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This weekend I re-read an old White Dwarf from around 2003. In an article on how to fight tanks, they advocated distributing your anti-tank firepower among all your units, and only in a 2000+pt game should you have a single unit equipped with dedicated anti-tank weapons.
This was either 3rd or 4th ed, so yeah, no split fire.
Maybe if GW brought in tournament players to write tactics articles we'd get something useful, but they'd never print advice that amounted to 'never take X because it's bad, always take Y because it's underpriced, here's a RAW trick you can do that the designers never thought of'.
Migth be more useful, but would read very poorly.
Have you seen a tournament / math hammer player unleashed?
They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis and form ugly and counterintuitive armies designed to play for points / play to win.
My beef is with the constant rule changes; they are clearly unable to keep up themselves (many units fall behind quite obviously). They should have hammered down better rules and simply kept introducing new modes of play + new units to keep the game fresh.
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
I do not disagree but it would probably be pretty bad as a marketing tool; that's all I was pointing out.
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
I do not disagree but it would probably be pretty bad as a marketing tool; that's all I was pointing out.
Oh, definitely, I just think that if GW spent more time writing rules and less time marketing them the rules might be less bad and the marketing might be less dishonest.
catbarf wrote: Maybe if GW brought in tournament players to write tactics articles we'd get something useful, but they'd never print advice that amounted to 'never take X because it's bad, always take Y because it's underpriced, here's a RAW trick you can do that the designers never thought of'.
I don't even think they require that. Anyone with a basic grasp of how the rules worked could'a figured out that a Devastator Squad in 3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th edition equipped with a Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, Multi-Melta and Plasma Cannon was fething stupid idea.
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
I do not disagree but it would probably be pretty bad as a marketing tool; that's all I was pointing out.
Oh, definitely, I just think that if GW spent more time writing rules and less time marketing them the rules might be less bad and the marketing might be less dishonest.
I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/01 23:29:38
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/02 00:58:01
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
You mean why cant GW move at least their Air range to dropper bottles?
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
Whenever people get creative with the bitching they get called out for being over the top and snarky. Some people just can't appreciate upbeat and artistic gak talk. I wouldn't blame the complainer, I'd blame the critics of good rage comedy.
Regarding the Banshees charging Intercessors, the math gets worse if you give them a Power Sword, which with Shock Assault isn't the worst investment for four points.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
You mean why cant GW move at least their Air range to dropper bottles?
No, definitely the old hex pots. I have paint that's still good in those 20 years later.
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
Are you suggesting that GW does fewer than 20 things wrong that need to be pointed out?
Sim-Life wrote: ...I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
While we're wishlisting here I'd like people to stop telling me "WE KNOW GW'S CRAP STOP GRUMBLING THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY ANYTHING COULD EVER BE ANY BETTER" while I'm trying to have a good kvetch about it.
I feel like whenever anyone makes a post bitching about GW they should think "there's already 20 users bitching about GW in this thread, what makes MY bitching different?". At least then we might get some new, interesting complaints instead of the same old ones we've been hearing since basically the invention of the internet.
Like here's one:
Why do GW keep changing the design of their paint pots? Now my paints are all different looking. Why can't they go back to hex pots?
You mean why cant GW move at least their Air range to dropper bottles?
No, definitely the old hex pots. I have paint that's still good in those 20 years later.
Those pots are good...because GW didn't make them.
catbarf wrote: Maybe if GW brought in tournament players to write tactics articles we'd get something useful, but they'd never print advice that amounted to 'never take X because it's bad, always take Y because it's underpriced, here's a RAW trick you can do that the designers never thought of'.
I don't even think they require that. Anyone with a basic grasp of how the rules worked could'a figured out that a Devastator Squad in 3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th edition equipped with a Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, Multi-Melta and Plasma Cannon was fething stupid idea.
But GW couldn't.
I agree, putting the MM in there isn't my idea of optimal (I like to put meltas all together & deepstrike them in pods). That's why my Devs often run with Lascannon x2, Plasma Cannon x1, Heavy Bolter x1.
2.5 weapons effective against medium + armor, everything effective vs troops & light armor. And each of my Tac squads receives an AT heavy weapon & an AP special or vise-versa. As I expect each of my squads to be able to fend for themselves when (not if) needed, this mix has worked out well for me over the editions (2e - present).
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
I do not disagree but it would probably be pretty bad as a marketing tool; that's all I was pointing out.
Oh, definitely, I just think that if GW spent more time writing rules and less time marketing them the rules might be less bad and the marketing might be less dishonest.
I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
Have you heard of Freeman's Value Creation Stakeholder Management theory?
You mean why cant GW move at least their Air range to dropper bottles?
Don't the GW bottles waste more paint, and dry out faster? seems like a good thing for people to have to buy pain more often. At least from GWs point of view.
I think all companies could do it. They could do a phone, TV or freezer that works for 20 years, but then what would they be selling people. But if a freezer falls apart every 5 years, and the old parts for it and the work to fix it cost more, then a new freezer people will forced to buy new ones.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Grey40k wrote: ...They'd trash a lot of units in the analysis...
Maybe an incentive for GW to stop making trash rules if they had to actually worry about whether a tournament player would read them and say "This is garbage, never buy it".
I do not disagree but it would probably be pretty bad as a marketing tool; that's all I was pointing out.
Oh, definitely, I just think that if GW spent more time writing rules and less time marketing them the rules might be less bad and the marketing might be less dishonest.
I'd also like it if publicly traded international businesses did what was best for their customers instead of trying to make money for their shareholders. I'd also like several million euros, all my models to be painted and for none of my pets to ever die.
Have you heard of Freeman's Value Creation Stakeholder Management theory?
sure but the fact doesn't change that many companies clearly don't ascribe to that. yet again GW is a busniess. they'll do what makes them money.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
sure but the fact doesn't change that many companies clearly don't ascribe to that. yet again GW is a busniess. they'll do what makes them money.
I hope they have more concerns than just making money. In any case, banshees do not seem to be making them much money as it is.
even if they'd been 15-20 bucks a pack cheaper I suspect that mighta been the case, I doubt there's much demand among eldar players for howling banshees.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
sure but the fact doesn't change that many companies clearly don't ascribe to that. yet again GW is a busniess. they'll do what makes them money.
I hope they have more concerns than just making money. In any case, banshees do not seem to be making them much money as it is.
even if they'd been 15-20 bucks a pack cheaper I suspect that mighta been the case, I doubt there's much demand among eldar players for howling banshees.
When was the last time GW released a kit that was both abject crap from a rules standpoint but also a terrible points to money value? I think if you fixed one of those things at least, you'd see uptake. GW just made the baffling decision to make a kit whose only selling point is the sculpt quality.
sure but the fact doesn't change that many companies clearly don't ascribe to that. yet again GW is a busniess. they'll do what makes them money.
I hope they have more concerns than just making money. In any case, banshees do not seem to be making them much money as it is.
even if they'd been 15-20 bucks a pack cheaper I suspect that mighta been the case, I doubt there's much demand among eldar players for howling banshees.
Obviously I'm just one person but I went from planning on getting at least 2 boxes to getting 0 boxes with the price.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Stormonu wrote: Well, at least no one can accuse GW now of making their models pay to win.
Of course, I prefer the “pay to lose” model. I pay my opponent to lose. It’s usually cheaper - just a couple pizza slices and a coke.
nononooooooonononononononononono, you misunderstand. There is an inbuilt, ready made rationalization for WHY the evil GW sales driven model power theory can't possibly be wrong.
Spoiler:
-New model comes out that nobody asks for, is OP (ex: Knight Castellan, Wyvern, Sloptity Whopbopper, Disco Lord)
Explanation: Well of COURSE gw is pushing the rules for the new gak to drive sales, DUUUUUUUUH, you dummy dum dum
-New model that nobody asks for, is UP (ex: Knight Princeps, Admech Sicarians, Repulsor Executioner, Lord of Executions)
Explanation: HAha, looks like stupid dumb GW fethed up again, they tried to make their new unit OP but they're just so DUMB they couldn't even do it right! hahaahahahaah!
-New model that is highly anticipated, is OP (ex: Saint Celestine, Abbadon, Magnus, new sisters stuff)
Explanation: Psh, of COURSE gw is catering to the ravening fanboys giving them such utterly broken rules for their new toy to get them to buy the new model. Preeeeeeedictable.
-New model that is highly anticipated, is UP (New aspect warriors, new Shadowsun, every primaris marine for the first 2 years they existed, every new ork buggy, new CSM)
Explanation: Obviously gw knew that those models would sell regardless so they made their rules purposefully crap so they don't interfere with the sales of their real hot stuff that they have to make OP to push sales!
-Old model that's been out forever, is OP (Imperial Guard squads, Basilisks, Eldar Flyers, Dark Reapers)
Explanation: Oh hoh ho, GW, up to your rascally old tricks again! Trying to clear out all that old inventory I see with your purposefully making them OP to drive sales! Well we see through you and your wily schemes.
-Old model that's been out forever, is UP (oldmarines, necrons, grey knights)
Explanation: Obviously they're purposefully giving these units gak rules in order to 4-d chess mindgame us into HAVING to pick up shiny new kits that they push out. The fiends!
There is literally no combination on a matrix of newness and OPness that the "Grand GW Rules Fixing Conspiracy" does not have a baked-in explanation for. There is NO WAY that anything could accidentally end up with bad rules or good rules because GW doesn't know how to write rules well. EVERYTHING is on purpose, EXPLICITLY targeting you and your model collection personally.
THATS RIGHT, CRAIG.
WE KNOW ABOUT YOU CRAIG!
Automatically Appended Next Post: (I will never not include a first name because there is a nonzero chance that Stormonu's name is Craig, and one time I did that and absolutely NAILED that someone's IRL name was Steve and it super freaked them out.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/02 19:38:36
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
sure but the fact doesn't change that many companies clearly don't ascribe to that. yet again GW is a busniess. they'll do what makes them money.
I hope they have more concerns than just making money. In any case, banshees do not seem to be making them much money as it is.
even if they'd been 15-20 bucks a pack cheaper I suspect that mighta been the case, I doubt there's much demand among eldar players for howling banshees.
Obviously I'm just one person but I went from planning on getting at least 2 boxes to getting 0 boxes with the price.
It’s just to much for me to spend on models I don’t need, wouldn’t use and just want to paint.
Not in this market where I have hundreds of minis on my want list.
the_scotsman wrote: (I will never not include a first name because there is a nonzero chance that Stormonu's name is Craig, and one time I did that and absolutely NAILED that someone's IRL name was Steve and it super freaked them out.)
Well, you almost nailed it. I’m Stephen. Steve is my uncle, a cousin, an in-law and one of my coworkers. Don’t know any Craig’s.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/02 19:50:55
the_scotsman wrote: nononooooooonononononononononono, you misunderstand. There is an inbuilt, ready made rationalization for WHY the evil GW sales driven model power theory can't possibly be wrong.
Spoiler:
-New model comes out that nobody asks for, is OP (ex: Knight Castellan, Wyvern, Sloptity Whopbopper, Disco Lord)
Explanation: Well of COURSE gw is pushing the rules for the new gak to drive sales, DUUUUUUUUH, you dummy dum dum
-New model that nobody asks for, is UP (ex: Knight Princeps, Admech Sicarians, Repulsor Executioner, Lord of Executions)
Explanation: HAha, looks like stupid dumb GW fethed up again, they tried to make their new unit OP but they're just so DUMB they couldn't even do it right! hahaahahahaah!
-New model that is highly anticipated, is OP (ex: Saint Celestine, Abbadon, Magnus, new sisters stuff)
Explanation: Psh, of COURSE gw is catering to the ravening fanboys giving them such utterly broken rules for their new toy to get them to buy the new model. Preeeeeeedictable.
-New model that is highly anticipated, is UP (New aspect warriors, new Shadowsun, every primaris marine for the first 2 years they existed, every new ork buggy, new CSM)
Explanation: Obviously gw knew that those models would sell regardless so they made their rules purposefully crap so they don't interfere with the sales of their real hot stuff that they have to make OP to push sales!
-Old model that's been out forever, is OP (Imperial Guard squads, Basilisks, Eldar Flyers, Dark Reapers)
Explanation: Oh hoh ho, GW, up to your rascally old tricks again! Trying to clear out all that old inventory I see with your purposefully making them OP to drive sales! Well we see through you and your wily schemes.
-Old model that's been out forever, is UP (oldmarines, necrons, grey knights)
Explanation: Obviously they're purposefully giving these units gak rules in order to 4-d chess mindgame us into HAVING to pick up shiny new kits that they push out. The fiends!
There is literally no combination on a matrix of newness and OPness that the "Grand GW Rules Fixing Conspiracy" does not have a baked-in explanation for. There is NO WAY that anything could accidentally end up with bad rules or good rules because GW doesn't know how to write rules well. EVERYTHING is on purpose, EXPLICITLY targeting you and your model collection personally.
So unbelievably accurate: I love it.
Surely we've seen enough examples to know that GW either don't, or are unable to do properly, intentionally fudge the strength of units to boost their sales?
Eldar- 4436 pts
