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In the battle in the forest scene when the lines are trading volleys of fire, the 54th doesn't have bayonets on their rifles, but during the transition when the charge is ordered and the camera switch back to the troops all of their bayonets are equipped.
Clearly they forgot that WYSIWYG
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 04:13:44
In the battle in the forest scene when the lines are trading volleys of fire, the 54th doesn't have bayonets on their rifles, but during the transition when the charge is ordered and the camera switch back to the troops all of their bayonets are equipped.
Clearly they forgot that WYSIWYG
You'd want to leave the bayonets off while firing repeated volleys, and only fix bayonets for making or repelling charges.
Just imagine trying to reload a muzzle-loader while there's a bayonet there to poke holes in your hands if you're not EXTREMELY careful. This dramatically slows down reloading, and therefore rate-of-fire.
SamusDrake wrote: Colonising planets for the last 57 years - and long before that - but everyone treats Ripley as a fruit cake for claimed to have seen an alien lifeform...yet the marines are aware of "xenomorphs" and have even gone on "bug hunts".
We are not actually shown any examples of any other form of extra-terrestrial life in the Alien franchise apart from the dead space jockey and the alien itself. Also, considering the sheer scale of the galaxy and the fact that they are terraforming planets rather than finding naturally habitable worlds, it is actually reasonably likely that they have not encountered any alien life, or at least alien life beyond microbial or flora. The colonisation is being carried out by corporations, they are only colonising worlds they can make a profit from, likely from resource extraction seeing as the Nostromo was hauling ore back to Earth.
As for xenomorph, that is a catch all term for any alien life form and the way they use the term bug hunt doesn't seem to me to suggest that they have encountered any alien life, but rather that it is a term which indicates it is a waste of time, akin to the phrase wild goose chase.
In the battle in the forest scene when the lines are trading volleys of fire, the 54th doesn't have bayonets on their rifles, but during the transition when the charge is ordered and the camera switch back to the troops all of their bayonets are equipped.
Clearly they forgot that WYSIWYG
You'd want to leave the bayonets off while firing repeated volleys, and only fix bayonets for making or repelling charges.
Just imagine trying to reload a muzzle-loader while there's a bayonet there to poke holes in your hands if you're not EXTREMELY careful. This dramatically slows down reloading, and therefore rate-of-fire.
Yeah, won't be managing 3 rounds a minute in any weather if you're having to avoid stabbing your own hand as you do so!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 01:32:07
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
In the battle in the forest scene when the lines are trading volleys of fire, the 54th doesn't have bayonets on their rifles, but during the transition when the charge is ordered and the camera switch back to the troops all of their bayonets are equipped.
Clearly they forgot that WYSIWYG
You'd want to leave the bayonets off while firing repeated volleys, and only fix bayonets for making or repelling charges.
Just imagine trying to reload a muzzle-loader while there's a bayonet there to poke holes in your hands if you're not EXTREMELY careful. This dramatically slows down reloading, and therefore rate-of-fire.
No.
I'm saying that in the course of like 3 seconds, they go from having no bayonets to have all their bayonets and at no point are any of them shown putting them on. In fact, the time between the last volley and the order to charge is so short the sudden appearance of bayonets can only be explained by a cut where they fitted the bayonets before resuming the scene. It's almost a blink and you'll miss it moment.
My personal most hated film for Nonsense!!! is 2012.
Literally within the first ten minutes or so we get neutrinos, a form of matter which likes to basically ignore that matter exists and fly straight through as it only interacts via the weak force, decide to suddenly start boiling heavy water and heating up the Earth's core.
Turned it off right there.
Oh and the classic double hacking scene from NCIS
Just nonsense in too many ways to describe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 01:51:57
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
SamusDrake wrote: Colonising planets for the last 57 years - and long before that - but everyone treats Ripley as a fruit cake for claimed to have seen an alien lifeform...yet the marines are aware of "xenomorphs" and have even gone on "bug hunts".
We are not actually shown any examples of any other form of extra-terrestrial life in the Alien franchise apart from the dead space jockey and the alien itself. Also, considering the sheer scale of the galaxy and the fact that they are terraforming planets rather than finding naturally habitable worlds, it is actually reasonably likely that they have not encountered any alien life, or at least alien life beyond microbial or flora. The colonisation is being carried out by corporations, they are only colonising worlds they can make a profit from, likely from resource extraction seeing as the Nostromo was hauling ore back to Earth.
As for xenomorph, that is a catch all term for any alien life form and the way they use the term bug hunt doesn't seem to me to suggest that they have encountered any alien life, but rather that it is a term which indicates it is a waste of time, akin to the phrase wild goose chase.
Also don't forget its not just an alien. It's an alien that infested and hatched from one of the crew and within less than a few days was fully grown, mature and hunting them; it has acid for blood, appears to have no eyes but has no sensory weakness; is stealthy as heck; killed a whole crew including a robot and, by virtue of the ship being blown up (and the company cover up) there's not a single CCTV or record of it save for the one crew member who escaped and who admitted to blowing up the ship.
Basically in a universe where they've clearly not encountered any higher-life-form xenos at all this sounds like a nightmare monster. More likely to be someone going space-mad than an actual fact. The fact that any physical or digital evidence is being hidden by the company means there really is very little for others to believe.
Basically on the ship sent in Aliens there's only two people who know there's a real alien. The rest are likely expecting a colony where something has gone amiss; perhaps space pirates; uprising/unrest within the colony or even just a breakdown of equipment following freak weather/accidents.
SamusDrake wrote: Colonising planets for the last 57 years - and long before that - but everyone treats Ripley as a fruit cake for claimed to have seen an alien lifeform...yet the marines are aware of "xenomorphs" and have even gone on "bug hunts".
We are not actually shown any examples of any other form of extra-terrestrial life in the Alien franchise apart from the dead space jockey and the alien itself. Also, considering the sheer scale of the galaxy and the fact that they are terraforming planets rather than finding naturally habitable worlds, it is actually reasonably likely that they have not encountered any alien life, or at least alien life beyond microbial or flora. The colonisation is being carried out by corporations, they are only colonising worlds they can make a profit from, likely from resource extraction seeing as the Nostromo was hauling ore back to Earth.
As for xenomorph, that is a catch all term for any alien life form and the way they use the term bug hunt doesn't seem to me to suggest that they have encountered any alien life, but rather that it is a term which indicates it is a waste of time, akin to the phrase wild goose chase.
Also don't forget its not just an alien. It's an alien that infested and hatched from one of the crew and within less than a few days was fully grown, mature and hunting them; it has acid for blood, appears to have no eyes but has no sensory weakness; is stealthy as heck; killed a whole crew including a robot and, by virtue of the ship being blown up (and the company cover up) there's not a single CCTV or record of it save for the one crew member who escaped and who admitted to blowing up the ship.
Basically in a universe where they've clearly not encountered any higher-life-form xenos at all this sounds like a nightmare monster. More likely to be someone going space-mad than an actual fact. The fact that any physical or digital evidence is being hidden by the company means there really is very little for others to believe.
Basically on the ship sent in Aliens there's only two people who know there's a real alien. The rest are likely expecting a colony where something has gone amiss; perhaps space pirates; uprising/unrest within the colony or even just a breakdown of equipment following freak weather/accidents.
"Hey, I sure wouldn't mind getting some more of that Arcturian poontang, remember that time?"
"Yeah, Frost, but the one that you had was male."
"It doesn't matter when it's Arcturian, baby."
―Pvt. Frost and Pvt. Spunkmeyer
The Arcturians are a humanoid, mammal-like extraterrestrial species native to the planet Arcturus.[1] They were the first sentient alien species encountered by mankind[2] and humanity has since established interspecies trade with them.[3]
Alien wiki says that humanity have already encountered other alien species. And even if we ignore wiki and just focus on the movie, that conversation between Frost and Spunkmeyer Still indicates they are talking about something other than humans.
Also, why name the Dropship "Bug Stomper" if they never have "stomped any bugs"? The marines talk about "bug hunts" as if it was something real. The Bugs don't need to have human level intelligence though. They could be just a local equivalent of rats/wolves/bears that some colonists needed help to fight against. The marines did not seem to think the "Bug Hunts" were that big of a deal.
I have the results of the last chamber: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person... We weren't even testing for that.
It's not that they have never encountered ANY alien life in the alien universe. It's that they have never encountered anything that was SO alien.
Arcturians are as they say humanoid and mammalian. Bug hunts is because they have found other insectoid species that amount to threatening pests that needed to be put down.
The titular alien is a level of lethal that has not been encountered before, and as others have pointed out, such a mish-mash of nightmare features that it sounds like a ghost story with no evidence.
Xenomorph is a catch all phrase not the name of the specific species. The specific species is actually called Xenomorph xx121 with it's scientific name most often given as "Internecivus raptus" meaning murderous thief.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
There was nothing in the canon that states Arctirians were not simply an ethnic group of humans on a world called Arcturus. Casual racism fits better with the themes and style of Aliens than experience with an actual sapient species (which would lend credence to Ripley’s claims).
There’s a lot of baggage from the Vietnam War in the movie, and the Arcturian poon tang line is evocative of that.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: There was nothing in the canon that states Arctirians were not simply an ethnic group of humans on a world called Arcturus. Casual racism fits better with the themes and style of Aliens than experience with an actual sapient species (which would lend credence to Ripley’s claims).
There’s a lot of baggage from the Vietnam War in the movie, and the Arcturian poon tang line is evocative of that.
The movie definitely doesn't imply that that Acturian's were aliens. It's pretty obvious that whole bit was a throw back to Vietnam era gak shooting, and the rampant prostitution and sex trade the US military personnel (albeit, mostly in a way that was casual rather than explicitly) was party too during the war.
Arcturians being aliens comes from a non-canon book published in 2014 (it's even cited by the wiki). I also think that's clearly not what the movie itself was trying to imply. The word 'bug hunt' is used in a sense that feels like its meant to be 'wild goose chase' and no one at any point takes Ripley's story seriously, which would be weird if humanity had extensive knowledge that advanced alien lifeforms existed. It's possible the marines have encountered some alien life but it was probably just pests and such and nothing that actually mattered. The Colonial Marines spent most of their time dealing with rebellions and chasing shadows based on frivolous complaints from colonists (and this is reaching for their technical manual, which isn't really anymore canon than the book people are referencing but at least comes from some of the same people who made the movie).
But really, the Alien canon is an utter mess, so it may not be worth quibbling over. There's never really been any attempt at keeping the franchise coherent across entries.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 16:05:58
The Colonial Marines Technical Manual had a lot of thought out into it and clearly fits the setting. The “Arcturians are space mammals” comes from the same school of low-effort cash ins as the Ghostbusters comics that show the large and moving Torb and the Giant Sloar are both pretty much just space dinosaurs.
Well, I think everybody were acting pretty blasé if this was indeed the humanitys (possible) first contact with any extra-terrestrial species (sapient or not).
Also, why was there a term Xenomorph thrown around in the briefing if humanity had never encountered any extra-terrestrial lifeforms (sapient or not) while they were gallivanting around the galaxy...
I have the results of the last chamber: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person... We weren't even testing for that.
Col Hammer wrote: Well, I think everybody were acting pretty blasé if this was indeed the humanitys (possible) first contact with any extra-terrestrial species (sapient or not).
Also, why was there a term Xenomorph thrown around in the briefing if humanity had never encountered any extra-terrestrial lifeforms (sapient or not) while they were gallivanting around the galaxy...
A generic phrase with Greek roots? They could have just invented it, or they might have theorized it long before the encounter as a possibility. IDK. Because the plot called for a name.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We have the word xenomorph right now. And everyone understands what it means without us having met any aliens.
"All we know is that there’s still no contact with the colony," replies the lieutenant, Gorman, "and that a xenomorph may be involved."
"Excuse me, sir," interjects PFC Frost from the back row, "—a what?"
"A xenomorph," repeats Gorman, emphasizing the syllables.
It seems that not everyone understands what it means…
I have the results of the last chamber: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person... We weren't even testing for that.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We have the word xenomorph right now. And everyone understands what it means without us having met any aliens.
While the word obviously existed before Aliens II it's only in wider use (I would posit) due to the Alien franchise. Which begs the idea that the marines in a movie use a term made common because of the same movie! The movie Aliens II exists in the fictional world of Aliens II.
Suffice it to say that I'm sure their world setting has words for aliens including Xenomorph. Soldiers and those used to dealing with people and fighting and such likely dont' have any need to know the term because, there just aren't Xenomorphs out there for them to have encountered and used it in common parlance.
It's much like when things change in the world we live in and once uncommon terms become common. I'm sure electric cars are introducing new terms and concepts to even mechanics even though there's nothing new in the electrical systems as concepts. It's just something they've never had to learn/use/interact with before.
Broadly speaking most people learn what they need of the world to function - what they need for their job; life and interests. Anything outside can be interesting, but unless it affects them they are less likely to devote time to learning it.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We have the word xenomorph right now. And everyone understands what it means without us having met any aliens.
"All we know is that there’s still no contact with the colony," replies the lieutenant, Gorman, "and that a xenomorph may be involved."
"Excuse me, sir," interjects PFC Frost from the back row, "—a what?"
"A xenomorph," repeats Gorman, emphasizing the syllables.
It seems that not everyone understands what it means…
If anything, that just strengthens my point that “xenomorph” the word existing does not mean humanity has met salient aliens. It’s being used how more like how someone today would use it, and getting the kind of response that wouldn’t make sense if humanity had made the ultimate discovery, a shift in our understanding of life in the universe so profound it would be unavoidable even for ....grunts.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We have the word xenomorph right now. And everyone understands what it means without us having met any aliens.
"All we know is that there’s still no contact with the colony," replies the lieutenant, Gorman, "and that a xenomorph may be involved."
"Excuse me, sir," interjects PFC Frost from the back row, "—a what?"
"A xenomorph," repeats Gorman, emphasizing the syllables.
It seems that not everyone understands what it means…
If anything, that just strengthens my point that “xenomorph” the word existing does not mean humanity has met salient aliens. It’s being used how more like how someone today would use it, and getting the kind of response that wouldn’t make sense if humanity had made the ultimate discovery, a shift in our understanding of life in the universe so profound it would be unavoidable even for ....grunts.
Unless the first contact has happened, like, 80 years ago and the current crop of humanity has grown with the knowledge that we are not alone in the universe... And marines assigned in the colonies would have come across with alien lifeforms already ("bug hunts"...)
I have the results of the last chamber: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person... We weren't even testing for that.
I think you're shoving in a context the movie clearly doesn't support.
The literal question that gets asked:
"Is this going to be a stand up fight, sir, or another bug hunt?"
I don't think Hudson was talking about literal bugs. He was asking if they were actually going to be doing anything or just snipe hunting. The context is clearly more like 'wild goose chase' than 'are we going to be hunting alien bugs again.'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 17:05:57
If the marines believed that there really were Xenomorphs then their training and regime would be far more serious.
The company would be sending staff beyond one manager and their advice/brief would likely come through formal channels and intense study of Ripley's comments and details. Rather than the rather jovial attitude they take which is that she's rather insane and that chances are it was some big scary dog or something.
I mean she's describing a creature with acid for blood that matures in hours; that grows within your chest and explodes out within hours. It's the stuff of horror and sci-fi films rather than sound tactics.
Heck if the company was being serious (remember they don't believe her - they've had a colony there for years already without any alien space ship being seen or any alien contact). They'd have likely sent several teams and maintained and orbital command post instead of a ground command post.
LordofHats wrote: I think you're shoving in a context the movie clearly doesn't support.
The literal question that gets asked:
"Is this going to be a stand up fight, sir, or another bug hunt?"
I don't think Hudson was talking about literal bugs. He was asking if they were actually going to be doing anything or just snipe hunting. The context is clearly more like 'wild goose chase' than 'are we going to be hunting alien bugs again.'
The drop ships name was "Bug Stomper" with a motto "We Endanger Species"
I wonder what species it is referring to?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: If the marines believed that there really were Xenomorphs then their training and regime would be far more serious.
The company would be sending staff beyond one manager and their advice/brief would likely come through formal channels and intense study of Ripley's comments and details. Rather than the rather jovial attitude they take which is that she's rather insane and that chances are it was some big scary dog or something.
I mean she's describing a creature with acid for blood that matures in hours; that grows within your chest and explodes out within hours. It's the stuff of horror and sci-fi films rather than sound tactics.
Heck if the company was being serious (remember they don't believe her - they've had a colony there for years already without any alien space ship being seen or any alien contact). They'd have likely sent several teams and maintained and orbital command post instead of a ground command post.
The mission was Burkes private affair more or less. Unlike the company in general, he thought there were some merit in Ripleys story. He sent the colonists from Hadley's Hope searching for the alien ship. They brought the eggs/facehuggers into the colony for study. Burke, acting on behalf of the company, kept the lid on the news from getting out. Then the colony went silent. Burke put together a small team to check it out without informing his superiors about the situation (had they known, there would have been a proper investigation team).
Basically, Burke wanted all of the glory from this find for himself. You'll notice that the marines get briefed only after they arrive at the destination (Lt. Gorman knew more beforehand thought).
The whole movie happened basically because Burke was greedy and wanted to control the find without his superiors getting involved and taking away the the find from him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 20:50:59
I have the results of the last chamber: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person... We weren't even testing for that.
The drop ships name was "Bug Stomper" with a motto "We Endanger Species"
I wonder what species it is referring to?
And we paint shark mouths and pin-up women on our aircraft and call them stuff like Enola Gay and Memphis Belle but that doesn't make them sharks or women. If that dropship had any confirmed kills of bugs it would 100% be shown in a tally next to said nose art, just as successful missions and kills were displayed on WW2 aircraft.
Consider how gung ho the marines were and Hudson bragging about the level of firepower they had access to on the drop down. Doesn't mean they ever actually used any of it in combat.
I'm pretty sure that the dakka members who have served in the armed forces of their respective countries will probably all agree that they talked an immense amount of gak with their squad mates, or had comrades who did, with regards to how badass they were and the level of firepower their respective country has access to (and doubly so if they were talking to people from a different branch of the military). That motto is just an extension of this chest beating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/21 02:01:20
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
