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 ClockworkZion wrote:

gungo wrote:
All hail our new tyranid overlords and aeldari right behind them…

The fact Gw ignored these 2 factions show they still have no idea how to balance anything. We just go from 1 broken codex to the next… yea maybe aeldari wasn’t as broken as harlequins or even tau but they were still winning vs those codexes at an extremely high rate compared to every other codex.

They nerfed clowns, and Armour of Contempt nerfs Shuriken weapons against those armies who got buffed. Not every change has to be directly made to an army to affect that army.

They also nerfed the truly degenerate Eldar indirect fire builds. I really doubt Craftworlds will be sitting at the top of the meta. Probably more GSC level, which is fine.

Very interesting points and discussion.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

gungo wrote:
All hail our new tyranid overlords and aeldari right behind them…

The fact Gw ignored these 2 factions show they still have no idea how to balance anything. We just go from 1 broken codex to the next… yea maybe aeldari wasn’t as broken as harlequins or even tau but they were still winning vs those codexes at an extremely high rate compared to every other codex.

They nerfed clowns, and Armour of Contempt nerfs Shuriken weapons against those armies who got buffed. Not every change has to be directly made to an army to affect that army.

Armor of contempt won’t keep eldar from winning which they already were doing… it’s a bandaid to most power armor armies.. I think sisters might be legit A tier, but honestly what other power armor armies was even remotely legitimate that a boost to basic power armor units would make the army competitive? I mean those units mostly needed the help but that’s because the vast majority of them were just bad choices before.

Tyranids without a day 1 errata is busted and eldar is still overpowered… custodes are mostly done.. tau are good but has more counters now. My point still stands the meta is still busted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

gungo wrote:
All hail our new tyranid overlords and aeldari right behind them…

The fact Gw ignored these 2 factions show they still have no idea how to balance anything. We just go from 1 broken codex to the next… yea maybe aeldari wasn’t as broken as harlequins or even tau but they were still winning vs those codexes at an extremely high rate compared to every other codex.

They nerfed clowns, and Armour of Contempt nerfs Shuriken weapons against those armies who got buffed. Not every change has to be directly made to an army to affect that army.

They also nerfed the truly degenerate Eldar indirect fire builds. I really doubt Craftworlds will be sitting at the top of the meta. Probably more GSC level, which is fine.

Craftworld wont Tyranids will be but craftworld will still be right behind them.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/zNYDiBPKGflEhGZp.pdf

Revised dataslate uploaded today with obsec restored to Knights, and clarifications on Guard:

Hammer of the Emperor: If every <Regiment> unit in your army is drawn from the same regiment, then each time a <Regiment> model from your army makes a ranged attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target. Note that units listed as Advisors and Auxilla (including Militarum Tempestus units) do not prevent other Astra Militarum units from your army from gaining this rule, but Advisors and Auxilla units (including Militarum Tempestus units) never benefit from this rule.’

And now they’ve eliminated mid supplement use too.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/XTEpZheWFGC2pWI3.pdf

Crusher, Levi dead.

Crusher is understandable. I don't like the precedent killing Levi sets. They should have just updated it via FAQ if that was the issue.

That does seem odd in the case of Leviathan, and unfair in the case of Scions not getting HotE.

"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

It’s crazy those supplements (late october 2021) even the white dwarf (December 2021) are only a few months old…

We are at the point now where buying rules don’t even last 6months before they can be completely invalidated (not just faq/errata). That’s insane for a $55 book!


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Quasistellar wrote:
That does seem odd in the case of Leviathan, and unfair in the case of Scions not getting HotE.

Funny enough I think there was a play in there where a scion army would have been slightly competitive… now I don’t think there is a list that’s actually competitive for guards. The buff is strong but guardsmen are so easy to shift i don’t think it really matters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

White Knights will defend it via "just use it anyway!" and "What are you, a power gamer?"

On the one hand, they told us upfront that the warzones for this year would be temporary garbage publications.

It doesn't explain why they still went ahead and did them or why people bought them (except those two things basically answering each other), but hopefully this will deter people from chasing this junk.


on guard- well, at least scions don't turn it off for the rest of the army I guess. But... yeah, well. Don't like this patch approach anyway. I'm not putting guard on the table until the codex comes out.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

White Knights will defend it via "just use it anyway!" and "What are you, a power gamer?"

Was there a sale on straw? Getting those strawmen set up early, I see!

It's called poisoning the well actually, but it doesn't make him wrong.

It’s not safe to drink from the Dakka well due to the salt content.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

White Knights will defend it via "just use it anyway!" and "What are you, a power gamer?"

Don't forget "You already have lots of books !" and the ever popular "It's just toys !".

Sounds like for guardsmen, the more reasonable approach would have been “autowounds enemy INFANTRY on a hit roll of 6”.

And does this mean that the upgraded fleshborers don’t even get to use their spiffy AP -1 for a month before being nerfed?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s not safe to drink from the Dakka well due to the salt content.

Great, it will preserve my meat and i'll still be here to bitch in one hundred years, when we reach 40th ed and the Primaris get their 10 000th relase.

Voss wrote:
On the one hand, they told us upfront that the warzones for this year would be temporary garbage publications.

It doesn't explain why they still went ahead and did them or why people bought them (except those two things basically answering each other), but hopefully this will deter people from chasing this junk.


on guard- well, at least scions don't turn it off for the rest of the army I guess. But... yeah, well. Don't like this patch approach anyway. I'm not putting guard on the table until the codex comes out.

I mean every tyranid player pretty much used (and had to use those supplements to be competitive).. if the event requires them to have the book (which after this nonsense I hope no event enforces that junk) then they had to get it to have a competitive army list.

Still doesn’t make it any less crazy that Gw releases a $55 book of rules that expires in 5 months at least white dwarf only costs $4-5.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

White Knights will defend it via "just use it anyway!" and "What are you, a power gamer?"

Even the white knights aren't defending this one.

I dunno, reddit seems really happy.

so this is what "stay positive towards the game" means

but at least Reddit is happy

Pretty much everyone that isn't playing Tyranids is happy about it, because new Codex with Leviathan and Crusher Stampede rules would have been pretty much bs.

Still does feel bad for us Tyranid players.

Nids with those 2 supplements and everything else getting nerfed would've had 80% win rate.

gungo wrote:

Still doesn’t make it any less crazy that Gw releases a $55 book of rules that expires in 5 months at least white dwarf only costs $4-5.

GW have producing mixed content books like these for years. Some people do actually buy them for the fluff & artwork content (which isn't bad), some buy them for the interesting rules, some for both. However in previous editions rules in ephemeral books like these weren't really part of the main 40k game. They tended to be targeted at narrative campaigns or under the Apocalypse brand, so the rules content and longevity didn't matter too much. Everything was intended for a casual game environment where those rules could be kept 'viable' for longer*.

I believe the root issue is that GW are still doing these books with matched play rules content at the same time as making an active effort at game balance. Both actions are not compatible. If they're going to produce one-off supplements like this they need to go back to making them for narrative / Crusade style content only. If GW's goal is to write temporary rules to keep a faction viable in matched play, those rules should either be a free download or part of a product with a longer shelf life.

*let's not forget the 6E Iyanden Apocalypse book, which had several rules broken by 7E releasing a week later

Toofast wrote:
Nids with those 2 supplements and everything else getting nerfed would've had 80% win rate.

They're still probably gonna have like a 70% of something. Y'know what they say, life, uh, finds a way.

Why are people surprised that a 5 month old book already got taken behind the shed, afterall its still the same GW that did this to traitor legions supplement in 7th.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Why are people surprised that a 5 month old book already got taken behind the shed, afterall its still the same GW that did this to traitor legions supplement in 7th.

Because I keep being told "Kirby and his team aren't there any more, things are DIFFERENT". I'm not sure how they're different, balance is still atrocious and $50+ books are still being invalidated 6 months after release. They have a "community" website now, but it's just ads for their upcoming releases. They have an app for rules now, but you have to pay for a subscription, pay for a physical book to get the rules digitally, and it has more errors than a free app that was abandoned by its developer a year ago. Prices are still going up faster than the rate of inflation. The website created by Kirby's wife still can't distinguish between temporarily out of stock and never coming back. Someone tell me what has changed so drastically since Kirby left.

Toofast wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Why are people surprised that a 5 month old book already got taken behind the shed, afterall its still the same GW that did this to traitor legions supplement in 7th.

Because I keep being told "Kirby and his team aren't there any more, things are DIFFERENT". I'm not sure how they're different, balance is still atrocious and $50+ books are still being invalidated 6 months after release. They have a "community" website now, but it's just ads for their upcoming releases. They have an app for rules now, but you have to pay for a subscription, pay for a physical book to get the rules digitally, and it has more errors than a free app that was abandoned by its developer a year ago. Prices are still going up faster than the rate of inflation. The website created by Kirby's wife still can't distinguish between temporarily out of stock and never coming back. Someone tell me what has changed so drastically since Kirby left.

Well they added a Facebook management intern, forced FW rules inhouse much to the detriment of anyone owning FW models, killed off 3 whole armies with legends and some pretty important units and adopted even more "live-service-game" strategies, oh and they hiked prices again and attempt cult-marketing strategies like Apple and consorts and paywall balance updates.

but fundamentally not much, maybee they gotten worse from a customer perspective even arguably.

Toofast wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Why are people surprised that a 5 month old book already got taken behind the shed, afterall its still the same GW that did this to traitor legions supplement in 7th.

Because I keep being told "Kirby and his team aren't there any more, things are DIFFERENT". I'm not sure how they're different, balance is still atrocious and $50+ books are still being invalidated 6 months after release. They have a "community" website now, but it's just ads for their upcoming releases. They have an app for rules now, but you have to pay for a subscription, pay for a physical book to get the rules digitally, and it has more errors than a free app that was abandoned by its developer a year ago. Prices are still going up faster than the rate of inflation. The website created by Kirby's wife still can't distinguish between temporarily out of stock and never coming back. Someone tell me what has changed so drastically since Kirby left.

Marketing.

Kirby's GW is infamously attributed to never doing any market research, which is one of the fastest ways to die as a company, and GW these days seems to at least try to understand their market (still does stupid decisions based on that understanding).

And also the balance updates, which while badly done are still preferable to being stuck with a static meta for entire years (which btw wasn't particularly more balanced that the mess we have now). I mean, I would have been very happy if the 5th ed Tyranid codex had been invalidated 3 months after its release because that codex sucked... and the same goes for the 6th one.

Also throw in release schedule, GW's updating all armies in an edition cycle was pretty much a pipe dream before 7th.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"That book you got not long ago? Yeah, it's not legal for your army anymore. Sucks to be you I guess!"

The writing was on the wall with GW discontinuing the supplements a month back or so.