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 Desubot wrote:
I dunno the Stalker bolter at the least has ap-2 and a decent range. so its clear its meant to go after tougher armored units vs the normal -1 boltrifle. but then again its kinda overlaping the hell blasters which i find redundant.

It's clear that it's meant to go after targets with tougher armour, sure - but it doesn't really do much to them. Even against relatively low toughness units like Terminators, you'll only be doing about three quarters of a wound each turn in a 5 man squad... not much more than the other two weapons and actually less than the double tap bolt rifle. Now, that doesn't take into account the relative value of the extra 6 inch range, or the immobile nature of heavy weapons (to add a con), but we do know that stalkers kind of only work in a very specific role and they aren't even very good at that (same as heavy hellblasters). For their cost it'd be smarter to stick with either the rapid fire ones or use them in a more aggressive and mobile role with the assault ones. That's actually true for the Hellblasters as well, which makes me sad to think that they missed the mark for both these heavy options lol

Though, like I said, errata could fix both eventually.

Here is my 2k List. This is as about as optimal/most completive as primaris can get, when just using full primaris plus robby. Lots of success with it, but first few turns really hangs on robby's aura to kill as much as possible.

Battalion: 9 CP Total

2 Libby

3 10 man intercessor squads 2 launchers each. they deploy combat squaded so really 6 5 man units. (Makes it nearly impossible to fail moral)

6 Aggressors with dakka dakka

Ancient

6 Hell blasters

Dakka Repulsor

Robby G

Hellblasters/Ancient hide in Repulsor first turn. 2nd jump out and usually in double tap.

8 Units placed helps to get +1 to go first.

We usually play tac objs so 2 5 mans are on the flank near objectives, rest of the army drives up the center with rerolls.

Depending on what opponent brings, MoH casted on tank or agressors.

Robby G Makes it not really a full primarus army now does it

 Desubot wrote:
Robby G Makes it not really a full primarus army now does it

I flippin' hate how powerful he is lol

But he's also tall enough to fit in, which is really what matters. I think that list would have trouble with lots of heavy armour/monsters, no?

Lemondish wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Robby G Makes it not really a full primarus army now does it

I flippin' hate how powerful he is lol

But he's also tall enough to fit in, which is really what matters. I think that list would have trouble with lots of heavy armour/monsters, no?

Yeah probably

with only dakka repulsors and 6 hell blasters

heavy armor, vehicles and MCs are going to be trouble.

T7 will be no problem - T8 will be. This is why I always include 2x las cannons on my repulsors. Gotta have something to threaten that T8.

So far haven't had issues and it's gone up against lots of sisters mecha. Not a lot of t8 things. If there is Robby can go one shot it usually.

There is so many shots with rerolls and -1 ap that your taking large chunks out of tanks easily with the rerolls or flat out killing it

TBH I feel like Primaris really suffer from not having access to certain kinds of weapons. Like was said earlier, they seem pretty mediocre in anything but small games. I think instead of 'How can we make Primaris-only work' we should say 'What are the best things to add to a Primaris force?'

If you take the best from the Primaris additions and stick them in a normal Space Marine army, you'l get the Aggressors, Hellblasters, and maybe a dakka Redemptor Dread to help shore up what normal Space Marines have trouble with, which is dealing with certain kinds of horde.

Taking cheaper Librarians to save on points, taking more scouts to snipe out enemy characters and as troops, and then shore up your anti-tank with your preferred method. Sternguard, Devastators, las Predators, or whatever else. Adding Rhinos as transports for your smaller things and as LOS-blocking head-aches for your opponent helps your otherwise high-priority Hellblasters to stay around longer to do more damage.

All told, it may not look as nice as a Primaris-only force, but using the full flexibility of the Space Marine Codex is going to be where the Space Marines really shine.

drbored wrote:
TBH I feel like Primaris really suffer from not having access to certain kinds of weapons. Like was said earlier, they seem pretty mediocre in anything but small games. I think instead of 'How can we make Primaris-only work' we should say 'What are the best things to add to a Primaris force?'

If you take the best from the Primaris additions and stick them in a normal Space Marine army, you'l get the Aggressors, Hellblasters, and maybe a dakka Redemptor Dread to help shore up what normal Space Marines have trouble with, which is dealing with certain kinds of horde.

Taking cheaper Librarians to save on points, taking more scouts to snipe out enemy characters and as troops, and then shore up your anti-tank with your preferred method. Sternguard, Devastators, las Predators, or whatever else. Adding Rhinos as transports for your smaller things and as LOS-blocking head-aches for your opponent helps your otherwise high-priority Hellblasters to stay around longer to do more damage.

All told, it may not look as nice as a Primaris-only force, but using the full flexibility of the Space Marine Codex is going to be where the Space Marines really shine.

The only real thing they are missing is affordable anti tank.

You can kinda get away with it with laspulsors but that takes up a ton of space.

Hellblasters really needed a legit good anti tank option.

i think the heavy is sort of ok but not with the damage or lack of shots. otherwise it competes with the rapid fire one and the rapid fire one is just better in the majority of cases.

otherwise we have all the dakka options for horde, normal marines and heavy infantry for days.


oh and special weapon punch town. we dont really have that outside of the aggressors which is kinda boring.

I suspect we'll see expensive weapon/unit attachment boxes added to Primaris stuff. A $35 las-cannon or promethium incinerators (flamer) seems like how they'll really try to gouge players.

I'm running a made up Salamanders successor that's all Primaris, so not having many flamers or melta weapons is little annoying.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I suspect we'll see expensive weapon/unit attachment boxes added to Primaris stuff. A $35 las-cannon or promethium incinerators (flamer) seems like how they'll really try to gouge players.

I'm running a made up Salamanders successor that's all Primaris, so not having many flamers or melta weapons is little annoying.

I know that feeling. I'm building White Scars. Not as bad since I can still advance an extra two but dammit I would like bikes.

I'm sure in a year when they come back to the new stormcast eternals, er I mean primaris, we will see a lot more special units to fill in the roles needed.

What still feels odd is the Repulsor. Primaris are very role focused and this tank is kinda all over. Transport but expensive, but can be anti tank or anti horde. They need a solid anti armor tank option and a solid transport option. Then a better close combat squad as reivers are hot garbage.

What would really shake it up is making them get some kind of "unit" ad-ons. such as an elite slot that was kind of like deviators, but you could add them to your intercessor unit. Trying not to wishlist, but an idea.

str00dles1 wrote:
I'm sure in a year when they come back to the new stormcast eternals, er I mean primaris, we will see a lot more special units to fill in the roles needed.

What still feels odd is the Repulsor. Primaris are very role focused and this tank is kinda all over. Transport but expensive, but can be anti tank or anti horde. They need a solid anti armor tank option and a solid transport option. Then a better close combat squad as reivers are hot garbage.

What would really shake it up is making them get some kind of "unit" ad-ons. such as an elite slot that was kind of like deviators, but you could add them to your intercessor unit. Trying not to wishlist, but an idea.

You know, the best way to include a better close combat squad would be to adjust the Reiver's combat blades in an errata. Adding some AP should do the trick. Keep them focused on weaker enemies, though, and horde control. Then use the fact that the Inceptors have to pay per weapon to open up the option to start adding harder hitting melee options. All this without having to add a new unit.

But you're right, getting too close to wishlisting. What's clear is that Primaris are best at range and should play accordingly.

stratigo wrote:

Zond wrote:
Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?

for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.

yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes

BrianDavion wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Zond wrote:
Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?

for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.

yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes

Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...

 Ministry wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Zond wrote:
Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?

for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.

yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes

Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...

The conversation is about codex primaris vs dark angel, blood angel or space wolves. Ravenguard are one kind of vanilla marines, in this context.

 Ministry wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Zond wrote:
Are Primaris best run via vanilla rules or do Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels or Deathwatch bring anything to the table?

for pure primaris, vanilla is the way to go.

yeah none of the varient chapters gives Primaris Marines anything right now, whereas vanilla gains quite a bit, this is obviously subject to change as the other marines get their 'dexes

Huh? Ravenguard variant adds chapter tactics that allow for -1 to hit 12" on Primaris, STFS makes Aggressor Primaris incredible....I'd say that's a serious boost for no Chapter Tactics or Strategem Vanilla Primaris Marines...

You're right, but Raven Guard are vanilla marines because they're codex compliant. The variants she or he was referring to were Space Wolves, Dark and Blood Angels, or Deathwatch. Codex Compliant vanilla marine Chapters like Raven Guard have a whole bunch of stratagems, warlord traits, and chapter tactics that those variant Chapters do not have (yet). At this time, there's no value to choosing them for a pure Primaris force over a Codex Chapter. There is value if you want a mixed force, but that depends on the army.

Reivers are suffering from mission creep. CC units don't need long range options. Take away the carbine, and equip them with a second knife. Give the option to trade out the heavy bolt pistol for 2 normal bolt pistols. If you want the carbine, grapnel or the grav-chute you have to trade out the heavy bolt pistol, or a knife. Finally, given their lighter armor, they should have a +1 advance and/or charge.

THAT would make the Reivers scary.

Reivers will get really nice with a suitable chapter tactic that enhance their mobility wich is imao their main weakness. If BA get advance and charge, i will glady get some 5 man squad of reivers.

My main experience with my Primaris is from the starter set in small games from 500-750; at that range they seem fairly versatile and durable. The intercessors and hellblasters are the standouts, but the lack of transports outside of the float raider is extremely disappointing and I suspect as I get more points together I'll face more weapons that does more damage and can wipe 2W infantry out more efficiently. That said, I can't imagine not fielding Primaris; the miniatures look excellent (well hellblasters and intercessors at least. I'm lukewarm on inceptors and aggressors and dislike the Reiver minis.). I'm excited to see how the line grows. In the small games I've played I've yet to lose an entire unit and they almost seem overpowered, but in larger, more diverse games I know that won't be the case.

For 516 points and 2 CP, 2x 6 man bolter aggressor squads puts out serious dakka T1, wherever you want on the board. Albeit they are left in the open if you don't support them with other units.

Just picked up around 1500 points of primaris the other day, Captain, luitenant, ancient, 20 intercessors, 6 inceptors and 10 hellblasters. Getting a repulsor, redemptor and 6 aggressors (minimum).

Would a standard devestator squad (if captain, lieutenant, Hellblasters and ancient nearby) be a good investment if running all bolters with the other options?

What are people's overall thoughts on Redemptor Dreads? I am seriously considering buying 2 or 3 of them to join my fledgling Primaris army. I absolutely love the models but much the the repulsor I am seriously unsure of what to fit them with and what roles they might fill. The army, like so many Primaris only forces is lacking heavily in anti tank right now. So in general how do people feel about the Redemptor and what roles can they fill?

shade3413 wrote:
What are people's overall thoughts on Redemptor Dreads? I am seriously considering buying 2 or 3 of them to join my fledgling Primaris army. I absolutely love the models but much the the repulsor I am seriously unsure of what to fit them with and what roles they might fill. The army, like so many Primaris only forces is lacking heavily in anti tank right now. So in general how do people feel about the Redemptor and what roles can they fill?

The few times i've run mine I have thoroughly enjoyed it. While its not big on the anti-tank department outside of its plasma cannon you're going to have similar results with the Heavy onslaught cannons (and the reg cannon, never take the flamer since you will want to maximize your firepower for the investment in the platform that can only foot slog). It can put out A LOT of S5 AP-1 accurately and thats a gun statline that can effectively hurt anything. Additionally in my first foray into fighting Tau the damn thing took almost an entire armies worth of firepower and managed to survive (barely). Plus! its not slouch in close combat either and can smash up tanks reasonably well and disrupt deep strikers.

I plan on running him and maybe some of the other dreads (Venerable and Ironclad) in my primaris lists for some flavor and access to Lascannons. I also think theres nothing wrong with snagging some predators and whirlwinds in your primaris armies, since no one says they can't drive the old tanks =P

Is the Primaris Captain with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist going to be worth it over the other Captain types?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Is the Primaris Captain with Plasma Pistol and Power Fist going to be worth it over the other Captain types?

Well a stock Primaris captain (without wargear) is 87 points. If we add on the points of a plasma pistol and powerfist hes going to be 106 points. A primaris captain in gravis armor is 137. So for 31 more points you get a MC PS, 3 bolt pistol shots, and T5. Is that worth it? Ehhh T5 is a big deal, but the plasma pistol is going to be better I think and most of the time I find my gravis captain punching with the fist anyways. So yeah I could see a place for the powerfist primaris captain if you are looking to shave points, but not too many points. Conversely compared to a standard primaris captain with a stalker and power sword its only a 10 points difference to gain a gun thats probably better and a power fist which is better than a sword for sure.

I would be giving him the Fist of Vengeance so he would have an even better Power Fist. It takes away the weaknesses of the Power Fist (-1 to hit and variable damage), which really gives it a leg up on the Gravis Captain, who pays for his fist and his sword. It kinda sucks that the Fist of Vengeance can't replace the melee portion of a Boltstorm Gauntlet. Oh well.

The fist of vengeance is a seriously good weapon for a captain. Once you factor in the accuracy and better damage he hits almost twice as hard against multi-wound targets.

I'm going to paint my primaris as crimson fists. They are such a classic and quite fun to paint.

For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.

I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?

I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.

It's not 100% primaris but I keep thinking about plasma inceptors. They're extremely expensive but they do allow for a very nice plasma strike.

I'm thinking of using the strike from the shadows stratagem to place a full helblaster squad in cover overlooking something important.

Drop in a regular captain and lt. behind with jump packs to support them and allow for rapid firing charged plasma.

Drop in a full plasma inceptor squad for further plasma fire benefiting from the same cap'n and lt.

Keep a bolter inceptor squad ready in case some scouts or other deep strike deterrents need to be removed.

It's a huge investment but I rather like the flexibility and speed.

 argonak wrote:
For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.

I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?

I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.

I would recommend trading the Nurgle part for another primaris set. That gives you extra Intercessors and Hellblasters that you would want in a bigger list, plus extra characters you can convert to a non-gravis captain/Apothecary/Librarian or even a Techmarine if you need to and feel up to the job/have some useful bits.
If you switch around some arms and position the heads differently, you can make the Dark Imperium mono-pose marines different enough that they don't look like duplicates.

In terms of what you could do for a 1000pts army with the Dark Imperium primaris marines, I went for the Redemptor dreadnought. It looks awesome, is a very nice kit and has pretty nice stats. Only thing is that if you have any old dreadnoughts, they will look like midgets next to it. :-)

A 1000pts list could look like this:
HQ
Primaris Captain +Master-crafted power sword + Boltstorm gauntlet gauntlet
Lieutenant (non-primaris)
TROOPS
Intercessor squad A +Bolt rifle
Intercessor squad B +Bolt rifle
ELITES
Redemptor Dreadnought +H. gatling cannon +Gatling cannon +Icarus + Stormbolterx2
Primaris Ancient
HEAVY
Hellblaster squad +Plasma incinerator x5
FAST
Inceptor squad +Assault bolterx2 x3
--998pts

Mind you the Lt. has to stand-in as a non primaris Lieutenant, as there is not enough points to buy a primaris one. But that uses what's in the box plus a dreadnought.
Unfortunately you'll have to use a Patrol detachment, since there is only two Intercessor squads in the box. Should you get the opportunity to trade for an extra set, you can consider bringing three squads and use a Battalion detachment instead.