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BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

that would have required them modeling it, granted they could have simply given all marines a combat knife and it would have sufficed, IIRC marines are modeled with a knife on them. but keep in mind that would have been a bigger buff, as it is Marines are shoick troopers with these rules, they hit hardest on the first strike and don't do as well in a a prolonged brawl.

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

that would have required them modeling it, granted they could have simply given all marines a combat knife and it would have sufficed, IIRC marines are modeled with a knife on them. but keep in mind that would have been a bigger buff, as it is Marines are shoick troopers with these rules, they hit hardest on the first strike and don't do as well in a a prolonged brawl.

That would be true if it weren't for them also getting it whilest charged so no they are not really shocktroops needing to maintain momentum and secondly UM and White scar trait exist.

It's bollocks and the only real reason why it is a rule and not an free combat knife / chainsword is the fact that they can sell us more rule books.

BrianDavion wrote:
that would have required them modeling it

Alternatively, they could behave like grown adults, get over their CHS lawsuit and drop their bloody stupid 'no model, no rules' policy (not that they even adhere to it half the time).

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

Except then 1. you're changing the load-out of units that have existed since 1st edition, and some of us like the consisency; and 2. there's no distinction between a Tactical Squad and an Assault Squad. I much prefer this way, and it keeps chainswords feeling special.

 Nazrak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

Except then 1. you're changing the load-out of units that have existed since 1st edition, and some of us like the consisency; and 2. there's no distinction between a Tactical Squad and an Assault Squad. I much prefer this way, and it keeps chainswords feeling special.

Mhm, just like CSM since 7th have magically lost their chainswords? Whereas before they always had one on the by.
2. Assault marines are literally a entry not worth existing. (beyond the jumppack version)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the special rules I don't mind, a lot of factions have a ton of special rules, and GW has historicly avoided it with Marines (perhaps for fear of making the "newbie army" too complex) but the special rules WORK for Marines, it brings them more in line with the terrifyingly elite warriors they're depicted as. I know some people just think GW should just dropping the point cost of Marine units, but there comes a time when that just makes Marines play like "guard with a better AC"

Yeah, I'm pretty chuffed about the effect this'll have on my Classic Marines. The regular lads with Bolters might actually be frightening to enemy basic infantry again, and that's pretty much exactly what I want from my Marines.

agreed me too, Marines are going to be something people take seriously, not because of some OP FOTM unit that GW made a typo on and priced it at 10 points instead of 19, not because of some rules loophole, but because Marines are, just that good.

Still of the opinion that a basic free chainsword would've been sufficient.

Except then 1. you're changing the load-out of units that have existed since 1st edition, and some of us like the consisency; and 2. there's no distinction between a Tactical Squad and an Assault Squad. I much prefer this way, and it keeps chainswords feeling special.

Mhm, just like CSM since 7th have magically lost their chainswords? Whereas before they always had one on the by.
2. Assault marines are literally a entry not worth existing. (beyond the jumppack version)

Except GW came up with a rule that helps every unit in the codex, your suggestion would have either required some very odd concepts like terminators suddenly become able to switch to a chainsword and PF or TH SS and Chainswords vrs GW's fix which they actually get to benifit from without a lot of WTAF moments your design leads too.

Ikol wrote:
So it gets brought in volume.

and even then they were never meta-defining.

Emphasis mine.

Not sure if answered but the Shock Assault rule isn't key worded because it's a datasheet ability.

Ergo

[Named] Datasheet
Heretics of Death OR Angels of Death.

Angels of Death
Bolter Discipline, Shock Assault, And They Shall Know No Fear. (+Doctrines Access for non BA,SW,DA,DW,GK)

Heretics of Death
Bolter Discipline, Shock Assault, Death To The False Emperor.

They will FAQ all datasheets with the rules, so I guess no to the non space marine "Heretic Astartes" key worded units.
It be interesting to see if it applies to Dreadnoughts/Hellbrutes/Daemon Princes, possessed + greaters possessed.