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You're absolutely right that it can be a problem without FW, but it doesn't change that if you have one or two people consistently doing it and you're not able to just outright ban them from your shop?

Changing it to a "No FW" rule can be a way to ditch them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're absolutely right that it can be a problem without FW, but it doesn't change that if you have one or two people consistently doing it and you're not able to just outright ban them from your shop?

Changing it to a "No FW" rule can be a way to ditch them.

Not really as they can still go seal clubbing with another list, your problem has not been solved and now a number of other players will never even consider playing in such an environment.

Also this can't ban people must be something specific to America as I've seen UK GW stores ban people quite easily and quickly and have GW corporate actually stand by the decision.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're absolutely right that it can be a problem without FW, but it doesn't change that if you have one or two people consistently doing it and you're not able to just outright ban them from your shop?

Changing it to a "No FW" rule can be a way to ditch them.

You don't use a frag nade to swat a fly or two no?
Why not boycott them.

Their store, their rules? Unless they are discriminating on prohibited grounds (race, religion etc) I don't see the issue. Go play somewhere else?

I play in two cities (live in one on weekends, work in another during the week.) I see plenty of FW models on the tabletop, but none are actually made in FW. Its mostly Leviathan and Deredo recasts. I think that GW has to be aware of the level of recasting and that somebody is eating their lunch.

Hopefully they bring those two models into the main fold and do them in plastic with an entry in the relevant Codexes. They would make good money, I imagine, from plastic kits of those two models and reduce the demand for the recasters. They would also become more accessible to the masses and the datasheets would be in the Codex and not somebody's phone.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Their store, their rules? Unless they are discriminating on prohibited grounds (race, religion etc) I don't see the issue. Go play somewhere else?

I play in two cities (live in one on weekends, work in another during the week.) I see plenty of FW models on the tabletop, but none are actually made in FW. Its mostly Leviathan and Deredo recasts. I think that GW has to be aware of the level of recasting and that somebody is eating their lunch.

Hopefully they bring those two models into the main fold and do them in plastic with an entry in the relevant Codexes. They would make good money, I imagine, from plastic kits of those two models and reduce the demand for the recasters. They would also become more accessible to the masses and the datasheets would be in the Codex and not somebody's phone.

But... but... That'd make more bloat! (said with as much sarcasm as typing will allow)

On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

It literally does. People view certain models as "must haves", but then think they are obliged to get them for cheap.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

It literally does. People view certain models as "must haves", but then think they are obliged to get them for cheap.

Not really, you don't need leviathans or contemptors, often beeing more of a sidegrade, unless you are IH; but i don't blame a unit that was pretty much meta irrelevant until the IH supplement showed up.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

It literally does. People view certain models as "must haves", but then think they are obliged to get them for cheap.

I don't know anyone in my area who views them as a must-have. I know people who would like to have them, but again, FW has priced themselves out of their own market.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

It literally does. People view certain models as "must haves", but then think they are obliged to get them for cheap.

I don't know anyone in my area who views them as a must-have. I know people who would like to have them, but again, FW has priced themselves out of their own market.

I should clarify a bit more, but the reason some people view those models as must-haves are because they netlist and/or chase the meta despite having literally nothing to do with playing tournaments.

And frankly, those people? They wouldn't be buying FW anyways. They whine about everything GW pricewise and how they need every book, yadda yadda yadda.

Tbf the books are a valid concern imo.
Not least because it feels Like the ruleswriters themselves don't See the forrest anymore for the trees in the Way.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
On the recast point:

FW are pricing themselves out of the model market. This has nothing to do with their rules.

It literally does. People view certain models as "must haves", but then think they are obliged to get them for cheap.

Not really, you don't need leviathans or contemptors, often beeing more of a sidegrade, unless you are IH; but i don't blame a unit that was pretty much meta irrelevant until the IH supplement showed up.

Oh no, you are quite wrong about what I NEED & the why.

When I returned to the game in mid/late '18 one of the first things I did was scroll through FW to see what was new. When I got to the Leviathan? I stopped scrolling & ordered it + all arm options without ever wondering about the rules. Though i did add all the FW Index books to that order.
Why? Because I simply love dreadnoughts & that's a damned cool model.
Leviathan = need.

Deredos & Telemons (more needs) soon followed as the hobby budget permitted.

Iron Hands? Pfft. 99% of those players are just Flavor of the Month types (they don't even have an army painted up as IH). They'll be gone & ditch all their re-cast Leviathans when the rules don't favor them.
Me? My Leviathan is painted up as DA (3rd Co.) It'll be used as long as there's rules - great/OK/or bad - for it.