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Only one Scyk? I never leave home without at least two. I'm fact my HWK / Scyk / Scyk list is by far my favourite.. where each Scyk rocks in at 33 points lol

I almost fainted when I read that.

Surely you jest?

Seems like a list that would be fun to try.
How are you going to fly it?

I was thinking of keeping the Y-Wings on a side, separate from the rest of the pack long enough for them to speed forward (ah!) and drop their payload to clog up the lanes for those pesky imperials. Once that is done, I would have them regroup and take over for the Z-95, which could then fly off together and somewhat hunt down whatever refuses to come and play.

I'd start my initial formation as such:

Z (about 1.5 range) Z
(middle) P X

This is to account for the different PS of the fighters and keep enough of a bubble to steal tokens. The formation would go rather slow, to keep up with the HWK, and to maximize the number of focus tokens put aside for later use.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I almost fainted when I read that.

Surely you jest?

Ha! Not at all.

2x Tansarii Point Veterans (Opportunist, Stealth Device, HLC, Heavy Scyk title)
1x Palob Godalhi (Predator, TLT, Shield Upgrade, Greedo)

If something comes near the HWK, one of the Scyks will be shooting at it for 5 dice. Meanwhile the HWK is plinking away at anything in range. Greedo has.. heh.. been kind of a pain but it's a fun list and the only thing that has really hurt me so far has been my consistent ability to roll 2 hits on 5 dice, even with target locks..

 Siygess wrote:


2x Tansarii Point Veterans (Opportunist, Stealth Device, HLC, Heavy Scyk title)
1x Palob Godalhi (Predator, TLT, Shield Upgrade, Greedo)

If something comes near the HWK, one of the Scyks will be shooting at it for 5 dice. Meanwhile the HWK is plinking away at anything in range. Greedo has.. heh.. been kind of a pain but it's a fun list and the only thing that has really hurt me so far has been my consistent ability to roll 2 hits on 5 dice, even with target locks..

I actually really want to get a 2nd Scyk to perform shenanigans like this

In my last game it came down to Soontir Fel with PTL and one other upgrade that meant it was the same cost as my last Scyk. They were in a dogfight for about eight turns and I was pretty happy with the ships performance even if it didn't have all the tokens each turn that Soontir did.

So the Scyk would work well if chalked under the category of "go big or go home"... interesting.

I was trying different builds but as soon as I would see them near 25 pts, I'd just erase everything.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So the Scyk would work well if chalked under the category of "go big or go home"... interesting.

No. They're a garbage ship, probably the worse one in the game.

"Can it work?" is much different question than "Is it worth the point cost?"; the former is a yes, the latter is a no.

At least I got a mangler cannon out of it.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So the Scyk would work well if chalked under the category of "go big or go home"... interesting.

Nope. The HLC scyk can "work" against some lists (very slow ones like b-wings), but against a good player it's just way too easy to rush into range 1 where the HLC scyk is completely screwed. And its best-case scenario is usually matching its point cost, not the kind of dominance you'd expect from good ships. I don't think I've ever seen a scyk of any kind perform well enough that I'd want one in my list.

I played against three scyks in a 90 point game at an escalation tournament. I had dash and two a wings. Dash took 1shield off 1 scyk. The a wings did the rest in 6 turns overall.
My first experience with them and it put me off ever buying one

I think it really depends on what you are looking for. The Scyk is never going to be a great ship, the kind you pretty much have to have in a list if you want to rank near the top.. or the kind of ship that will make people groan and leave them wanting to complain on a forum about how OP it is.

Some people view a ship purely in those terms, and argue that if you are going to spend a bunch of points to make ship x behave like ship y, then you should just fly ship y.

I can see the logic in that, sure, but with one exception where I was out by turn 3 I have always held my own with scyks. In a 2 vs 2 game they took down 2 A-Wings, a Z-95, Wedge and banged up Luke some before the B-Wings moved in from the other side of the table and destroyed them. In my last game vs Soontir Fel, Carnor Jax and a Shadow Squadron Pilot they matched it and it went down to the wire, with the Vet and Fel both trying to get the last hit on each other.. and these are just the times I've lost with them. They have won plenty of games too.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, it has always been my preference to fly ships that I like, and then find a way to have a good game with them. With the Scyks (and HWK) it is absolutely possible.

 Siygess wrote:
Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, it has always been my preference to fly ships that I like, and then find a way to have a good game with them. With the Scyks (and HWK) it is absolutely possible.

Well yeah, that's because the Scum HWKs are great.

I know the Scyk is a crap ship, I do, but I still love to fly them. I don't do tournaments or anything, so it's not really a big deal to me if I play a crap list.

That said, in double scyk list I would swap the HLCs for Manglers to save 6 points and eliminate the R1 donut hole. Since Palob's ability is R1-2 and HLCs are R2-3, you're basically forced to either separate your HWK or stay at R2. Leaves you enough points for Moldy Crow on Palob (to hold onto those tokens he steals) and either ID and 2 point Initiative bid or Glitterstim and a 1 point bid.

You could also go full bore and swap down to Autoblasters if you were truly crazy, but I'm no sure how long you'd survive IN R1 let alone getting there.

Yeah I originally had.. Dace with the Autoblaster, Engine Upgrade and Saboteur and two support Scyks with Ion Cannons.. but I am super, super bad at rolling dice which is why I usually stick with the HLCs. 3 primary dice at range one (or 4 with Opportunist) isn't so bad... and maxing dice - with re-rolls - is the only way I ever seem to be able to hit anything.

 streamdragon wrote:
That said, in double scyk list I would swap the HLCs for Manglers to save 6 points and eliminate the R1 donut hole.

IMO the only thing worse than a HLC scyk is a mangler scyk. The HLC version is a glass cannon with a fatal blind spot, but at least in theory it can justify its point cost if you're very careful with your maneuvering and use other ships to "pin" your targets in place for a good HLC shot. The mangler version, on the other hand, will never be good. So if you absolutely have to take scyks you should at least take the version that has a chance of being a successful ship.

I've been thinking about what... someone else said earlier in the thread. If I use the Y-wings as bodyguards, I could forego the expense of Binayre Pirates just for expendable HP, and instead use Y-wings that can hurt all the way in, and drop a surprise once they reach turnover. So far I have this instead.

Prince Xizor (31)
Push the Limit (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Blaster Turret (4)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Ion Bombs (2)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Blaster Turret (4)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Ion Bombs (2)

Palob Godalhi (20)
Calculation (1)
Blaster Turret (4)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Moldy Crow (3)

N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Lone Wolf (2)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Glitterstim (2)

Total: 150

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I realize I have a second HWK dial from the original pack, so I could "proxy" one more, maybe instead of the 8-dice attack wonderboy. Or replace Palob with a naked Firespray, as long as I remove extra munitions on the Y-Wings. Which, I figure, won't last all that long. I could use flechette torps too, but I figure three different secondary weapons on those is most probably overkill.

So, a couple of things that stand out to me:

1) N'dru is probably not a very good option unless you're playing on a larger table. With 50% more ships on a standard 3x3 table you're going to have a lot more problems with keeping him away from everyone else while still making him useful. If you can keep him away he's still almost as awesome as ever (though more vulnerable to being killed before he can shoot), but you'll have to be very careful in your deployment and initial moves.

2) Your upgrades aren't very efficient:

Xizor doesn't really have the greens to use PTL effectively. Corran can get away with using PTL every turn without green 90* turns because he can take a ridiculous beating while trying to turn around and get another shot, but Xizor can't. You probably want VI instead to maximize his arc-dodging potential, and you might want to consider using a sensor jammer instead of the FCS.

The y-wings need better turrets. Blaster turrets look ok on paper, but they're way too vulnerable to any kind of action denial. Any stress/bumping/etc turns those y-wings into useless paperweights. Instead you want at least ion turrets (possibly with the A4 title) and probably TLTs. That makes your y-wings much more consistent and minimizes the chances of them having useless turns.

The ion bombs are kind of questionable. If you can get a good drop with enough ships to take advantage of the predictable moves they're not terrible, but that's hard to do in my experience. Seismic charges are cheap and usually more effective, while conner nets are more expensive but awesome.

Calculation on Palob is a waste. It's barely better than just using a focus action, and you're never going to want to spend two focus tokens in one turn when your gun requires one to shoot. In fact, I'm not really convinced that Palob is a great idea at 150 points. He's a huge priority target, and I don't think he has the defense to survive focused fire at 150 points. If you really want to use him keep him cheap, an ion turret or TLT and that's it. He's almost certainly going to die before he can make good use of any other upgrades.

We'll be playing on a 4' x 4' table, because of the extra ship. My employee is super stoked at getting to paint a nebula on it too. Artists, it takes so little to please them.

I was toying with VI instead, so I might go ahead and do that. Free up more points.

The Ys are not getting the title because I know my friends have the newfound loves of their lives, A-wing and Interceptors, so I know they will try to dodge arcs as much as possible. I could switch to Ion turrets and drop the bombs (or at least the extra bombs)

I agree that Palob could be leaner. But if I do use another turret, I might as well downgrade the pilot too, since I might want to use the TLT, and Palob's ability doesn't quite jive with it as much. So I could use Dace Bonearm with a TLT. I can keep him back a bit.

I have 4 points left.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
We'll be playing on a 4' x 4' table, because of the extra ship.

In that case N'dru should be fine.

The Ys are not getting the title because I know my friends have the newfound loves of their lives, A-wing and Interceptors, so I know they will try to dodge arcs as much as possible. I could switch to Ion turrets and drop the bombs (or at least the extra bombs)

The main problem here is autothrusters. Your blaster or ion turrets aren't going to hurt an a-wing or interceptor with an out of arc shot anyway, so you might as well hit them twice inside your arc. Even TLTs struggle against tons of green dice, focus + evade stacks, and autothrusters.

But if I do use another turret, I might as well downgrade the pilot too, since I might want to use the TLT, and Palob's ability doesn't quite jive with it as much. So I could use Dace Bonearm with a TLT. I can keep him back a bit.

It's not quite that bad. Palob's ability is short range only, but you aren't necessarily shooting at the same target that you strip a token from. And very often what Palob really does is act as area denial and keep important ships outside of a range 1-2 bubble, which means your shooting is range 3 anyway. But if you don't like Palob I wouldn't take Dace either, his pilot ability just plain sucks. Palob hanging back and acting as area denial is still going to be a much better option. If it's Dace or nothing then take a different ship (the Firespray maybe, or another y-wing if you have another model).

I only have 2 Ys at the moment. And no time to get to a shop that sells (or the budget to allocate, for that matter).

I agree with your assessment of autothrusters, but two things have to be considered in my meta 1) they dislike playing with cards they don't have. So far I am the only one with a StarViper in the group. 2) They don't see the value of autothrusters because they don't use turrets ( they don,t have the models that can sport one). Like them, I very much preferred, say, a shield upgrade (with R2-D2 or R5-P9 on top) because none of my opponents fire out of arc (not one) and I constantly get bumped into so they can bring their primary weapons into range 1. So unless I am making constant, careful efforts to stay at range 3 or so, its conditions rarely applied.

It's going to take time for them to develop a different strategy, I think. So in the meantime I still plan for autothrusters, for once my meta changes, but right now, it's wasted points. But turrets are still a good investment at the moment.

It's far from being Dace or nothing. I could use the HWK as a generic Spice Runner and save on points, at this pace. But if I do remove him altogether, and just run a generic Mando Merc, I know that ship is going to attract a lot of firepower, just by virtue of being on a big base. Regardless if it is tooled up or not. I think I just know where my opponents are psychologically. They will completely ignore N'Dru because he doesn't represent a big number of red dice on the surface (and we play with open cards, as it should be). All they'll see is the big silhouette of the Firespray.

Torkil Mux is probably my favorite Scum HWK pilot. He may not have the EPT slot that the other named HWKs do, but his pilot ability is a great way to deal with the issue of PS bid on your pilots. You may still move first, but move first/shoot first isn't a terrible combination.

The two points you save (1 for downgrading from Palob to Torkil, 1 for not taking Calculation) can be used to upgrade your Blaster turret to a TLT.

I'm still 4 points under (I decided to let go extra munitions).

I could give N'dru an Engine Upgrade, but then I fear he'll start drawing too much attention.

The game is afoot. The Rebel player had to drop out, but my Imperial opponent has offered to fill in the 150 pts all by himself.

I feel a bunch of arc dodgers are going to be coming my way. I bought a Khiraxz today. At least I'll have glitterstim officially.

N'Dru will be on the hunt for either his Firespray or his Lambda shuttle.

 Peregrine wrote:

Even TLTs struggle against tons of green dice, focus + evade stacks, and autothrusters

I was just thinking, kavil with TLT and Latts Razzi would be an expensive yet effective way against high agility ships with autothrusters. I'm going try it out sometime when I'm against a 2 ship list with fel or equivalent for giggles.

kavil gets 4 dice, burn the first TLT attack to get rid of tokens on 2nd attack use Latts to reduce agility by one then attack with 4 more dice. A ship with autothrusters and stealth device would have a rough time. Latts with the 180 arc would at least get a few shots in...maybe.

But then again your burning a latts target lock for 1 damage... lol oh well for the giggles it is!

I think the problem with that approach is that yeah, you've got a nasty counter to Fel, but what do you do against other targets? Corran can tank your 1-2 damage per turn, b-wing spam just laughs at your over-investment in countering Fel, etc. And even Fel isn't out there alone. Let's say your opponent brings Fel and a mini-swarm, they can afford to throw the basic TIEs at Kavil (while Fel hides in the corner) and bring him down in a turn or two because even if they lose everyone but Fel in the process that one ship can finish off whatever you have left.

As a general rule, once you start saying things like "here's my awesome combo to beat X" in X-Wing it's almost guaranteed that you're building a bad list. With only 100 points you just can't afford to focus too much on one potential threat, and spending two ships on the job is almost certainly over the line.

Welp.

It went a lot better than expected. Although I had some really mitigated second turn rolls (and lost N'dru quite fast), I ended up winning the game by a wide margin. I had a Y, my StarViper and my Firespray on the table at the end, with only some shields lost.

He flew, Soontir, Carnor, Zertik, Juno and Dark Curse. They all had Stealth Devices, the Ints had PTL and autothrusters on top, Juno had an ATC, Zertic an AC.

What saved my bacon was that, for some reason, he decided to fly in formation, So he barely dodged arcs. He waltzed right into the path of my seismic charges, trying to hammer at the Ys one at a time while I kept them tight, and kept firing ion turret shots back at him. So I might have helped with the waltzing into the bombs. Then he did some bad maneuvers straight into asteroids.

The Segnor Loop was great fun to throw at him. I could pinpoint my movement thanks to ion damage, and the last few turns were pro forma. I was really lucky, except when it came to N'dru's dice at the beginning, I was barely able to ping off a shield (and Stealth Device) off Zertik with my cluster missiles. I'm never giving him an Engine Upgrade again. I'll probably end up putting a few more points into the Mando Merc, as he was adequate, if a bit lackluster.

So I played this last night:

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Poe Dameron (31)
Veteran Instincts (1)
R5-P9 (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Kyle Katarn (21)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Recon Specialist (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

...and fared moderately well. I won the game, but it was not satisfying. I lost Poe on turn 2 because he focused his fire on him and, well, his upgrades were completely wrong for this match. Which brings me to my conundrum, I know what kind of lists wins tournaments, and what seems to be good value for an unknown opponent.

Knowing my enemies never use the Decimator (for a variety of reasons) and that they only want to play Imperials, I feel like I am wasting points on Autothrusters. I have to hand it to SPJ and Peregrine, though, a fully loaded A-wing unloading prockets can wipe the smirk off someone's face. But it has to be with a TL and focus tokens, because otherwise... I'd have had a meh roll (from 2 natural hits to 3 hits and 2 crits). Which was just enough to turn Soontir into a "no hard turning, 0 PS" mess.

I feel like maybe I ought to have stacked more focus tokens on Poe? One was barely enough to keep him alive, and I never could keep it until I regenerated a shield. So I'm going to be all hipster and say "local, man, local. It's more sustainable."

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I feel like maybe I ought to have stacked more focus tokens on Poe? One was barely enough to keep him alive, and I never could keep it until I regenerated a shield. So I'm going to be all hipster and say "local, man, local. It's more sustainable."

Poe only needs one focus token as you shouldn't spend it unless you know you aren't going to be attacked or you don't need to regen a shield. I mean, if you roll a range 1 shot and get four eyeballs, then you should spend it and hope your defense roll is a good one!

That's why he works well with Kyle; when you activate Poe you can use your action for a target lock or to re-position and then have Kyle hand him a focus token. If you don't need to do any other action for Poe, you can focus and then allow Kyle to pass a focus to Jake instead.