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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I sure hope he didn't say anything like that. I've heard the whole racist, xenophobic, islamaphobic, misogynistic crap before. I'd just like a little more proof to the statements and the context.

He did, and the Dakka moderation crew rolled a natural 100 which means they gave him a cookie for it. The post is still here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/4200/614584.page#9271222

Never let that forget what he said.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
EDIT: nevermind, I misread something.

I'm not sure what you misread, but I'm glad you are now thinking about what you are posting online. More people need to do that. Huzzah to you, good sir!

Ooooo...how I love finding a backhanded compliment in the wild.

I'm glad you are now refraining from being a jerk, Gordon. Kudos!

 jasper76 wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
EDIT: nevermind, I misread something.

I'm not sure what you misread, but I'm glad you are now thinking about what you are posting online. More people need to do that. Huzzah to you, good sir!

Ooooo...how I love finding a backhanded compliment in the wild.

I'm glad you are now refraining from being a jerk, Gordon. Kudos!

You both have great faces for Radio!

Wow this went into prick territory in a hurry.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I sure hope he didn't say anything like that. I've heard the whole racist, xenophobic, islamaphobic, misogynistic crap before. I'd just like a little more proof to the statements and the context.

He did, and the Dakka moderation crew rolled a natural 100 which means they gave him a cookie for it. The post is still here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/4200/614584.page#9271222

Even worse he was allowed to accuse others of being bigots purposefully twisting words or just making up imaginary opinions we supposedly hold to attack...

On the elections. I'm glad Macron got through to the second round. It got a bit closer in the run up to round 1 in the polls than I would have suspected. If Le Pen wins I can't see anything good happening as she certainly won't be able to fix the economy with her approach, just drive it off a cliff. As a European and a EU supporter I'm glad that Macron seems to be the favored winner for round 2.

what the ...Marine Le Pen has just stood down from being party leader?

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Even worse he was allowed to accuse others of being bigots purposefully twisting words or just making up imaginary opinions we supposedly hold to attack...

Thankfully those kind of attacks are very easy to disprove by sending links to the actual words, in the actual context of the thread, right ?

Le Penn will lose. The support for the left will not vote for far right over center.

But what's all this "2% difference in polls" I'm hearing about the US election? There were many double digit polls for Clinton.

Those polls had Clinton at the 40-ish percent threshold above Trump's 30-ish percents. And Trump still ended up losing the popular vote.

Trump had:
third party votes to siphon off,
the right population distributions in the states,
"shy voters" because so many people didn't want to admit they would ultimately vote for Trump over Clinton.

Trump would have lost in the US if we had used the French system.

Soo..... what I'm saying is, the Trump election was more shocking than some on this board want to remember and Le Penn winning would be an entire order of magnitude more unbelievable.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/24/marine-le-pen-steps-down-as-head-frances-national-front-party.html

French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen announced Monday she is temporarily stepping down as head of her National Front party with less than two weeks ago before the country chooses its leader in a runoff vote.

The move appears to be a way for Le Pen to embrace a wide range of potential voters ahead of the vote pitting her against Emmanuel Macron, the independent centrist who came in first in Sunday's first round, The Associated Press reported.

"Tonight, I am no longer the president of the National Front. I am the presidential candidate," she said on French public television news.

Le Pen has said in the past that she is not a candidate of her party, and made that point when she rolled out her platform in February, saying the measures she was espousing were not her party's, but her own.

She also has tried to distance herself numerous times from a string of controversial comments by her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, who founded the party before being kicked out in 2015.

Le Pen has worked to bring in voters from the left and right for several years, cleaning up her party's racist, anti-Semitic image to do so.

This is really the death of the parties and the rise of the “independent” (not really independent) candidates ^^.

 Scrabb wrote:
Le Penn will lose. The support for the left will not vote for far right over center.

But what's all this "2% difference in polls" I'm hearing about the US election? There were many double digit polls for Clinton.

Those polls had Clinton at the 40-ish percent threshold above Trump's 30-ish percents. And Trump still ended up losing the popular vote.

Trump had:
third party votes to siphon off,
the right population distributions in the states,
"shy voters" because so many people didn't want to admit they would ultimately vote for Trump over Clinton.

Trump would have lost in the US if we had used the French system.

Soo..... what I'm saying is, the Trump election was more shocking than some on this board want to remember and Le Penn winning would be an entire order of magnitude more unbelievable.

No, dude, go back and actually look at the polling data in the last few days before the polls. You are wrong. You may have heard differently, but you may have also heard about the New Jerseains celebrating after 9/11. No polls had Clinton at double digits.

 kronk wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I sure hope he didn't say anything like that. I've heard the whole racist, xenophobic, islamaphobic, misogynistic crap before. I'd just like a little more proof to the statements and the context.

He did, and the Dakka moderation crew rolled a natural 100 which means they gave him a cookie for it. The post is still here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/4200/614584.page#9271222

Never let that forget what he said.

Jesus Christ Blackie wtf! I mean i used to know a really educated guy from the middle east that was in my calculus 2 class and he said he had to take the classes over in this country (saying our version was easier). It's common custom for certain educations to not be accepted in other countries and for you to re-learn but that's a bit much. I mean i merely am just uncomfortable with extremist religion and their's is the worst in this day and age. Of course i won't let people convince me an entire group is 100% evil and should be hated. If they turn out to not be extremists since i can't visit them then i would be the only extremist if i gave into that hate (i've had friends fall into that extremism like a previous feminist friend though thankfully hybrid is a good example for his group unlike the previous friend). That's why you have to make sure a group are extremists due to learning about them firsthand and in person before you commit to hatred at the very least.

Back on topic i think Sebster hit the nail on the head. When things don't work people want change. Would you believe Obama's campaign promise and slogan was for 'Change'? I guess that's a bigger indicator of who wins now. Maybe things just suck so bad in the usa politically that any political change would be accepted. I honestly things you guys would've had a good shot if Bernie Sanders was one of the 2 main candidates but you went with Hillary instead. Big mistake. Course these days it's usually 2 term democrat and 2 term republican for usa so i dunno.

----------

I tend to not know the politics in other countries but it couldn't be any worse than here for the french and british.

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

Dude, read the post you are posting in, and respond accordingly. It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts.

 Whirlwind wrote:
what the ...Marine Le Pen has just stood down from being party leader?

She's trying to shake the FN stench to try and convince more moderate voters. Desperate move it looks like.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Even worse he was allowed to accuse others of being bigots purposefully twisting words or just making up imaginary opinions we supposedly hold to attack...

Thankfully those kind of attacks are very easy to disprove by sending links to the actual words, in the actual context of the thread, right ?

Still feels weird that you would be allowed to do so as its seems its really skirting rule one.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

Dude, read the post you are posting in, and respond accordingly. It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts.

Its really strange people keep making this comparison after being corrected multiple times. France has two rounds and most of the people voting for Le Pen will have already done so in round 1 and she finished behind Macron in that one. Its like saying I'm sure Trump would win if we redo the vote!

Also the party label means nothing Le Pen is the FN and vice versa, this is just desperation.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

Dude, read the post you are posting in, and respond accordingly. It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts.

What the feth are you talking about? I commented on the probability, or not, of a LePen win. Did I misread "Impossible, she cannot win this time..."? Seemed pretty clean cut or are you just in the mood to troll? Also, your comment that "It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts." is a bit premature as the only fact that will matter hasn't manifested yet and will only do so when we see who wins the election in a couple weeks. So until then, opinions are what we've got.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Still feels weird that you would be allowed to do so as its seems its really skirting rule one.

I am sure you meant to write “Still feels weird that he would be allowed to do so”, because you definitely were talking about him, right?

Le Pen stepping down...eh?

So, she's not of the FN party anymore?

wut?

o.o

O.o

o.O

My head hurts.

Hybrid... is this gambit... a smart thing for her to do?

What can she say/do in two weeks to get new voters to vote for her?

 whembly wrote:
Le Pen stepping down...eh?

So, she's not of the FN party anymore?

wut?

o.o

O.o

o.O

My head hurts.

Hybrid... is this gambit... a smart thing for her to do?

What can she say/do in two weeks to get new voters to vote for her?

I may not have Hybrid's insight, but it seems like a brilliant tactic to me. Her faithful will follow her regardless of party affiliation and over the next two weeks, she can put some symbolic distance between herself and FN, which is obviously a possible stumbling block for some people to come over and vote for her.

The big issue is that if Le Pen loses here, she's done for higher office aspirations unless she has a fix in to get her old job back, which may be tricky.

That said, at this juncture, she might as well go all in, it may be the only chance she ever gets anyway.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wow this went into prick territory in a hurry.

This is what happens when the Germans let the French vote. Chaos!

 Vaktathi wrote:
The big issue is that if Le Pen loses here, she's done for higher office aspirations unless she has a fix in to get her old job back, which may be tricky.

That said, at this juncture, she might as well go all in, it may be the only chance she ever gets anyway.

I suspect this analysis is correct. If it can't hurt, it can only help, or perhaps have no effect.

But perhaps it could be viewed as hypocrisy.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

Dude, read the post you are posting in, and respond accordingly. It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts.

What the feth are you talking about? I commented on the probability, or not, of a LePen win. Did I misread "Impossible, she cannot win this time..."? Seemed pretty clean cut or are you just in the mood to troll? Also, your comment that "It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts." is a bit premature as the only fact that will matter hasn't manifested yet and will only do so when we see who wins the election in a couple weeks. So until then, opinions are what we've got.

It for say, it's not like with trump here, it's not 51% vs 49% we speaking about more than 10%, and all tvs, show etc..Speak about her like devil, so here in france the majority and a big majority don't like her, if she will a good president? Nobody know she will never do, in town where they are "major" they make good things but tvs say bad etc......Since many years lepen is like hitler etc......True sure not but people thing it's true. And french people don't thing, the evidence is Macron is holland number 2, all people wanted hollande out and they choose the same.

Just because he is young and cool...............Asked to french to be intelligent..........Forget.........So Macron will win with a minimum of 60%. I choose melanchon this year because he could beat macron, but lepen cannot.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 CATACHANTV wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I will not be surprised by a Le Pen win.

Impossible, she cannot win ths time, but in 5 years with marion, it will be another story, next president will be Macarony, no surprise, french like money they will be serve.............Poor country, so sad. So many people choosed him because he is young or handsome...........Crying!!!

I remember the same being said of Trump with only a couple weeks to go before the election. Don't underestimate the power of the dynamics behind Brexit, Trump, LePen, etc. Now that she has shed the party label, I'd take odds that she does win.

Dude, read the post you are posting in, and respond accordingly. It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts.

What the feth are you talking about? I commented on the probability, or not, of a LePen win. Did I misread "Impossible, she cannot win this time..."? Seemed pretty clean cut or are you just in the mood to troll? Also, your comment that "It seems we are truly in a world where only our own opinion matters, damn the facts." is a bit premature as the only fact that will matter hasn't manifested yet and will only do so when we see who wins the election in a couple weeks. So until then, opinions are what we've got.

Yup, and as was pointed out above, we should probably avoid the punditry, as it leads to false predictions. No need to swear or get upset about it. Just respond to the discussion. Want to bet on red 5 all in, fair enough, just make clear that you realize that is an outside bet.

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[…]Hybrid... is this gambit... a smart thing for her to do?

What can she say/do in two weeks to get new voters to vote for her?

I may not have Hybrid's insight, but it seems like a brilliant tactic to me. Her faithful will follow her regardless of party affiliation and over the next two weeks, she can put some symbolic distance between herself and FN, which is obviously a possible stumbling block for some people to come over and vote for her.

I tends to agree with this. Seems like a risky but potentially successful strategy.
Also it will monopolize all the attention on her, and about this specific issue rather than other that could hurt her more, so…
I think if I was Macron I would try to focus the debate as much as possible on her “affairs” (she did something similar to Fillon, where she gave tons of money from the European Union to her bodyguard to be her “parliamentary assistant” when she was in the UE parliament, likely actually paying him for his work as a bodyguard rather than for any service to the actual UE parliament).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Still feels weird that you would be allowed to do so as its seems its really skirting rule one.

I am sure you meant to write “Still feels weird that he would be allowed to do so”, because you definitely were talking about him, right?

Yeah apologies, I meant 'you' as in a person posting on this forum. Certainly not saying you did it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[…]Hybrid... is this gambit... a smart thing for her to do?

What can she say/do in two weeks to get new voters to vote for her?

I may not have Hybrid's insight, but it seems like a brilliant tactic to me. Her faithful will follow her regardless of party affiliation and over the next two weeks, she can put some symbolic distance between herself and FN, which is obviously a possible stumbling block for some people to come over and vote for her.

I tends to agree with this. Seems like a risky but potentially successful strategy.
Also it will monopolize all the attention on her, and about this specific issue rather than other that could hurt her more, so…
I think if I was Macron I would try to focus the debate as much as possible on her “affairs” (she did something similar to Fillon, where she gave tons of money from the European Union to her bodyguard to be her “parliamentary assistant” when she was in the UE parliament, likely actually paying him for his work as a bodyguard rather than for any service to the actual UE parliament).

I find it hard to believe she can really shake the FN image in two weeks, she will still have to depend on them for campaigning. The whole family is intrinsically linked to the FN and she has already said a number of absolutely horrible things.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Yeah apologies, I meant 'you' as in a person posting on this forum. Certainly not saying you did it.

Ahah my bad I get paranoid sometime so I wanted to make sure it was a “general you” ^^.

While Le Pen would be a disaster on so many levels, it could help get the UK off the Brexit hook enormously. France doesn't want to leave, and it is genuinely not in French interests as France was always at the core of the EU, something the UK never was and never could be.

 Orlanth wrote:
While Le Pen would be a disaster on so many levels, it could help get the UK off the Brexit hook enormously. France doesn't want to leave, and it is genuinely not in French interests as France was always at the core of the EU, something the UK never was and never could be.

Her election might be the wake up call they need. The EU needs reform if it going to survive. Thr fact she is second round should be noted and taken seriously. There's a big problem and its bot going away.

Seems they missed it with Brexit.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
While Le Pen would be a disaster on so many levels, it could help get the UK off the Brexit hook enormously. France doesn't want to leave, and it is genuinely not in French interests as France was always at the core of the EU, something the UK never was and never could be.

Her election might be the wake up call they need. The EU needs reform if it going to survive. Thr fact she is second round should be noted and taken seriously. There's a big problem and its bot going away.

Seems they missed it with Brexit.

Why? If she gets elected and that's a gigantic if her policies are going to drive France of a cliff financially speaking. Her policies are going to drag down the EU whether France leaves or stays in. Reform won't do anything to avoid disaster if she's in.

On the second round thing. Her father also managed to do it in 2002. Lets not pretend its somehow a big problem now while its just an attempt at getting some extra votes and mainly just focused on the internal economy. EU bashing is just a good way to get those kinds of voters on board. Whats Le Pen going to do, pay all those French farmers herself?