So... Scum Epic Ship... I have too much stuff in my head. (my ongoing thread, eh?)

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**Peregrine**

I'd play some more games with the list before concluding that it sucks. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to win, even in a metagame that lacks turrets or rebel/scum lists. Also, autothrusters is a good upgrade even without turrets. Automatic evades are incredibly powerful, so even if you're only getting them on range-3 shots that's still a lot of potential value for a mere two points. And remember, one of the most dangerous points in the game for elite ships is the opening turn of the approach where dodging arcs is the hardest. Three greens + auto-focus + auto-blank + regen makes it likely that you'll get Poe through the opening exchange in good shape.

**Mathieu Raymond**

As I said. I won the game, the amount of fire that Poe endured before he went down allowed the rest of the list to be uncatcheable (if that's a word). I do think the list is a great all-rounder, as it was able to survive the loss of its ace handily. The fact that Vader flew over the same asteroid twice and got damage twice did help, I won't lie.

I realize the value of the 2 pts autothrusters cost, it's just more of a "if it happens, cool" upgrade. I tend to face aces with 5 evade dice at range 3, often with an evade and focus token.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Peregrine wrote:
I'd play some more games with the list before concluding that it sucks.

Yeah, that list definitely doesn't suck. My friend has been playing lately and has done pretty well with it.

**TheNewBlood**

Concerning the current meta: from what I have read on the FFG forums, the game is currently dominated by two upgrades/weapons: the Twin Laser Turret and Autothrusters. i keep hearing that these two upgrades are mandatory and any ship that can't take one or the other is useless. Is this true?

**ScootyPuffJunior**

That depends.

If you're one of the people that thinks because those upgrades were featured in the winning Worlds list means they're inherently better than everything else, then yes.

Otherwise, no.

**Peregrine**

TheNewBlood wrote:
Concerning the current meta: from what I have read on the FFG forums, the game is currently dominated by two upgrades/weapons: the Twin Laser Turret and Autothrusters. i keep hearing that these two upgrades are mandatory and any ship that can't take one or the other is useless. Is this true?

It's not true at all. Both are obviously powerful upgrades, but they aren't literally auto-win. TLTs are really efficient damage with a 360* arc, and that makes them the current standard for the "efficient generics" part of the metagame. And TLTs put a lot of pressure on agility-dependent ships to stack up tons of defense to counter all of the red dice they're facing. So, for example, Soontir Fel has a big advantage over Vader since both have the same tokens and dice but Fel has an auto-evade against every shot. But not every matchup involves TLTs, and VI Vader beats Fel in a 1v1. The main constraint of TLTs + autothrusters is that if you aren't going to bring one of the meta-defining concepts you need to be sure that your list can handle TLT spam and high-agility aces with automatic evades.

**martin74**

Yes, TLT and auto thrusters are two of the most powerful and often seen upgrades. However, they are not an auto win if you put them in your builds.

How to beat TLT, get in close. Can't fire that off at range 1. I will admit, the scum y-wings with the unhinged makes it difficult with a ll green 3 movements. But, it can be done.

How to beat Autothrusters, once again, get in close, but not too close. Keep those interceptors, T-70s, and others at range two if possible.

I will admit, I do use auto thrusters on my Iggy squad, and why wouldn't I. I do find that glitter stem is very abusive upgrade. It negates alot of shots and helps your shots, just one turn so it doesn't seem as overpowered. Auto thrusters just does it over a game.

**Mathieu Raymond**

The simple fact that I mentionned the Wild Karde has been trotting in my head. So I figured if I can weather the inevitable assault from scale grognards, I would have it roughly the same length as a GR-75 (the model) because having it as big as a Corvette would be a bit weird (even though, let's face it, if you're going to haul stuff across the interstellar gulf, you might as well go big).

I have the small Starship Battles model, which I am using as a jump-off point. I do not know Epic ships enough to know how to price it, or how to define its options. I know it is supposed to be rather slow and ponderous, be well armoured, pack in hidden turbolasers and a small bay for at least one one-man ship or a shuttle.

I was thinking of making it a normal Action VI freighter with scenarios along the GR-75 ship, but then give it a beefier title to bring it up to the Wild Karde.

Any help?

**Anpu-adom**

Wookiepedia has the Karde at 125m. The CR-90 is 150m and GR-75 is 90m.
It would be split into Fore and Aft sections (An Action IV would not be).
The Fore Section
0
0
6
4
No guns and less hull then the Corvette (35 points)

Aft
4
0
6
4
Less energy and hull than the Corvette (40 Points)

The title Wild Karde would add guns to the fore section as well as extra hull all around

**Siygess**

Ah the Wild Karde.. sadly, the most likely Scum ship to get that treatment since it is both big and reasonably well known.. too bad it looks like a flying toolbox

I'd love to see a Doomtreader, but I think that's probably too obscure even for FFG.

**Mathieu Raymond**

Thanks Anpu-adom. I'm going to put it on the back-burner until next week as pre-Xmas is putting a pinch on my crafting time until my next day off.

So far I have the rough shape of the front end done in foamcore, and the lower part of the mid-hull. I'm trying to find a tube that is about 5 to 6 inches long, but only 3/4 of an inch in diameter. Something not too exotic that I could find in every day life.

**Siygess**

If you are willing to pony up the cash, you can always get the version that Mel Miniatures made over on Shapeways. I have concerns about the material but I know AAN ordered some smaller ships from Shapeways and did a great job with them.

Personally I'm really tempted to get his Rogue Shadow and YV-929!

**Mathieu Raymond**

It's nice, but I'd rather make my own. Idles hands and all that jazz. The worse part is, it's only about 20$ more than a Corvette with the sucky Canadian exchange rate at the moment.

But no, I want to see how detailed I can make it before I lose my gak.

**Mathieu Raymond**

So the Wild Karrde is progressing slowly.

My wife bought me an IG-2000. In the spirit of humouring her, I decided to learn to use that ship. To very mitigated results. I'm not used to big bases and I ran all over the place, plus Vader unloaded prockets in my hindquarter that robbed me of all shields.

Anyway, I came up with this build to handle imperial aces. The bug zapper part works. I was wondering if the combination of expert handling (seen as meh most of the time) can be useful on a big base, and with stress being cleared right away. Sure, action economy is still poor but the potential to mitigate a bad maneuver on my part seems necessary in this learning curve.

IG-88B (36)
Expert Handling (2)
Advanced Sensors (3)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Feedback Array (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Feedback Array (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Feedback Array (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Total: 99

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As always, be blunt.