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 Dozer Blades wrote:
"...you can not deny that GW sometimes messes up their rules, but if there is a reasonable interpretation supported by RAW you have to stick to that if possible."

So it sounds to me like you are rules lawyering. There is virtually no reason to use SoF by your interpretation.

That is exactly what is going on.. RAW vs RAI ending in no actual answer, and everyone still allowing their opponents to do it anyway

Obviously not everyone.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
"...you can not deny that GW sometimes messes up their rules, but if there is a reasonable interpretation supported by RAW you have to stick to that if possible."

So it sounds to me like you are rules lawyering. There is virtually no reason to use SoF by your interpretation.

Rules lawyering? This is still YMDC? Question to you: Can a Hovering flyer move more than 6 inches?

The rule should have been updated to modern times, it hasn't been.

How we have houseruled it: Disembarking via Deep Strike while Zooming is allowed. On the other hand we also require that a homing beacon is actually placed during the movement phase (we have models for that .

OP did ask for the correct rule Interpretation, ofc you can houserule it...

That is just your opinion though. As you might have noticed not everyone agrees.

The difference is, that I have proofen my point. You just say "thats how I play it because reasons"

If you are happy with your interpretation that is great for you but it doesn't mean you have a quorum here.

ofc not, neither of us does. I am actually glad, that rules discussions don't get decided by vote.
It just bothers me, that you "just disagree" without being able to provide any strong arguments.
You still fail to provide any part of the rule that overrides the BRBs rule regarding disembarking from zooming flyers.

I pointed out the general structure and system the rules work with each other in general and in particular regarding skies of fury.
I disproofed your point regarding interceptor and overwatch.

All you came up with is "well that sounds like rule lawyerring" and "than that's your opinion".
Gues what: this is a rule discussion, what else would it be if not rule lawyering? The whole purpose of threads like these is rule lawyering to find a definite answer to a relevant question.
It's not like we are in the middle of a game and this discussion suddenly comes up.

So either you come up with some facts or arguments or you keep sticking your fingers in your ears and keep shouting "I can't hear you"

Skies of fury has you disembark models and place as if dsing.

We are not told they are dsing, or count as dsing.

Locater beacon works for units arriving by ds, which are units arriving from ds reserves, not disembarking. The unit is already arrived by virtue of being on the table embarked on a transport, so they are not arriving by dsing, they are being placed from disembark using ds rules for placement.

So no locater beacon benefit.

Wow that is so wrong and for multiple reasons. If walks like a duck and talks like a duck... Well you know.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Wow that is so wrong and for multiple reasons. If walks like a duck and talks like a duck... Well you know.

It's a daemon, burn it?

SJ

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Wow that is so wrong and for multiple reasons. If walks like a duck and talks like a duck... Well you know.

disembarking using the placement for deepstrike is not the same as arriving by deepstrike.

The disembarked models are not arriving by deepstrike. They are not arriving at all as they are already on the battlefield (arrived) embarked in a transport.

I understand you want the rule to work a certain way to remove the chance of units having ill effects from doing something risky, but there is no actual rules support for locater beacon benefiting models that are not arriving by deepstrike.

yet they are treated as if deepstriking

Aeri wrote:
yet they are treated as if deepstriking

Which is not the same as ARRIVING by deepstrike.

arriving by deepstrike is when you come in from DS reserves.

being placed using the rules for DS is not arriving.

The models have already arrived from reserves, or were never in reserves, as they are on the table embarked in a transport.

If the models had not arrived, and the transport blew up you would not be able to affect the passengers- which obviously you can because they are embarked and already arrived.

The locator beacon benefits units ARRIVING by deepstrike, which is not what is happening with skies of fury at all.

Just like necron deathmarks and veil of darkness, you place the models using the rules for DS but they are not ARRIVING from/by DS so you do not get mark a new enemy unit everytime you do so using the deathmarks special rule.

Okay. I'm sitting at work and don't have access to my codices ATM. Can someone quote the SM codex for locator beacon? It would also help to repost the rules for Skies of Fury. I want to see the exact wording.

lol Blaktoof.

If you do not allow the unit to use the beacon, you are not treating it as if it were deep striking

 jokerkd wrote:
lol Blaktoof.

If you do not allow the unit to use the beacon, you are not treating it as if it were deep striking

reading comprehension ftw. or rather lack of reading comprehension ftw for some people....

saying they are ARRIVING by deepstrike, which the locator beacon gives rules for, means your disembarking unit is arriving by deepstrike (which means its coming in from reserves) so to treat the unit using skies of fury as arriving by deepstrike, is to say disembarking is arriving from reserves from deepstrike. Which is not what is happening.

No it's exactly the same thing as far as the rules go.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
No it's exactly the same thing as far as the rules go.

No, it is not exactly the same thing as far as the rules go. One requires the unit to be ARRIVING by deepstrike. Arriving is passing a reserves roll from deepstrike reserves and being placed on the table, rolling scatter dice...etc..

the other the models are not ARRIVING because they are not in reserves, or DS reserves and are already on the table embarked in a transport. They are then PLACED as if by deepstrike, however skies of fury does not say they are ARRIVING by deepstrike, or count as ARRIVING by deepstrike.


in simple terms: A model disembarking is not the same as a model arriving from reserves. Without permission to count as ARRIVING, the model is not arriving.

Skies of Fury:
If the Stormraven Gunship has moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark, but they must do so as follows:
Nominate any point over which the Grey Knights Stormraven moved that turn and deploy the squad as if it were Deep Striking onto that point.
If the unit scatters, every disembarking model must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain test. If any of the models cannot be deployed, the entire unit is destroyed. Models that disembark using the Skies of Fury special rule cannot charge in the turn that they do so.

Locator Beacon:
Friendly units do not scatter when they Deep Strike, so long as the first model placed is within 6" of a model with a locator beacon.
The locator beacon must have been on the battlefield at the start of the turn in order for it to be used.

No need to arrive from reserves, all you need is to be deepstriking.
Thats btw. the reason gate of infinity also works with beacons!
(and "as if" means something like "as if" meaning you treat the unit as if it were deep striking. All rules applying to a deep striking unit apply also to units disembarking via skies of fury.)

Gate of Infinity:
Gate of Infinity is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Unless the target is Zooming or Swooping, remove the target and his unit from the board. It then immediately arrives anywhere on the board using the rules for Deep Strike.

Aeri wrote:

Skies of Fury:
If the Stormraven Gunship has moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark, but they must do so as follows:
Nominate any point over which the Grey Knights Stormraven moved that turn and deploy the squad as if it were Deep Striking onto that point.
If the unit scatters, every disembarking model must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain test. If any of the models cannot be deployed, the entire unit is destroyed. Models that disembark using the Skies of Fury special rule cannot charge in the turn that they do so.

Locator Beacon:
Friendly units do not scatter when they Deep Strike, so long as the first model placed is within 6" of a model with a locator beacon.
The locator beacon must have been on the battlefield at the start of the turn in order for it to be used.

No need to arrive from reserves, all you need is to be deepstriking.
Thats btw. the reason gate of infinity also works with beacons!
(and "as if" means something like "as if" meaning you treat the unit as if it were deep striking. All rules applying to a deep striking unit apply also to units disembarking via skies of fury.)

Gate of Infinity:
Gate of Infinity is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Unless the target is Zooming or Swooping, remove the target and his unit from the board. It then immediately arrives anywhere on the board using the rules for Deep Strike.

I only have the BA codex, in it locator beacon reads as follows:

Friendly units do not scatter when arriving from Deep Strike Reserve, so long as the first model is placed within 6" of a model with a locator beacon. For this to work, the bearer must have been on the battlefield at the start of the turn

good times GW, good times.

I find you to be overly strict in your interpretation. I understand your basis but don't concur with you.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I find you to be overly strict in your interpretation. I understand your basis but don't concur with you.

I understand the reasoning behind your interpretation and respect it.

Given the newfound possibility that the BA codex has different wording then possibly every other IA codex with locator beacons you may very well be correct in your interpretation, as I am applying "arrives" and "reserves" as requirements which appear to only exist in the BA codex and not the other IA codexes for locator beacon.

If you bother to read the second line of the Deep Strike rule, it tells you arring by Deep Strike is also known as Deep Strike Reserve.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If you bother to read the second line of the Deep Strike rule, it tells you arring by Deep Strike is also known as Deep Strike Reserve.

SJ

.............

+1

What about GoI? The unit is not in reserve.

GoI works as well, the rule even says "arrive by deep strike" (see above).
So even if you agreed with blaktoof about the interpretation of the wording, it would work with GoI.

But again, since the GK locator beacon does not require the deepstriking unit to come from reserves, it will work.

PS: locator beacons are a very special GW treat.
There are even beacons that do not require to be on the board at the start of the turn...

Yep tau beacons don't need to be

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If you bother to read the second line of the Deep Strike rule, it tells you arring by Deep Strike is also known as Deep Strike Reserve.

SJ

Now there is a gross misquote taken out of context.

Charistoph wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
If you bother to read the second line of the Deep Strike rule, it tells you arring by Deep Strike is also known as Deep Strike Reserve.

SJ

Now there is a gross misquote taken out of context.

DEEP STRIKE

I'll underline it:

Some units make their way to battle via tunnelling, teleportation, flying, or some other extraordinary means which allows them to appear in the thick of the fighting.
In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

SJ