Sorry dude.

What the heck does this mean?

That I am sorry he had to sell his orks

Fair enough. The two facepalms threw me off a bit.

Look. Here's the truth of it: the orks are absolutely not in Necron/Eldar tier. No doubt about it, they are only on the level of Dark Angels when it comes to post-decurion dexes. But at the same time, you're both wearing rose-tinted lenses when it comes to the old Dex and playing the things that were strong last edition that you JUST said got Nerfed...and expecting to win.

What got weaker in the Ork Codex: Nobz, KFF Meks, Biker Nobz, Killa Kanz, Shoota Boyz, Trukks, Deffrollas. The only thing that escaped the purge was Lootas.

What got stronger: Warbikes, Tankbustas, Deffcoptas, Mek Gunz, Meganobz, Warbosses (with Da lucky Stikk), Deffbuggies, Doks, Ard Boyz, Flash Gitz

Orks gained the ability to be one of the best footslogging board-flood armies that currently exists, maybe the only one in the game at the moment. There were definite negatives and positives of the new edition. And just playing what got Nerfed and whining about it to nobody that can actually do anything (because believe me, NOOOOOOOOOBODY at GW knows or cares this forum exists) doesn't solve any of your problems.

We don't say "learn to play" because it will solve all your problems with a subpar codex. We say "learn to play" because beyond house ruling, it's the only way you'll be happier than you are with the game.

the_scotsman wrote:
Look. Here's the truth of it: the orks are absolutely not in Necron/Eldar tier. No doubt about it, they are only on the level of Dark Angels when it comes to post-decurion dexes. But at the same time, you're both wearing rose-tinted lenses when it comes to the old Dex and playing the things that were strong last edition that you JUST said got Nerfed...and expecting to win.

What got weaker in the Ork Codex: Nobz, KFF Meks, Biker Nobz, Killa Kanz, Shoota Boyz, Trukks, Deffrollas. The only thing that escaped the purge was Lootas.

What got stronger: Warbikes, Tankbustas, Deffcoptas, Mek Gunz, Meganobz, Warbosses (with Da lucky Stikk), Deffbuggies, Doks, Ard Boyz, Flash Gitz

Orks gained the ability to be one of the best footslogging board-flood armies that currently exists, maybe the only one in the game at the moment. There were definite negatives and positives of the new edition. And just playing what got Nerfed and whining about it to nobody that can actually do anything (because believe me, NOOOOOOOOOBODY at GW knows or cares this forum exists) doesn't solve any of your problems.

We don't say "learn to play" because it will solve all your problems with a subpar codex. We say "learn to play" because beyond house ruling, it's the only way you'll be happier than you are with the game.

I kind of agree with this. The 3 Ork players in my club have either quit the game or switched armies because what they enjoyed playing wasn't quite as good, or was somewhat different. They played the same, unoptimized lists all the time, expecting different outcomes. They never tried any of the new stuff, and I hate to say it, with a new codex comes the purchases of new models.

 krodarklorr wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Look. Here's the truth of it: the orks are absolutely not in Necron/Eldar tier. No doubt about it, they are only on the level of Dark Angels when it comes to post-decurion dexes. But at the same time, you're both wearing rose-tinted lenses when it comes to the old Dex and playing the things that were strong last edition that you JUST said got Nerfed...and expecting to win.

What got weaker in the Ork Codex: Nobz, KFF Meks, Biker Nobz, Killa Kanz, Shoota Boyz, Trukks, Deffrollas. The only thing that escaped the purge was Lootas.

What got stronger: Warbikes, Tankbustas, Deffcoptas, Mek Gunz, Meganobz, Warbosses (with Da lucky Stikk), Deffbuggies, Doks, Ard Boyz, Flash Gitz

Orks gained the ability to be one of the best footslogging board-flood armies that currently exists, maybe the only one in the game at the moment. There were definite negatives and positives of the new edition. And just playing what got Nerfed and whining about it to nobody that can actually do anything (because believe me, NOOOOOOOOOBODY at GW knows or cares this forum exists) doesn't solve any of your problems.

We don't say "learn to play" because it will solve all your problems with a subpar codex. We say "learn to play" because beyond house ruling, it's the only way you'll be happier than you are with the game.

I kind of agree with this. The 3 Ork players in my club have either quit the game or switched armies because what they enjoyed playing wasn't quite as good, or was somewhat different. They played the same, unoptimized lists all the time, expecting different outcomes. They never tried any of the new stuff, and I hate to say it, with a new codex comes the purchases of new models.

Once you get to a certain point in your collection, a new codex doesn't even really mean you'll have to buy new models... Once you've got 2500-3000+ pts, you should have enough toys to start re-giggling your lists and trying out new/different things when a new codex drops.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Look. Here's the truth of it: the orks are absolutely not in Necron/Eldar tier. No doubt about it, they are only on the level of Dark Angels when it comes to post-decurion dexes. But at the same time, you're both wearing rose-tinted lenses when it comes to the old Dex and playing the things that were strong last edition that you JUST said got Nerfed...and expecting to win.

What got weaker in the Ork Codex: Nobz, KFF Meks, Biker Nobz, Killa Kanz, Shoota Boyz, Trukks, Deffrollas. The only thing that escaped the purge was Lootas.

What got stronger: Warbikes, Tankbustas, Deffcoptas, Mek Gunz, Meganobz, Warbosses (with Da lucky Stikk), Deffbuggies, Doks, Ard Boyz, Flash Gitz

Orks gained the ability to be one of the best footslogging board-flood armies that currently exists, maybe the only one in the game at the moment. There were definite negatives and positives of the new edition. And just playing what got Nerfed and whining about it to nobody that can actually do anything (because believe me, NOOOOOOOOOBODY at GW knows or cares this forum exists) doesn't solve any of your problems.

We don't say "learn to play" because it will solve all your problems with a subpar codex. We say "learn to play" because beyond house ruling, it's the only way you'll be happier than you are with the game.

I kind of agree with this. The 3 Ork players in my club have either quit the game or switched armies because what they enjoyed playing wasn't quite as good, or was somewhat different. They played the same, unoptimized lists all the time, expecting different outcomes. They never tried any of the new stuff, and I hate to say it, with a new codex comes the purchases of new models.

Once you get to a certain point in your collection, a new codex doesn't even really mean you'll have to buy new models... Once you've got 2500-3000+ pts, you should have enough toys to start re-giggling your lists and trying out new/different things when a new codex drops.

Well, my friends had 2000+ points worth of stuff, but didn't feel like buying the new Mek Gun kits, or any more vehicles (my friend ran lists using only 1 trukk, and a blob of Ard boys running down the board. Like, just....ugh). So, I guess the root of it was just they didn't want to spend more money on a hobby, especially when they felt their codex wasn't worth it anymore.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So after a day of voting about 83% of the players believe that the Ork Codex is lower mid to bottom tier codex while 14% think its upper mid tier and lastly, 4 individuals or 3% think that the Ork Codex is top tier.

So with that in mind is their any chance we can now stop having the handful of people yelling and screaming at people talking of ways to improve the Ork Codex? Every single thread I have read about changing the Ork codex has 1-3 individuals who run in and immediately yell that the Orks are OP and if you can't win every game with them then L2P.

how about it folks?

"I took a biased poll from a website where people think BA and tyranids are bottom tier armies, look at my results"

Orks arent eldar, but they are a strong book with the ability to hold their own against other lists when played well.

I however cannot and will not be able to change whatever mental block you have or whatever your lived experiences are, but i know from seeing games be played and playing almoat every day, that orks are much better of of a codex then the internet or ork players want to admit.

Wait, they ran an ork blob with only one Trukk and they didn't just make them ard boyz with a Dok? That's like...zero effort right there.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So Top tier would be something like Craftworld Eldar/Necrons
Upper Middle would be something along the lines of Space Marines/Tau
Lower middle would be Blood Angels
Bottom Tier would be Tyrnids/CSM.

I don't want to derail the thread with a who's who of the most sucky army, but owning both large BA and CSM armies, I can assure you that it is far easier to build a more effective CSM army than a BA one. Maulerfiends and Plague Hulks (not that I own either) are far better than any dread BA can field, JuggerLords, Nurgle Biker Lords and DPs are miles better than any BA characters, the Dreadclaw is way cheaper than a Landraider and also more effective, Havocs can take spec weapons as well as heavies, Oblits, cheaper Termis with combi-weapon option, Nurgle Spawn, Nurgle and Khorne marks on bikers, Daemon Weapons, Helldrakes, Hellblades, conversion beamer Rapiers and Giant Spawn make for many decent choices.
I'm struggling far more with my BA than with my CSM's and would rate BA and CSM on the same tier if not then CSM being higher than BA. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying CSM are great or even good, but they are noticably better than BA imo.
Purely talking mono-build here. Some people may contradict me by using the taxi service example or various imperial allies... before you do, the OPs examples include things like 'Blood Angels', 'CSM', 'Necrons' etc... he did not say 'BA with skitarri allies', 'Eldar with Dark Eldar allies'. So based on the OP we are talking mono-builds.

I am really missing something I guess... I saw some one talk about kustom force field, which is not a great thing anymore... but I have heard not a single Ork player (other than btothefn) mention Mad doc grotsnik.

Look, if I took my marine army and I ran all tactical marines and scouts it would be a TERRIBLE army, and if I refused to listen and try something different, then it would continue to be a terrible army. What I have seen from reading through the ork player posts is that most of you are hammering the strength of the ENTIRE codex based on the Decurion formation, Scatter bike, and Gladius Strike force... So, essentially you are upset that your entire codex can not stand up against THREE builds, thats it, three...

However, when given ideas of things to try all you reply is that it doesn't matter they are bad and it won't matter. However, I do not believe that Marines in any mono-codex style can beat a competitive ork army.

To the guy running the mob of shoota boys, if that is the only scary thing on the board then it is a non-issue... however, drop Doc in it, then put some other serious threats on the board and you will start presenting problems... The goal of the ork army should be to create an impossible target priority scenario, because the lists that you are mentioning are not going to have the numbers to deal with 4-5 real threats. (I will give it to you, not sure what to do about a wraith knight, stompa maybe but I am really not sure, and the stompa costs twice as much).

As far as learning to play comments... that is not the right way to say it... We should be telling you to learn how to play your army better... which is something everyone needs... so if that is offensive then I am sorry, and I would assume you grew up getting trophies even when you came in last place.

So before you even reply... get out of your head... go play a game in the next day or so with some of the changes that have been recommended and play it with the open mind of it is going to work. Furthermore, I think a lot of players in this game shut them selves down mentally more than anything or other player could... just keep it open minded and think that you can win... try new strategies, play numerous games with the strategies... and here is an idea... ASK for advice... do not just come on here thinking you have the worst codex on earth when there are numerous players who are having fun and winning games...

die toten hosen wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So after a day of voting about 83% of the players believe that the Ork Codex is lower mid to bottom tier codex while 14% think its upper mid tier and lastly, 4 individuals or 3% think that the Ork Codex is top tier.

So with that in mind is their any chance we can now stop having the handful of people yelling and screaming at people talking of ways to improve the Ork Codex? Every single thread I have read about changing the Ork codex has 1-3 individuals who run in and immediately yell that the Orks are OP and if you can't win every game with them then L2P.

how about it folks?

"I took a biased poll from a website where people think BA and tyranids are bottom tier armies, look at my results"

Orks arent eldar, but they are a strong book with the ability to hold their own against other lists when played well.

I however cannot and will not be able to change whatever mental block you have or whatever your lived experiences are, but i know from seeing games be played and playing almoat every day, that orks are much better of of a codex then the internet or ork players want to admit.

BA are a bottom tier army. Who is worse?

the_scotsman wrote:
Look. Here's the truth of it: the orks are absolutely not in Necron/Eldar tier. No doubt about it, they are only on the level of Dark Angels when it comes to post-decurion dexes. But at the same time, you're both wearing rose-tinted lenses when it comes to the old Dex and playing the things that were strong last edition that you JUST said got Nerfed...and expecting to win.

What got weaker in the Ork Codex: Nobz, KFF Meks, Biker Nobz, Killa Kanz, Shoota Boyz, Trukks, Deffrollas. The only thing that escaped the purge was Lootas.

What got stronger: Warbikes, Tankbustas, Deffcoptas, Mek Gunz, Meganobz, Warbosses (with Da lucky Stikk), Deffbuggies, Doks, Ard Boyz, Flash Gitz

Orks gained the ability to be one of the best footslogging board-flood armies that currently exists, maybe the only one in the game at the moment. There were definite negatives and positives of the new edition. And just playing what got Nerfed and whining about it to nobody that can actually do anything (because believe me, NOOOOOOOOOBODY at GW knows or cares this forum exists) doesn't solve any of your problems.

We don't say "learn to play" because it will solve all your problems with a subpar codex. We say "learn to play" because beyond house ruling, it's the only way you'll be happier than you are with the game.

While this is vaild, over half my boyz where shoota boyz, i have no Meganobz (and i really dont wanna get any as good lord their expensive), no Warbikes (i dont like them), no Deffkoptas, no Buggies, and only 1 Dok. I would pretty much have to rebuild my frelling army, and i really dont want to do that.

Also the Grotsnik bomb no longer works properly because of the changes to Cybork body, the Invuln save is what made them stupid durable.

Sadly GW is a modeling company that makes a set of rules to go with the models that they make. The bikes are probably one of the best things in your codex (but they are expensive dollar wise), so it sounds to me like if you want to make changes to the outcomes of your games (since you do not want to build your army out for the good models in the codex, which I understand as it is an expensive endeavor) then perhaps the answer is to talk to your opponent and have them build their list down to the comp level of yours...

Such as if I played you I would definitely rock out with less powerful stuff, like assault squads and tact marines... captain would just be a captain with nothing on him and so on...

The game is all about fun, and obviously you do not think you are going to show up to play at hard core tourney's, so just talk to your opponent and let them know you are looking for a good, fun, and fluffy game. If they are not willing to oblige then I would honestly say to play someone else... plus, if they are running hyper competitive lists because they want to test them, as them how they are testing it against yours when they already know the outcome (barring some crazy dice rolling).

Also, look at running two combat arms detachments in order to double up on your HQ choices that can be very brutal... I do not remember the last time I played against an ork army with 2 HQ's (4 being the standard)

Plus Mad Doc still works, he just has to go some where else, such as deep in the boys and allows them to be much more durable... however, he needs to be in a mob of 20-30... any less than that an it is a waste... and again, other threats keep them protected.

Martel732 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So after a day of voting about 83% of the players believe that the Ork Codex is lower mid to bottom tier codex while 14% think its upper mid tier and lastly, 4 individuals or 3% think that the Ork Codex is top tier.

So with that in mind is their any chance we can now stop having the handful of people yelling and screaming at people talking of ways to improve the Ork Codex? Every single thread I have read about changing the Ork codex has 1-3 individuals who run in and immediately yell that the Orks are OP and if you can't win every game with them then L2P.

how about it folks?

"I took a biased poll from a website where people think BA and tyranids are bottom tier armies, look at my results"

Orks arent eldar, but they are a strong book with the ability to hold their own against other lists when played well.

I however cannot and will not be able to change whatever mental block you have or whatever your lived experiences are, but i know from seeing games be played and playing almoat every day, that orks are much better of of a codex then the internet or ork players want to admit.

BA are a bottom tier army. Who is worse?

Martel I've just read the debate you had where some posters said BA can ally with other IoM armies, so BA can't be considered poor. If anyone does that in future, just remind them that Nids can ally with IKs, Tau can ally with Skitarri, Orks can ally with Eldar, CSM can ally with Mechanicus. In fact, anyone can ally with anyone, so if we use their logic, EVERYONE is a top tier dex.

I read your post about CSM vs BA. Both enlightening and depressing.

Martel732 wrote:
I read your post about CSM vs BA. Both enlightening and depressing.

Yeh, because there there has been a common consensus for a while that CSMs are the worst, it has kind of stuck as a given on the internet. IA:13 did a lot to change that, benefitting CSMs a lot more than IA:2 benefitted BA. CSMs aren't great but they are playable, whereas BA are struggling in the current meta even more than CSMs due to grav, other low ap weapons, high cost of fast fragile assault units (in the past 2-3 months SG have become unplayable... once again), lack of fast beatsticks outside of Dante and inability to deal with the main assault units of the game (TWC, Lychguard, Necron Wraiths, IKs, Wraithknights etc) through either close combat prowess or tarpitting (the latter doesn't exist).

Thyhadras wrote:

What I have seen from reading through the ork player posts is that most of you are hammering the strength of the ENTIRE codex based on the Decurion formation, Scatter bike, and Gladius Strike force... So, essentially you are upset that your entire codex can not stand up against THREE builds, thats it, three...

No, I don't think that's true. I don't think Ork players want to be unbalanced powerful like the Decurion. We just want to be able to win games. I'm not upset at ALL that my Ork army can't compete against Gladius, Scatter bike and Decurion... because other than Decurion, I've never PLAYED against those lists.

I play CASUAL games, man. My Tyranid friend tends to be a bit "competitive" but he doesn't throw tournament level lists at me most of the time. Here's the last few armies I played against as my Orks:

Eldar (Gave my friend my Eldar models to use.... trust me it's not an optimized Eldar list)
Necrons (Decurion, Flayed Ones, Annihilation barges, couple other things)
Tyranids (couple flying hive tyrants, a tervigon, a mawloc, a bunch of gaunts, a Malenthrope...)
Tau (Fire Warriors, some devil fish, hammerhead, Riptide, some crisis suits, pathfinders, kroot...)
Space Marines (Before the latest codex - a few tactical squads, some devastaors, some terminators, bikes, etc)

Do any of those lists sound competitive? Necrons don't have to TRY to be competitive, they just bring the Decurion and can win. So I won't even talk about that one. The only game out of all those games that I won was one game against the Tyranids. The only reason I won it was because of a trifecta of good luck: I rolled lucky with my Maelstrom objectives, we were playing a Maelstrom game that favored my deployment, and his Hive Tyrants had to waste time shooting at my Grots that were holding objectives because I was racking up so many points.

Besides that game, I've had multiple losses to all those armies, taken in various mixes. Other than the Tyranid game mentioned above, I had a statistical tie with 6th Edition Necrons. Most of the time when I lose, it's not even close. The game is over by turn 3 or 4.

The fact is that my opponents can put pretty much whatever they want on the table. They can just put down an "all-comers" list, and do really well against my Orks. As Orks? I have to list-tailor like there's no tomorrow, and squeeze my codex for every tactical advantage I can get out of, and I still lose. About the only thing I haven't done is field Bully Boyz or Green Tide.

We're not judging the strength of the Ork Codex against top tournament lists or anything like that. It's just a plain FACT that the Ork codex is not as powerful as most of the other codexes out there. I wish I still had a Chaos Space Marine player to play against, we'd probably have some really cool close games!

Back in 5th Edition, Orks were awesome. I won about as often as I lost, and either way, we had LOTS of cool games that came right down to the wire at the end of turn 6 or turn 7, with both sides only having a few units left on the board. That's the kind of experience I want to get back.