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Tomb King wrote:

TheHarleqwin wrote:

Also, as I state repeatedly to anyone that will listen: "OP" is a sore loser's way of saying "I don't have the skill or the drive to make an army that can take this one".

Sigh... you should really read the thread before posting garbage like this because your basically calling over 50% of the people that voted in the thread sore losers. A lot of good players(skill) hate grey knights(drive) with a passion and regardless of what they do sometimes victory is just unachievable. Say you run against a draigowing and you have the tools to beat and you manage to pull off the win. The next round you run into Purifier spam and get smashed or even if you pull it off the following round could see henchman spam. If you can find me an army that can deal with all 3 of those builds while still be an all comer list against other armies let me know. As of right now such an army does not exist. That is why the general consensus agree they are over-powered because they have so many options available to them that if you build to handle them you have to cover such a wide variety of strong list that you could still hit a mismatch.

So, lets say you run up on deathwing first game, then you run up on A vulkan list next round, and then you have to go up against guard or eldar, THEN you have to go up against tau....

dude your logic here fails.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

TheHarleqwin wrote:

Also, as I state repeatedly to anyone that will listen: "OP" is a sore loser's way of saying "I don't have the skill or the drive to make an army that can take this one".

Sigh... you should really read the thread before posting garbage like this because your basically calling over 50% of the people that voted in the thread sore losers. A lot of good players(skill) hate grey knights(drive) with a passion and regardless of what they do sometimes victory is just unachievable. Say you run against a draigowing and you have the tools to beat and you manage to pull off the win. The next round you run into Purifier spam and get smashed or even if you pull it off the following round could see henchman spam. If you can find me an army that can deal with all 3 of those builds while still be an all comer list against other armies let me know. As of right now such an army does not exist. That is why the general consensus agree they are over-powered because they have so many options available to them that if you build to handle them you have to cover such a wide variety of strong list that you could still hit a mismatch.

So, lets say you run up on deathwing first game, then you run up on A vulkan list next round, and then you have to go up against guard or eldar, THEN you have to go up against tau....

dude your logic here fails.

Oh that is easy. Grey knights beat them all.

yeah. Sure. Deathwing has access to Stormshields, Vulkan has freaking twinlinked melta and flamer weapons, and guard, well guard tear grey knights a new one. and tau? tau can sit outside of the effective range of most of the grey knights stuff, be immune to anything they have past 24" (practically) and shell them with str 10 ap 1 shots.

I'm curious to just how the toughest bastards in the known reaches of space are supposed to not be the toughest


I mean if you are comparing things do you not take into consideration that they are different?

Tomb King wrote:Sigh... you should really read the thread before posting garbage like this because your basically calling over 50% of the people that voted in the thread sore losers. A lot of good players(skill) hate grey knights(drive) with a passion and regardless of what they do sometimes victory is just unachievable. Say you run against a draigowing and you have the tools to beat and you manage to pull off the win. The next round you run into Purifier spam and get smashed or even if you pull it off the following round could see henchman spam. If you can find me an army that can deal with all 3 of those builds while still be an all comer list against other armies let me know. As of right now such an army does not exist. That is why the general consensus agree they are over-powered because they have so many options available to them that if you build to handle them you have to cover such a wide variety of strong list that you could still hit a mismatch.

So if the three GK powerbuilds were distributed across three distinct, mono-build books, that would be better?

Gornall wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Sigh... you should really read the thread before posting garbage like this because your basically calling over 50% of the people that voted in the thread sore losers. A lot of good players(skill) hate grey knights(drive) with a passion and regardless of what they do sometimes victory is just unachievable. Say you run against a draigowing and you have the tools to beat and you manage to pull off the win. The next round you run into Purifier spam and get smashed or even if you pull it off the following round could see henchman spam. If you can find me an army that can deal with all 3 of those builds while still be an all comer list against other armies let me know. As of right now such an army does not exist. That is why the general consensus agree they are over-powered because they have so many options available to them that if you build to handle them you have to cover such a wide variety of strong list that you could still hit a mismatch.

So if the three GK powerbuilds were distributed across three distinct, mono-build books, that would be better?

Apparently IG having foot guard, air cav and leaf blower makes them also op. Necrons have wraitwing, scarab farm, ctan trickery, etc so must be op since they also require different stuff to win. BA dreadnaught spam, DOA, DC and such also all need different stuff.. Must be op. Dont use the idea of multiple builds meaning a book is op. Almost every new codex can make 3 or more competitive lists thats different to play against.

Freaking air cav, IG lists with model counts that low should NOT be that competitive. At least without a squadron or two of heavy tanks.

gendoikari87 wrote:Freaking air cav, IG lists with model counts that low should NOT be that competitive. At least without a squadron or two of heavy tanks.

Veterans with camo-cloaks. 2+ cover save and 3 BS 4 potentially twin-linked plasma guns.
That for the same cost as a ten-man marine squad.

Joey wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:Freaking air cav, IG lists with model counts that low should NOT be that competitive. At least without a squadron or two of heavy tanks.

Veterans with camo-cloaks. 2+ cover save and 3 BS 4 potentially twin-linked plasma guns.
That for the same cost as a ten-man marine squad.

145 points. Can be spammed a gak ton. Also it's only a 3+ cover.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Joey wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:Freaking air cav, IG lists with model counts that low should NOT be that competitive. At least without a squadron or two of heavy tanks.

Veterans with camo-cloaks. 2+ cover save and 3 BS 4 potentially twin-linked plasma guns.
That for the same cost as a ten-man marine squad.

145 points. Can be spammed a gak ton. Also it's only a 3+ cover.

Give them vox casters for 150, chances of receiving an order are pretty high. Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight (or whatever it's called) and they can shoot again. The enemy will need 6 wounds to kill each one so they become incredibly durable, the only downside is the sheer amount of wounds that can be inflicted will inevitably have to be allocated on the specials, today I had all three of them roll a 1...d'oh.

Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight

That's freaking diabolical.... And people call grey knights OP.

Edit: Add a chimera so they will ALWAYS have that cover..... dude.....

gendoikari87 wrote:

Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight

That's freaking diabolical.... And people call grey knights OP.

Edit: Add a chimera so they will ALWAYS have that cover..... dude.....

Yup. And rapid firing plasma guns from the firing hatch. And having five of these in a 1500 point list. Plus the command squad, with four plasmas, plus 3 Leman Russ Demolishers for a solid base in your gunline. I think most IG players are so civilised that it doesn't bother people.

How many competetive lists a codex can make does not make it OP. If anything, I applaud a codex with the kind of internal balance that allows for multible lists. GK has a lot of problems, not being monobuild is not one of them

Luke_Prowler wrote:How many competetive lists a codex can make does not make it OP. If anything, I applaud a codex with the kind of internal balance that allows for multible lists. GK has a lot of problems, not being monobuild is not one of them

Agreed. It doesn't really matter how many strong builds a codex has, it matters how powerful specific builds are.

Joey wrote:Give them vox casters for 150, chances of receiving an order are pretty high. Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight (or whatever it's called) and they can shoot again. The enemy will need 6 wounds to kill each one so they become incredibly durable, the only downside is the sheer amount of wounds that can be inflicted will inevitably have to be allocated on the specials, today I had all three of them roll a 1...d'oh.

I take it people in your area don't use template weapons such as flamers, heavy flamers, incinerators or my favorite tank, the redeemer

Tomb King wrote:Sigh... you should really read the thread before posting garbage like this because your basically calling over 50% of the people that voted in the thread sore losers. A lot of good players(skill) hate grey knights(drive) with a passion and regardless of what they do sometimes victory is just unachievable. Say you run against a draigowing and you have the tools to beat and you manage to pull off the win. The next round you run into Purifier spam and get smashed or even if you pull it off the following round could see henchman spam. If you can find me an army that can deal with all 3 of those builds while still be an all comer list against other armies let me know. As of right now such an army does not exist. That is why the general consensus agree they are over-powered because they have so many options available to them that if you build to handle them you have to cover such a wide variety of strong list that you could still hit a mismatch.

40k was like that well before the GK's came out, honestly I think the DE dark lance spam is beyond a joke, I played a guy at 1k and he had 9 dark lances in his list, just horrible, I was lucky I managed to deploy all my stuff in cover so I could take out the ravagers turn on one, I had played the list before and got completely wiped out. What about space wolves? grey hunter spam is still damn good, relentless longfangs with counter attack anyone? I think we have a lot of silly options now, certainly certain things should have never made it into the books and I don't agree with characters that change the force organization. Purifiers and Paladins should never have a option to be troops, then again neither should deathwing, I don't mind when characters make things to count as scoring (thats ok). I feel we are getting back to the point that special characters are starting ruin the game and I think thats really the main issue with grey knights. Purifiers and Paladins wouldn't be half as bad if they had to compete over the limited elite slots!

The grenades are silly but if we look in all the new books we can find something that's just as silly, mind scarabs, haywire grenades, devs with A2 and counter attack (I hate longfangs), the list could go on really.

itsonlyme wrote:

Joey wrote:Give them vox casters for 150, chances of receiving an order are pretty high. Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight (or whatever it's called) and they can shoot again. The enemy will need 6 wounds to kill each one so they become incredibly durable, the only downside is the sheer amount of wounds that can be inflicted will inevitably have to be allocated on the specials, today I had all three of them roll a 1...d'oh.

I take it people in your area don't use template weapons such as flamers, heavy flamers, incinerators or my favorite tank, the redeemer

If they get close enough to use them.. lol

itsonlyme wrote:

Joey wrote:Give them vox casters for 150, chances of receiving an order are pretty high. Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight (or whatever it's called) and they can shoot again. The enemy will need 6 wounds to kill each one so they become incredibly durable, the only downside is the sheer amount of wounds that can be inflicted will inevitably have to be allocated on the specials, today I had all three of them roll a 1...d'oh.

I take it people in your area don't use template weapons such as flamers, heavy flamers, incinerators or my favorite tank, the redeemer

One of my favorite units to use as IG is a Platoon command squad with four flamers, and twin flamers on the chim. Now that, Ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a close range scorking hellhound.

Draigo wrote:If they get close enough to use them.. lol

Do what, now?

Monster Rain wrote:

Draigo wrote:If they get close enough to use them.. lol

Do what, now?

Yes because everyone has those..

Draigo wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Draigo wrote:If they get close enough to use them.. lol

Do what, now?

Yes because everyone has those..

My sternguard, tactical squads and venerabe dreadnought does, I think thats everyone but my speeders my grey knights get close enough, cover and popping smoke people are usually to busy shooting the stormraven to worry about anything else :p

gendoikari87 wrote:

itsonlyme wrote:

Joey wrote:Give them vox casters for 150, chances of receiving an order are pretty high. Go to ground in the shooting phase for 2+ cover and you can order Back To the Fight (or whatever it's called) and they can shoot again. The enemy will need 6 wounds to kill each one so they become incredibly durable, the only downside is the sheer amount of wounds that can be inflicted will inevitably have to be allocated on the specials, today I had all three of them roll a 1...d'oh.

I take it people in your area don't use template weapons such as flamers, heavy flamers, incinerators or my favorite tank, the redeemer

One of my favorite units to use as IG is a Platoon command squad with four flamers, and twin flamers on the chim. Now that, Ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a close range scorking hellhound.

I love my Paladins with twin incinerators for the template abuse , great way to target multiple units at once great fun storming out of a redeemer, maybe I should give my GM a incinerator as well for 5 strength 6 templates in one spot

itsonlyme wrote:

Draigo wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Draigo wrote:If they get close enough to use them.. lol

Do what, now?

Yes because everyone has those..

My sternguard, tactical squads and venerabe dreadnought does, I think thats everyone but my speeders my grey knights get close enough, cover and popping smoke people are usually to busy shooting the stormraven to worry about anything else :p

Ah still naming things that not everyone has congrats. Though keep telling yourself the grey knight can do it that easy because youll need it if they blast you off the table. lol

Draigo wrote:Ah still naming things that not everyone has congrats. Though keep telling yourself the grey knight can do it that easy because youll need it if they blast you off the table. lol

If they don't have them then its not my problem really :p I will keep telling myself that, last time I played guard my redeemer was the only thing I had left, it was fine because he didn't have anything left :p was amusing chasing his infantry around with that, actually did that to a DE player as well, he forgot to give his wyches haywire grenades so my redeemer killed all 40 of them

itsonlyme wrote:

Draigo wrote:Ah still naming things that not everyone has congrats. Though keep telling yourself the grey knight can do it that easy because youll need it if they blast you off the table. lol

If they don't have them then its not my problem really :p I will keep telling myself that, last time I played guard my redeemer was the only thing I had left, it was fine because he didn't have anything left :p was amusing chasing his infantry around with that, actually did that to a DE player as well, he forgot to give his wyches haywire grenades so my redeemer killed all 40 of them

ouch lol

Was more funny because he was implying that Redeemers are rubbish and going on about how no one uses them, I don't think he realized it ignored FNP on his wyches my grey knight redeemer showed him and his stupid paper planes.

I am preety sure every marine player owns at least one. Hell, I play BA and I even own one. It is used for terrain.

Don't kid yourself, drop pod armies are scary beasts.

Hhhmm every marine? Im afraid my gk dont and neither do any xenos outside of nids. Though as far as your statement on drop pod lists I diagree. Go ahead and bring your army piecemeal to me I will appreciate it and ill appreciate the extra kp.

Until your opponent learns that he can reserve everything. It stops working after that. It also doesn't work if they have a land raider with a unit with warp quake inside. I hate warp quake.

Draigo wrote:Yes because everyone has those..

Truly, Space Marines (and variants thereof) with Drop Pods are a rarity.

Monster Rain wrote:

Draigo wrote:Yes because everyone has those..

Truly, Space Marines (and variants thereof) with Drop Pods are a rarity.

Well minus gk..

Though that option doesnt do much for non sm.

It was one common method of delivering flame templates. I shouldn't have to explain that it wasn't an exhaustive list of things that can ignore cover that can come up on you in a hurry.