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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yeah, shark in latin is actually Pistris.

Now, there's Alopias, which is the genus that thresher sharks belong to, and that might have been what allopex is derived from.

An Eidolon is basically just the greek word for a phantom.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/13 18:24:33


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




LoL, should have left him as alopias or alopiax, because alopex is an actual non sea animal. Well I guess people at GW hope that no one knows greek.

The thrall/slave warriors sound a bit like the half fish servent of Poseidon race. The females were called neraida, or something like that.

They really should have a triton though.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Karol wrote:
LoL, should have left him as alopias or alopiax, because alopex is an actual non sea animal. Well I guess people at GW hope that no one knows greek.

The thrall/slave warriors sound a bit like the half fish servent of Poseidon race. The females were called neraida, or something like that.

They really should have a triton though.


Curiously, nobody has a trident in the whole range as far as I know. A couple of the models typically the lead guys on the bigger creatures carry bidents, but the namarti use weaponry that looks like it's carved from bones.

At least, that's how I've got them painted up. I decided to ditch the white skinned gollum from lord of the rings look for blue skin, and gave them white tattoos based on maori tattoos I could find images of. Originally I wanted the weapons to look like scrimshaw, but there was no good way to get the scratchy art style to translate to paint, so I left them just bone.

This isn't the first time GW has just used a random greek word that didn't make sense for a unit. A bunch of the tyranid units are like that. A Haruspex is like a high priest/doctor, and Lictors are like, bodyguards for nobles and senators. Some make sense, like Carnifex, but most are just like...nothing. One of them was like "A nagging woman" - Hormagant I think.

Regardless, from a comprehension standpoint, there's not a whole lot that's confusing with my AOS stuff. Most of the nonsense names make some intuitive sense and all the rest make sense once you read the tiniest bit of the models' fluff.

Even the most basic space marine stuff isn't always particularly logical. Ask a rando to tell you which of the following is a transport, a battle tank, a hybrid tank/transport, a heavy transport, and a siege tank destroyer:

Rhino
Land Raider
Predator
Vindicator
Razorback

Or how about from this list?

Chimera
Taurox
Leman Russ
Malcador
Devil Dog

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/13 18:18:24


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

I mean, names from REALITY don't make sense either, in the same vein. Tell me which of the following are Tank Destroyers, Armored Transports, Self-Propelled Artillery, or Tanks simply from name alone:

USA:
Sherman
Priest
Slugger
Bradley

Germany:
Wasp
Bumblebee
Panther
Rhino

Israel:
Leopard
Chariot
Cruel

Russia:
Armata
Terminator
Armata (lol)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/13 18:33:17


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
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Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Termagant is a nagging woman.
Originally they were Termagaunts, it got changed to termagant for some reason.

Horma is derived from the greek hormon which means to assault.

There's an interesting article about tyranid etymologies on bell of lost souls

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/01/dissecting-the-bugs-meaning-of-tyranid-names.html

I would copy and paste, but the formatting is terrible I can't be bothered tidying it up.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/13 18:36:29


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Doesn't it litteraly mean the woman that bites with words?
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Karol wrote:
Doesn't it litteraly mean the woman that bites with words?


No, actually, the etymology is stranger than that.
Apparently it actually refers to a god that the Christians believed the Muslims worshipped, which was a violent, troublesome god, and as such it was used to describe someone (anyone, not just women) as ill-tempered.

It became a term for women during Shakespeare's time when people misinterpreted the traditional outfit of a termagant type character in a play (which was modeled after Arabic clothing, ie, a long gown and a turban) as being a woman's outfit, and remember back then only men were actors, even for women's roles. So the idea that a termagant was an ill-tempered woman caught on and it stuck.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Karol wrote:
Doesn't it litteraly mean the woman that bites with words?


No, actually, the etymology is stranger than that.
Apparently it actually refers to a god that the Christians believed the Muslims worshipped, which was a violent, troublesome god, and as such it was used to describe someone (anyone, not just women) as ill-tempered.

It became a term for women during Shakespeare's time when people misinterpreted the traditional outfit of a termagant type character in a play (which was modeled after Arabic clothing, ie, a long gown and a turban) as being a woman's outfit, and remember back then only men were actors, even for women's roles. So the idea that a termagant was an ill-tempered woman caught on and it stuck.


And later, in the 18th century, bones of dinosaurs were misinterpreted as the bones of muslims in the leadup to the 25th crusade. The advanced crossbow technology used against the crusaders in the first crusade was said to be satanic insect-firing laser guns, leading to the church propagandizing arabs as velociraptors holding insect-firing laser guns.

Which is exactly how GW designed the termagant!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/13 19:29:04


 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

the_scotsman wrote:

Curiously, nobody has a trident in the whole range as far as I know.

Aspect of the Sea has a trident in its build.

Worth mentioning as well that the Eidolon is less of the "Avatar of Khaine" situation and more of a tulpa/Gozer situation. Its form is because of the souls of deceased Idoneth are used to form it, and it takes the form of what they believed Mathlaan looked like. They took the stories that Teclis told them and ran with it.

A couple of the models typically the lead guys on the bigger creatures carry bidents, but the namarti use weaponry that looks like it's carved from bones.

Coral for the most part, with some metal, same as the howdahs on the Leviadons and the platforms that the Allopex have on their back for their riders.

It's weird that there are not too many tridents in the range, since they're supposed to be Aquaman style of 'symbol of royalty'.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Doesn't it litteraly mean the woman that bites with words?


No, actually, the etymology is stranger than that.
Apparently it actually refers to a god that the Christians believed the Muslims worshipped, which was a violent, troublesome god, and as such it was used to describe someone (anyone, not just women) as ill-tempered.

It became a term for women during Shakespeare's time when people misinterpreted the traditional outfit of a termagant type character in a play (which was modeled after Arabic clothing, ie, a long gown and a turban) as being a woman's outfit, and remember back then only men were actors, even for women's roles. So the idea that a termagant was an ill-tempered woman caught on and it stuck.

wait so it is all because of that one scary muslim actor Shakespear had, who was really good at playing Otello. Wow this is good to know, imagine one person impacting a language to a such a degree that it becomes linked to being angry and the baggy cloths he worse.

I know that a hormos is a little animal that bites everything. my grandmother used to call mouse, rats etc like that. So I thought that maybe it came from that. But your explanation, being linked to UK history makes more sense. But Hormo Gantos, can also be a nick name for a muscular dude too.
   
Made in us
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Annandale, VA

the_scotsman wrote:A Haruspex is like a high priest/doctor, and Lictors are like, bodyguards for nobles and senators.


A Haruspex was a priest who would read fortunes from entrails. As in, literally tear an animal apart and then read it like tea leaves. Seems kind of appropriate, if a bit of an artistic flourish, for what a Tyranid Haruspex does.

Lictors were bodyguards, yes, but their primary duty was to bear axes in public- symbolizing the power of the magistrate- and to clear space in crowds for the arrival of the magistrate. In other words, they went ahead to herald the arrival of their master.

I think Tyranid naming is generally rather clever. The variant names get a bit weird, (like using 'thrope' as a suffix- the original name is zo-anthrope, so chopping half the Greek suffix makes it nonsensical), and I'm curious as to who exactly thought a 'Hierodule' should be a big nasty monster, but by and large they're derived from real words that have semantically appropriate meaning. The use of Latin and Greek gives their naming a clinical, scientific feel, where you can picture the grunts using more colloquial names like 'hunter-slayer' and 'spook'.

They're not immediately intuitive, but they're evocative, memorable, have interesting real-world tie-ins if you do the research, and most importantly are short. If they were all NounNoun NounVerbers of 6+ syllables apiece, with mixtures of English and made-up words that maybe sound kinda like Latin, nobody would be able to remember them.

I think people get too hung up on the idea that names should intuitive convey meaning, when that's only one of the ways a good naming convention can be helpful.
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Sometimes GW phones it in though when it comes to Tyranid names, with "Venomthrope" and "Pyrovore" always sticking out to me. Toxicrene ain't much better.

But I like how a lot of Tyranid names have meanings.

   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




5th ed marked the start of the lack understanding in the naming.

Nid names were clever, but new authors took the syllables as discrete vocals and just started adding things to them, making non sensical portmanteaus.

"These things are all giraffe like, so they should be bikaffes, caraffes (lol actually a word), trainaffes and cupaffes. Geddit?"


I tend to think about names by imaging someone actually saying them in conversation. If it seems ridiculous then it probably is. Long made up names, repetitive flanderised names all sound ridiculous when a someone is trying to be serious.

Wolf guard wearing wolf claws riding thunderwolves is stupid.

It's one thing to have a couple of names and terms using repetitive terms, it's another entirely for everything to go that way

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 03:37:33


 
   
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Austria

Hellebore wrote:

Wolf guard wearing wolf claws riding thunderwolves is stupid.


not as stupid as Murderfang and Helfrost

I think 5th was the last edition the writers were sane

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Helfrost isn't that bad. It fits the Norse theme, considering how Hel is the Norse underworld, and unlike Hell its supposed to be very, very cold.

Murderfang is pretty terrible though. It feels puerile.

What I have
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in nl
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






your mind

Land Raider and Rhino, Predator, these all align with worldly expectations.
I mean, a Land Raider is a go everywhere tank of a vehicle, even by association with contemporary vehicles.
Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one, but otherwise without offence.
Predators are... well, predatory. Hunters. Big sharp guns.

These are all quite sensible.

Flying Investigitigitators? Trademarkable due its patent inanity, solely - this is the only thing reasonable about the new names.

   
Made in at
Privateer




Austria

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Helfrost isn't that bad. It fits the Norse theme, considering how Hel is the Norse underworld, and unlike Hell its supposed to be very, very cold.


I know were it comes from, but having Frost Weapons was kind of fine, but going a step further and start explaining everything with Helfrost technology (Helfrost Guns, Helfrost Stasis) is a little bit too much

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 08:28:50


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

I remember being disappointed as a kid when I discovered that Sea Lions are not, in fact, underwater lions.
Still cute though.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Where's all the people complaining that Skaven are called Skaven, and not Ratmen?

As with most things, it seems to be a case of nostalgia. Give it some years/decades, and the natural growth of new players into the hobby, and Intercessors and Seraphon and Drukhari will all be normal, just like how Sternguard and Vindicators and Skaven and Astartes and Callidus/Eversor/Vindicare/Culexus all were.


So you'd want to see an exhaustive list of all the names everyone might find silly and or overly dumb ? Would that more meet with approval ? Seems like yet another post of someone trying to downplay valid dislikes by brushing it off with an all too often thrown out phrase to belittle a comment or opinion out of hand.

" You don't like GW rules ? That's toxic "

" You dislike this dumb name ? That's nostalgia "

" You don't want to put 40 dollars for one human sized model ? You're cheap "

What does it matter why someone doesn't like it ? Does it make someone feel good to so out of hand disregard their opinion and chuckle to themselves how superior their lack of nostalgia is on the topic ? Sometimes the old ways were better ways, I know its shocking to believe but not every new age marvel is actually a good thing and some come with bad side effects. That said, this isn't one of those things. It's an opinion based thing, so we can not see eye to eye but please let us stop at assuming that someone doesn't like it because " You have wrong think nostalgia eyes " I don't need nostalgia to tell me a sloppity bilepiper sounds moronic.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Skaven apparently is a portmanteau between Scabies and Craven, referring to the fact that they are both diseased and cowards.

That's one theory I read, anyway. Makes sense though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cronch wrote:
Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride


In theory, you can ride a rhino, like you can with an elephant. Its just its not very practical because its a large, heavy animal and trying to straddle it would be very painful. You'll need like a howdah or a special chair or something. Its really not worth the effort.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 09:15:08


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Cronch wrote:
Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride


But stegadons were actual animals .
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Karol wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride


But stegadons were actual animals .


No, Stegasaurii were actual animals.


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Karol wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride


But stegadons were actual animals .


No, Stegasaurii were actual animals.



The Stegodon was an animal, too. Was an elephant though, not a dinosaur.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/14 10:04:55


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Karol wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Leviadon is just GW's fetish for the word tooth. Nothing new, stegadon was first named in the 90s, and now we also have the bastiladon. I swear, if they could, GW would call all reptiles X+don. Lizarddon, coldonedon, the chapter of salamanderdons...

As for the allopex, i'm fairly sure they just looked up tresher sharks, which are Alopiidae, literally sea foxes. Which is also proof that IRL names can be dumb as heck too.

Rhinos are hard charging tough and a lot of critters might ride on top of one

Ah yes, rhinos, famous for being easy to ride


But stegadons were actual animals .


No, Stegasaurii were actual animals.



The Stegodon was an animal, too. Was an elephant though, not a dinosaur.


True, but they were stegodons, not stegadons

What I have
~4100
~1660
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

AngryAngel80 wrote:So you'd want to see an exhaustive list of all the names everyone might find silly and or overly dumb ? Would that more meet with approval ? Seems like yet another post of someone trying to downplay valid dislikes by brushing it off with an all too often thrown out phrase to belittle a comment or opinion out of hand.
My comment was specifically about the complaints about Lizardmen being called Seraphon. Lizardmen is perfectly descriptive, yes, but so is Ratmen.

Why the double standard?

" You don't like GW rules ? That's toxic "
No-one said that.

" You dislike this dumb name ? That's nostalgia "
Dumb isn't a fact. It's an opinion, and as I *actually* said, I used the term "most", in that I think "most" complaints wouldn't be being made if GW had always called it that. Hence why people don't complain about Skaven not being Ratmen.

" You don't want to put 40 dollars for one human sized model ? You're cheap "
Again, add that to the list of things nobody said.

What does it matter why someone doesn't like it ?
It doesn't matter. But OP uses an imperative - "NEEDS to stop" - why? Is that not worth a discussion, perhaps mentioning how the naming convention isn't really all that bad in context?
Sometimes the old ways were better ways
Not denying that, but sometimes, when the "old ways" were just the same as the current ones, and there's no complaining, doesn't that come across a little unfair? Specifically talking about Lizardmen/Seraphon vs Ratmen/Skaven here. Why is one bad, but the other just accepted?
That said, this isn't one of those things. It's an opinion based thing, so we can not see eye to eye but please let us stop at assuming that someone doesn't like it because " You have wrong think nostalgia eyes "
It is opinion, I agree, and if that opinion is based off of nostalgia, that's not a bad thing at all.
Don't mistake my "you prefer this because of nostalgia" as a criticism - it's perfectly valid, because that's your opinion.

There's no "wrongthink" here.
I don't need nostalgia to tell me a sloppity bilepiper sounds moronic.
I'm going to be honest, "Sloppity Bilepiper" isn't a good name. "Bilepiper" is fine though, IMO. That's why I'd only refer to it as the Bilepiper, same way I'd only refer to something like the Swordmasters of Hoeth as "Swordmasters", or an XV88 Broadside Battlesuit as a "Broadside".

I'm fully on board that a lot of the Adjective-Noun units sound a bit off, but it's not hard to refer to them by their noun, and it sound a lot better. So, a Death Guard army might consist of Bilepipers, Blightbringers, Plaguecasters, Bloat-Drones, and Blightlords, which is much more palatable. It's not to say GW are perfect, but their naming isn't irredeemably bad.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
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Made in fr
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on the forum. Obviously

Idk, that's a lot of b sounds in one list. Its like a tongue twister. And then you have primaris, where nearly everything beings with I and you have a couple of words that sound almost the same. Its not as bad as spamming wolf or blood, but its still pretty bad.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Idk, that's a lot of b sounds in one list. Its like a tongue twister. And then you have primaris, where nearly everything beings with I and you have a couple of words that sound almost the same. Its not as bad as spamming wolf or blood, but its still pretty bad.


I'd say honestly it's worse. I still cannot tell the difference between the basic unit names of some of the primaris stuff. It's just asinine.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





re the Tyranid names, given the names are simply the IoMs reporting names for types of organisms some having names that make sense, and others beig idiotic and dervitive actually makes sense.

you've got some Tyranids specificly idnetified by AdMech biologists named via a naming pattern.

then you have new tyranid bioforms named by the first guard officer to describe them. well it turns out that guard officer wasn't very original

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
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UK

 Gnarlly wrote:
Curious: why the change back to Space Marines with their codex 2.0 from Adeptus Astartes in their 1.0 codex?

I hadn't even noticed that

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