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 techsoldaten wrote:
As other posters have mentioned, there are GW models you can get through mail order only.

The last time I bought something at a GW store, it was FW and the manager helped me order it on an in-store computer. I didn't have to pay for shipping.

So is it technically true you can't order FW from GW stores? I don't think so.

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

The bias there is about as blatant as it can get.

So, janky rules?
Last “big” issue was leviathan dreads.
The funny part? It was regular 40k rules that broke them (iron hands) and not FW rules.

If anything, FW rules these days are on the weak side of things.
Almost every broken thing in 40k has been GW products lately.

The old myth of broken FW rules ended a long time ago and sadly, some people are too salty to move on with life.





In regards to the store manager, it’s down to him sadly.
Most stores I’ve been to don’t care if it’s GW or FW, but some do.
FW sales don’t have any bearing on the store, so they try not to promote it (despite FW being part of GW) as it’s of no benefit to them.

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

Not entirely accurate. The manager at my store explained that, while buying something off the shelf is better for him, he gets a special kind of credit for everything that gets delivered to the store. So it actually does help.

Absolutely agree there. Any sale that is designated for store pickup, GW or FW, should have a portion allocated towards that store. Because there's a pretty fair chance that a decent number of those sales wouldnt have happened without the store being there.


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Tycho wrote:

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

Not entirely accurate. The manager at my store explained that, while buying something off the shelf is better for him, he gets a special kind of credit for everything that gets delivered to the store. So it actually does help.

If that is true, and I hope it is, it makes the OP's store manager's behaviour all the more baffling.


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Jackal90 wrote:


The old myth of broken FW rules ended a long time ago and sadly, some people are too salty to move on with life.

In defense of this position, a tiny bit, there are a handful of FW units whose rules are literally broken. I dont mean overpowered, I mean they dont work at all as written.

One example is the Renegades and Heretics units who's LD is not determined until they make a morale test. Except some things other than morale tests require a LD score.

GW stuff is not immune to this, it's just more likely to eventually get FAQd.

Of course, we've been told new FW indexes are on the way! So fingers crossed.

Tycho wrote:

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

Not entirely accurate. The manager at my store explained that, while buying something off the shelf is better for him, he gets a special kind of credit for everything that gets delivered to the store. So it actually does help.

Didn't know that. Is it possible that some store managers are also unaware? Or the policy isn't promoted well by the company to them?

As to fw being OP, no, it isn't. As others have stated, any recent problems with fw units have been caused by gw rules, not fw. New rules are on the way, as Stux has pointed out, so maybe the few offending units will be addressed.

Thanks for the responses everyone, it gives me some good food for thought and will probably bring it up soon in some form. I may also start to split my time like Lammia suggested between the store and a gaming club I know exists locally but haven't tried out yet. (Funnily enough, said club was suggested by a manager at a different GW store.)

Tycho wrote:
OP - I may have missed this in the thread, but have you talked to the actual manager about the policy? What you're saying seems to be coming from another customer.

This was from a staff member who wasn't the manager, but I gather the manager himself shares similar views.

The "You can't use it because you can't buy it in stores" is such a false analogy...

So, hypothetical manager of this GW- can I not use my conversions? How about OOP minis? Both fall under the same logic they are using to ban FW.

Also-"FW rules are janky". Yeah, no. Someone needs to tell this store it's not 2002 any more...

Didn't know that. Is it possible that some store managers are also unaware? Or the policy isn't promoted well by the company to them?

I'm sure that's possible. I think the other potential thing happening is that (as my store manager explained it), it's not quite the same as what they get for selling an item right off the shelf (which is why I said it's not entirely accurate vs saying it was wrong). We all know the sales quotas required of the managers are, at times, borderline criminal, so if someone is at a store that's not comfortably hitting quotas, I could see them just trying as hard as possible to push the off-the-shelf stuff and just not mentioning the ordering thing. Could also be that it's not an evenly applied policy across all regions? I just know the stores I've been to, and in particular, my local GW, do get some sort of credit for having items ordered online and shipped to them. My manager falls all over himself to walk someone to the store iPad display if a customer wants something he doesn't have or sell, and has mentioned this multiple times.

This was from a staff member who wasn't the manager, but I gather the manager himself shares similar views.

Ah. Thank you. Reading is fundamental. lol Could have sworn it was another customer. Still, I'd make sure the manager really is down with that. When my GW store first opened, the manager was great, but his back-up staffer was a tool. Everything that's wrong with "gaming" today. It wasn't until someone brought this to the attention of the actual manger that we all discovered the back-up was making up his own "rules".

Tycho wrote:

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

Not entirely accurate. The manager at my store explained that, while buying something off the shelf is better for him, he gets a special kind of credit for everything that gets delivered to the store. So it actually does help.

I've never heard that - perhaps it's a US-only thing?

Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

Tycho wrote:

Yes, they can order it, but it doesn't count towards their sales. Making it so that it does would go a long way to fix this issue.

Not entirely accurate. The manager at my store explained that, while buying something off the shelf is better for him, he gets a special kind of credit for everything that gets delivered to the store. So it actually does help.

My local GW actively encourages people to pre-order online for delivery to the store for pick-up on release day, so they must get some benefit (or least not harmed).

(The store employees also have plenty of FW projects on the go and a few big pieces like a Thunderhawk in/on the display cabinets.)

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

So you're complaining that a vehicle that is perfectly legal for your army is good against other vehicles in your army? So why not use it? And if you don't like MOAR books be glad you don't play csm.

It's nice that you finally admit to not liking resin at least.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

So you're complaining that a vehicle that is perfectly legal for your army is good against other vehicles in your army? So why not use it? And if you don't like MOAR books be glad you don't play csm.

It's nice that you finally admit to not liking resin at least.

Not good AGAINST them, good in place of them.

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

Yeah how about you dial your personal bias down a notch before you ban half of peoples armies just because it's made from a different material by the same company.

It's this kind of attitude that sucks, so no-one should be allowed to use 30k models in 40k ever or use any of the rediculously over pointed models because you don't like resin. So your going to ban all failcast aswell as it's still resin?

You know what's even funnier is GW rules team are writing the new rules post index's for FW now, I actually expect more dumb rules decissions and interactions from this as GW main have such a great hit rate for requiring day 1 faq's

How dare armies have more options and more variety!
Who ever wanted that!? ....... wait.

Times change, people either need to move with them or accept that they will be eternally bitter.

But I think the game needs fewer choices, not more. GW can barely balance two units, much less hundreds. When FW is ACTUALLY written by the same team, I'll reconsider. The BS 2+ dreads are almost unforgivable, though. Marines in particular need 2/3 of their models axed. They have WAY too many.


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Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

Yeah how about you dial your personal bias down a notch before you ban half of peoples armies just because it's made from a different material by the same company.

It's this kind of attitude that sucks, so no-one should be allowed to use 30k models in 40k ever or use any of the rediculously over pointed models because you don't like resin. So your going to ban all failcast aswell as it's still resin?

You know what's even funnier is GW rules team are writing the new rules post index's for FW now, I actually expect more dumb rules decissions and interactions from this as GW main have such a great hit rate for requiring day 1 faq's

You can use them as Legends, ideally. Someone in ETC apparently agrees with me, so don't try to paint my position as some nutjob outlier.

Martel732 wrote:
But I think the game needs fewer choices, not more. GW can barely balance two units, much less hundreds. When FW is ACTUALLY written by the same team, I'll reconsider. The BS 2+ dreads are almost unforgivable, though. Marines in particular need 2/3 of their models axed. They have WAY too many.


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Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

Yeah how about you dial your personal bias down a notch before you ban half of peoples armies just because it's made from a different material by the same company.

It's this kind of attitude that sucks, so no-one should be allowed to use 30k models in 40k ever or use any of the rediculously over pointed models because you don't like resin. So your going to ban all failcast aswell as it's still resin?

You know what's even funnier is GW rules team are writing the new rules post index's for FW now, I actually expect more dumb rules decissions and interactions from this as GW main have such a great hit rate for requiring day 1 faq's

You can use them as Legends, ideally.

You are so far behind that you Make yourself Look Like a clown.

Since the first ca all fw rules are weiteren by the Same Team as mainline due to the death of bleigh.

Martel732 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

So you're complaining that a vehicle that is perfectly legal for your army is good against other vehicles in your army? So why not use it? And if you don't like MOAR books be glad you don't play csm.

It's nice that you finally admit to not liking resin at least.

Not good AGAINST them, good in place of them.

Like I said before, then why not use it? Just because you don't like resin? Why? Too much work? The cost?

And as others have said, just because you don't like fw, why should it be removed as an option for everyone?

Martel732 wrote:
But I think the game needs fewer choices, not more. GW can barely balance two units, much less hundreds. When FW is ACTUALLY written by the same team, I'll reconsider. The BS 2+ dreads are almost unforgivable, though.


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Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Janky =/= broken. Leviathans were busted before IH, but the rest of the army sucked. The BS 2+ dreads wallpaper most marine vehicles, which is why I hate them in general.

And yes, I'm biased. I've never liked FW. I don't like resin. I don't like marines having 15 dreadnoughts. I don't like having to reference MOAR books.

Yeah how about you dial your personal bias down a notch before you ban half of peoples armies just because it's made from a different material by the same company.

It's this kind of attitude that sucks, so no-one should be allowed to use 30k models in 40k ever or use any of the rediculously over pointed models because you don't like resin. So your going to ban all failcast aswell as it's still resin?

You know what's even funnier is GW rules team are writing the new rules post index's for FW now, I actually expect more dumb rules decissions and interactions from this as GW main have such a great hit rate for requiring day 1 faq's

You can use them as Legends, ideally.

So basically nowhere yeah hard pass.

You also complete dodged the point of are you going to ban failcast models too?

It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Depends on the marines we're talking about. Removing fw options from csm would pretty much gut them. Our codex options are pretty gak in a lot of roles, or just non existent.

Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Does ETC limit it to space marines?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Depends on the marines we're talking about. Removing fw options from csm would pretty much gut them. Our codex options are pretty gak in a lot of roles, or just non existent.

Rather I'd just prefer people get past this FW has rules issues. Nonsence and leave them be, most of their options are over pointed like crazy.


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Martel732 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Does ETC limit it to space marines?

Well as ETC nolonger play 40k and don't have a 40k event I really don't care. Your really showing how out of touch you are.

WTC are open to reviewing FW limitation once they have themselves sorted and the updated FW rules are released.

Fine. USED to ban it. It doesn't matter that they don't play it anymore. It's not a fringe idea.

Ice_can wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It removes books from the pool and trims out a bunch of marine models. I think those interests are more beneficial than giving marines MOAR choices.

Ah so just SPACEMARINE FW you want to ban then, fine go ahead, just don't drag every other army down because of marines.

Depends on the marines we're talking about. Removing fw options from csm would pretty much gut them. Our codex options are pretty gak in a lot of roles, or just non existent.

Rather I'd just prefer people get past this FW has rules issues. Nonsence and leave them be, most of their options are over pointed like crazy.

Hopefully the new books will address the points issue, which is issue number one as far as I'm concerned.


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Martel732 wrote:
Fine. USED to ban it. It doesn't matter that they don't play it anymore. It's not a fringe idea.

You've still not addressed NotOnline!!'s point, the current Indexes were written by the gw rules team, and the upcoming books will be as well. Will that settle this for you?

If that happens, that would help a lot. I'm still not a fan of those BS 2+ dreads. I'll believe it when I see it. Of course, these are the same idiots who brought us IH supplement.

Martel732 wrote:
If that happens, that would help a lot. I'm still not a fan of those BS 2+ dreads. I'll believe it when I see it. Of course, these are the same idiots who brought us IH supplement.

Tbf most Stuff gw throws out isn't peachy and most dexes can be summarized by Bad to brokenly Bad Units with the extreme overly good performing outlier.

Much Same can be said about fw done by gw.
Most Stuff got even worse then the pitifull stopgap. And for every sm/csm dread or other that actually is good (just good , a Levi is just good without the supplement Bolt on stupidity and that makes other sm Stuff even worse.) Theres about 4 things worse then it by miles.

Martel732 wrote:If that happens, that would help a lot. I'm still not a fan of those BS 2+ dreads. I'll believe it when I see it. Of course, these are the same idiots who brought us IH supplement.

Lots of things have BS 2+, why do dreadnoughts bother you so much? Want to see Custodes go to Legends too?

Not Online!!! wrote:Tbf most Stuff gw throws out isn't peachy and most dexes can be summarized by Bad to brokenly Bad Units with the extreme overly good performing outlier.

Much Same can be said about fw done by gw.
Most Stuff got even worse then the pitifull stopgap. And for every sm/csm dread or other that actually is good (just good , a Levi is just good without the supplement Bolt on stupidity and that makes other sm Stuff even worse.) Theres about 4 things worse then it by miles.

No they've always been OP! that's why no one complained about them until the ih supplement dropped and many players forget csm can even take them, or that they have different rules.

Marine dreads have BS 3+. There's no reason for there to be marine dreads with BS 2+ other than oneupmanship Marines don't need ten different dreads anyway. The other units like Custodes are fine.