Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mwahaha, got a ninja shopper to pick up all 4 Battlegrounds exclusive heroes for me at Spiel!

One more idea of terrain - something undeadish, Garden of Morr style etc.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
“Archon Almost” sadly echoes my own thoughts.

I recall hearing that the Kazumi Temple Rampart sets did not sell well. But it it one of my favorite sets and considering the big player base of GW Seraphon/Lizardmen it should sell well. I want to see it sell well and so even more can be designed and sold to folks like me.. But it will not sell well without good floors (and roofs) so that customers can create buildings without having to build those from scratch.

Definitely agree. I explored the limits of the kit walkway pieces:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/526287428614736/posts/807491850494291
https://www.facebook.com/groups/526287428614736/posts/900749751168500/

And played with using City Ruins floors for Kazumi:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/526287428614736/posts/788875829022560/

And escalated to making some magnetized floors:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/526287428614736/posts/772471943996282/

When I get around to it, I'll make 3d printable floors for Kazumi and Cobalt

Timd, those are some clever conversions. They certainly show the potential of the terrain. I doubt the average customer has your modeling skills however. I hope to create a ziggurat temple out of the Kazumi sets at some point and need to figure out a floor system that works better for me than the current concrete and rebar Rampart floor pieces.

As for my Cobalt pieces, I am unsure if I will keep them or sell them on.

I inflicted my opinions on a couple of Archon staff members at Spiel, with from the facial expressions, mixed results. I will talk more about it in an upcoming blog post but for now let me say Archon had a very large and well presented display at Spiel.
Lots of stock on sale. Various product lines. Painted and unpainted examples. Many of the painted pieces were sublime. They were countered by an awkwardly assembled unpainted Sorcerer‘s Spire made of D&L pieces that I felt was counterproductive in showing the products potential off. The staff member were polite and attentive but I felt I was not successful in adequately expressing my points.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

I inflicted my opinions on a couple of Archon staff members at Spiel, with from the facial expressions, mixed results. I will talk more about it in an upcoming blog post but for now let me say Archon had a very large and well presented display at Spiel.
Lots of stock on sale. Various product lines. Painted and unpainted examples. Many of the painted pieces were sublime. They were countered by an awkwardly assembled unpainted Sorcerer‘s Spire made of D&L pieces that I felt was counterproductive in showing the products potential off. The staff member were polite and attentive but I felt I was not successful in adequately expressing my points.

I'm afraid I don't know exactly which employees you talked to, but it's possible they aren't involved with D&L at all or aren't involved in the design process, as we have a variety of different products. In general, I do recommend posting through our social media channels as you're a lot more likely to get heard there. If you're able to get a hold of the project manager or CEO during these events, they're also a lot more likely to listen. In other news, it seems like it's been decided that I'll be attending Essen next year :p

@Szymon_Archon - do you know maybe how much in retail M&M boxes will cost? I am interested in miniatures only (Necropolis and Fortress are my favourites), and in case that minis are not released separately, I would like to know if the cost for the box will justify buying it just for minis.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

I inflicted my opinions on a couple of Archon staff members at Spiel, with from the facial expressions, mixed results. I will talk more about it in an upcoming blog post but for now let me say Archon had a very large and well presented display at Spiel.
Lots of stock on sale. Various product lines. Painted and unpainted examples. Many of the painted pieces were sublime. They were countered by an awkwardly assembled unpainted Sorcerer‘s Spire made of D&L pieces that I felt was counterproductive in showing the products potential off. The staff member were polite and attentive but I felt I was not successful in adequately expressing my points.

I'm afraid I don't know exactly which employees you talked to, but it's possible they aren't involved with D&L at all or aren't involved in the design process, as we have a variety of different products. In general, I do recommend posting through our social media channels as you're a lot more likely to get heard there. If you're able to get a hold of the project manager or CEO during these events, they're also a lot more likely to listen. In other news, it seems like it's been decided that I'll be attending Essen next year :p

The first member of staff mentioned working in the stockroom I believe but he took me to another staff member whom he said was formerly a project leader… I believe for D&L but he also seemed quite proud of the He-Man product line as well as the overall stall layout, which was quite large. One of the biggest tabletop wargaming miniatures stalls at the show. As big as if not bigger than Games Workshop. My guess would be that he was the senior staff member present on Friday. He tolerated this muttonchoped American for quite some time and I would be surprised if he forgot the exchange.

I am not on social media, which is quite frustrating as I tended to get blank looks at Spiel when I mentioned The Lead Adventure Forum and Dakka Dakka to folks running various stalls.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

I inflicted my opinions on a couple of Archon staff members at Spiel, with from the facial expressions, mixed results. I will talk more about it in an upcoming blog post but for now let me say Archon had a very large and well presented display at Spiel.
Lots of stock on sale. Various product lines. Painted and unpainted examples. Many of the painted pieces were sublime. They were countered by an awkwardly assembled unpainted Sorcerer‘s Spire made of D&L pieces that I felt was counterproductive in showing the products potential off. The staff member were polite and attentive but I felt I was not successful in adequately expressing my points.

I'm afraid I don't know exactly which employees you talked to, but it's possible they aren't involved with D&L at all or aren't involved in the design process, as we have a variety of different products. In general, I do recommend posting through our social media channels as you're a lot more likely to get heard there. If you're able to get a hold of the project manager or CEO during these events, they're also a lot more likely to listen. In other news, it seems like it's been decided that I'll be attending Essen next year :p

The first member of staff mentioned working in the stockroom I believe but he took me to another staff member whom he said was formerly a project leader… I believe for D&L but he also seemed quite proud of the He-Man product line as well as the overall stall layout, which was quite large. One of the biggest tabletop wargaming miniatures stalls at the show. As big as if not bigger than Games Workshop. My guess would be that he was the senior staff member present on Friday. He tolerated this muttonchoped American for quite some time and I would be surprised if he forgot the exchange.

I am not on social media, which is quite frustrating as I tended to get blank looks at Spiel when I mentioned The Lead Adventure Forum and Dakka Dakka to folks running various stalls.

Grognard
That said I'd love to have some floors, and scatter terrain for Kazumi. It will give me the final push to finish all the unpainted walls, and maybe magnetize the whole thing.

M.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
@Szymon_Archon - do you know maybe how much in retail M&M boxes will cost? I am interested in miniatures only (Necropolis and Fortress are my favourites), and in case that minis are not released separately, I would like to know if the cost for the box will justify buying it just for minis.

No idea, I'm afraid. It's possible the miniatures for the core game might be released separately, as I don't think they will be included in the regular box. I'm sure that more information will be available in the future, at least once we deliver Wave 1

The CEO recently explained some of what goes into making tools, and I wasn't aware of the fact that the tech for making sprues we have is so advanced, but also how lucky we are with the sheer amount of coincidences that even allowed us to get here...

At this point, I'm even more convinced that we're in a prime position to take over the miniature market, considering the fact that GW's process is much less efficient but they have the money to throw more people at the problem. All we need is just 1 miniature-related project that becomes massively popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say that it kind of sucks that we're in competition against GW, as I personally love the WH40k universe. I think my first introduction to the universe was my father explaining some of the rules and playing a small game with his Necron army (and occasionally taking me with him whenever he went to the local GW store), but growing up I loved playing RTS games like Warcraft 3 and WH40k: Dawn of War (both 1 and 2), and that's where I was properly exposed to the universe.

Szymon_Archon wrote:
The CEO recently explained some of what goes into making tools, and I wasn't aware of the fact that the tech for making sprues we have is so advanced, but also how lucky we are with the sheer amount of coincidences that even allowed us to get here...

At this point, I'm even more convinced that we're in a prime position to take over the miniature market, considering the fact that GW's process is much less efficient but they have the money to throw more people at the problem. All we need is just 1 miniature-related project that becomes massively popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say that it kind of sucks that we're in competition against GW, as I personally love the WH40k universe. I think my first introduction to the universe was my father explaining some of the rules and playing a small game with his Necron army (and occasionally taking me with him whenever he went to the local GW store), but growing up I loved playing RTS games like Warcraft 3 and WH40k: Dawn of War (both 1 and 2), and that's where I was properly exposed to the universe.

It might just be my general interest in diverse technologies, but is there anything more you could say about what makes the process different? If it's not a trade secret or the like of course.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

At this point, I'm even more convinced that we're in a prime position to take over the miniature market, considering the fact that GW's process is much less efficient but they have the money to throw more people at the problem. All we need is just 1 miniature-related project that becomes massively popular.

It's pretty absurd that you can do two dozen new tools on a 1 million euro kickstarter.

I expected you to have a mass battle game out by now, honestly. You clearly have the manufacturing capacity to overtake companies like Mantic in your sleep if you wanted to. Do a KS for a wargame, starting with 4 factions of 4 sprues each should be child's play. Make it 10-15mm so we can field dozens of tanks and you sell dozens of the same sprue. The rules I've seen coming from Archon have all been top tier too. Just need an evocative setting. Or maybe partner up with someone already doing good stuff... take a look at Full Spectrum Dominance. Just throwing it out there.

 Dolnikan wrote:

It might just be my general interest in diverse technologies, but is there anything more you could say about what makes the process different? If it's not a trade secret or the like of course.

I'm afraid it is a trade secret, we've actually had multiple companies attempt to steal information about the process, although I'm not naming names. I think our CEO also mentioned this during a podcast he was on (it was in Polish), a large competitor wanted to outright buy the company for a large amount, but the contract would be way too restrictive and we have the potential to grow much larger.

> I will say that it kind of sucks that we're in competition against GW,

Well, not in the generic fantasy department!

So far, most of the mini's are best suited for the "one cool mini" in the RPG department. Reaper and WizKids are the competition there, but they're selling premade soft-plastic, sold individually, for the non-painters. Since Archon is "sell by the sprue", they could sell sprues that just happen to have the mini's needed for popular WotC adventures. Frankly, it's a PITA to find miniatures from different companies for the NPCs and monsters in an encounter, although 5e moves towardds miniature-free "theatre of the mind". Archon, of course, has made their own with the Deuslair campaign, and they can look at their sales to see if that worked.

Then there're miniature skirmish games. Song of Blades and Heroes, and Five Leagues from the Borderlands are popular miniature skirmish games, or Archon could create one for their Deuslair line.

Wandered off a bit. When will D&L: Ruins come out?

To clarify, we're not in direct competition with GW (and we're not really trying to be), but it sucks that we won't really be able to ever work on 40k stuff. If we made 10% of what GW does in a year, we'd likely be seen as a threat by them.

What kind of NPCs and monsters are you looking for specifically?

As a sidenote, I recently made a post in the suggestions forum on our Discord server. Does the idea of specific encounters with some props sound appealing? Some examples included a caravan robbery with guards and bandits, or a graveyard themed set with Skeletons, Zombies, and Necromancers.

Szymon_Archon wrote:
To clarify, we're not in direct competition with GW (and we're not really trying to be), but it sucks that we won't really be able to ever work on 40k stuff. If we made 10% of what GW does in a year, we'd likely be seen as a threat by them.

What kind of NPCs and monsters are you looking for specifically?

As a sidenote, I recently made a post in the suggestions forum on our Discord server. Does the idea of specific encounters with some props sound appealing? Some examples included a caravan robbery with guards and bandits, or a graveyard themed set with Skeletons, Zombies, and Necromancers.

I do not think anyone can truly compete with GW. It has not only a long term foundation of loyal customers spanning what, three generations? It has brick and mortar stores internationally. It has has a multimedia presence. It has a thriving tournament, as well as casual, gaming community.

And so far, in my opinion, it does not play well with others.

It would take an incredibly dedicated, well disciplined long range plan to eventually build such a comprehensive brand.

That said, there is still room to make great products for customers and make enough money to feed the families of Archon Studio employees.

Renedra comes to mind as a closer competitor to what Archon is doing of late with the IP partnerships and contracted work. But perhaps an even closer competitor might be Wargames Atlantic or North Star Miniatures, although I do not have any idea about actual company values, liquid assets, share prices etc. I am just thinking about market foot print and general online reputation.

How Brexit and the Chinese trade disruptions may continue to affect the gaming market remains to be seen but Archon is in a position to capitalize on the EU market.

But really I think Archon needs to work on the “Archon Almost” issue. Finish making Woodhaven in plastic to concept art. Sort out the door issues. Sort out the Rampart floor and roof issues.

Do not get me wrong, I like the idea of a caravan robbery set. But I would like to see older product lines competed before new stuff. And I do not think I am alone.

And I think Archon would need to make some compelling world building for any game it tried to introduce into what I would consider a saturated market. It would need some serious hooks and would need sustainability or run the risk of being yet another fad game that comes and goes. At its core, love it or hate it, Grimdark is a core hook for Games Workshop. Archon would need something to make any game of its own stand out for itself.

I would love to see Starcide get some love.You have done some great concept art for the different races.

The Encounters idea sounds good.Smaller fixed themes.The Caravan robbery one with a few options for different Caravan types.

Graveyard theme could also include grave robbers.

CED1106 makes a good point of using the Deuslair range to do a skirmish game.It should have enough miniatures in the initial release to do some warbands.
Then expand the miniatures range from there for a larger scale game.Should be an easier way to expand the range and fan base.
Warcry,Necromunda and games like Frostgrave have done well this way.
Maybe having some themed factions with a good back story like you used to get in the early Citadel Journals and Compendiums.The Regiments of renown were always good to read and get an idea on each set.

AMA #32 - 12th October (new day and time)

- D&L Caves - SG up to 10 sprues, 150 props planned, no launch date yet need to get prepaints sorted first
- SSG - pick 1 theme per SSG as part of pledge - see image for details
- Add on concepts see pics - 1 sprue makes 1 quarter 4 sprues in set.
- D&L 5 - Evil Eye includes a movable eye ball, displacer comes with 2 riders - new rescaled one and the original small one
- No dice planned for D&L it would take it's own campaign
- MoTU dice sets planned, no new board for wave 7, new terrain and minis, Glimmer, Castapella, Frosta, Angella,, Bow, She-Ra
- HoMM production has started and will run to January 2024, first sets due in November (non Big Box or preshaded) for shipping in December, shipping runs up to February for Big Box and preshaded. Produced and prepacked in China,
- Titanomachy early WIPs shown - Human mini shown for scale is from Wolfenstein. (Wolfenstein license has expired)
- New Sci-Fi terrain will be part of Titanomachy rather than Rampart - should have terrain only option

Caves sound great but I don't know how affordable building a layout will be, looks like pieces will use a lot of sprue space.

> Does the idea of specific encounters with some props sound appealing?

Sounds great. At least for generic fantasy, review the D&D Starters and any popular adventures, and make encounter sets for them.

Also include at least one freebie scenario for a side quest. Have these scenarios link together to form a campaign. Then write more scenarios that use these encounter sets with your other Archon products (eg. Elven Woods). And, of course, create scenarios for miniature skirmish games that use the encounter sets.

I know Reaper had some encounter sets during their Bones KS, more as set pieces. Steamforged Games has their Epic Encounters, but I think they're overpriced. WizKids is doing some hybrid of 2D acrylic standees and 3D prepaints.

Also: Need "corner clips" so those dang wall corners don't separate and leave a gap between them! :/

Also: Those six trees in the "Elven Woods" and "Trees Pack" are the best generic fantasy terrain ever. Most often used and not too demanding to paint.

Also: I don't know why I have so many ritual-themed miniature skirmish game scenarios, but I have them. This will certainly come in handy. A "circle on the floor" piece also appreciated.

When it comes to encounters or other scenes like that, the main thing for me is that they have to be repeatable. Which is to say, you want to get multiple uses out of components. That's the advantage of a caravan set for instance. Caravan pieces can of course be used for, well, being part of the caravan in an ambush but they can also be used in a village square or places like that. More generic bandits also are things that almost always find a use (I mean, come on. Bandits are used all the time) and some guards can also be used as guards in other settings or as mercenaries or other sorts of warriors. Or even as more bandits for that matter. The one request I would have for such a set would be to not have drivers and the like attached to vehicles because they tend to limit it more.

A few other ideas that quickly come to mind that can be used on multiple occasions:
1) A campsite with things like a campfire, a few tents, bedrolls, things like that. It could be used as the party's camp that's being attacked in the night (so there would have to be suitable baddies for that) but could, with a few different components, also be used as the encampment of those baddies. You could for instance have different pieces of luggage, a mule, a simple weapons rack, and things like that.

2) Regular peasants. I know, this is a huge weak spot of mine, but I love having civilians and have way too many models for them already. That said, they can be very useful. You could for instance have them as prisoners or as the terrified villagers who face an attack by some sort of monster. This works best with a slaving species as the baddies and although I can't speak for others, it would be amazing to have the peasants not be predominantly human. Everyone has human civilians, but where are my dwarfs, halflings, and the like?

3) This one is a little different, but how about different traps and their users? So you would have a bunch of kobolds (who love traps) and a bunch of traps that can fit into the regular layouts. This would range from a pit trap, rolling boulder, and the like to arrow launchers in the walls, those swinging blades, and tons of others that can add a lot to encounters. I for one always liked combining traps with combat elements to make them more of a challenge.

 Dolnikan wrote:
When it comes to encounters or other scenes like that, the main thing for me is that they have to be repeatable. Which is to say, you want to get multiple uses out of components. That's the advantage of a caravan set for instance. Caravan pieces can of course be used for, well, being part of the caravan in an ambush but they can also be used in a village square or places like that. More generic bandits also are things that almost always find a use (I mean, come on. Bandits are used all the time) and some guards can also be used as guards in other settings or as mercenaries or other sorts of warriors. Or even as more bandits for that matter. The one request I would have for such a set would be to not have drivers and the like attached to vehicles because they tend to limit it more.

A few other ideas that quickly come to mind that can be used on multiple occasions:
1) A campsite with things like a campfire, a few tents, bedrolls, things like that. It could be used as the party's camp that's being attacked in the night (so there would have to be suitable baddies for that) but could, with a few different components, also be used as the encampment of those baddies. You could for instance have different pieces of luggage, a mule, a simple weapons rack, and things like that.

2) Regular peasants. I know, this is a huge weak spot of mine, but I love having civilians and have way too many models for them already. That said, they can be very useful. You could for instance have them as prisoners or as the terrified villagers who face an attack by some sort of monster. This works best with a slaving species as the baddies and although I can't speak for others, it would be amazing to have the peasants not be predominantly human. Everyone has human civilians, but where are my dwarfs, halflings, and the like?

3) This one is a little different, but how about different traps and their users? So you would have a bunch of kobolds (who love traps) and a bunch of traps that can fit into the regular layouts. This would range from a pit trap, rolling boulder, and the like to arrow launchers in the walls, those swinging blades, and tons of others that can add a lot to encounters. I for one always liked combining traps with combat elements to make them more of a challenge.

Dolnikan, those are some excellent points.

The suggestion to have the wagon drivers separate is a particularly good one.

In my opinion the concept of making everything as multipurpose as possible is really key in convincing people to make what would be for them a very cost effective purchase. Getting an aesthetic that is generic enough to be multipurpose but not so bland as to be boring is quite the challenge. Modular options to decorate pieces to the desire of the customer may be part of the solution.

Non-human civilians would be nice. Two poses for each figure would be nice. One peaceful, one violent. So a farmer working the field or talking to someone and then the sams figure brandishing a torch and pitchfork. Right now I am using Fireforge Rabble for that kind of thing but they are on the large side and angry mobs look better with more diversity, especially medieval fantasy mobs.

Scale is a tricky issue. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. This has come up repeatedly with D&L already. Terrain needs to be designed big enough to take into account the bases for miniatures not just the height of the figures.

ced1106 wrote:

Also: Those six trees in the "Elven Woods" and "Trees Pack" are the best generic fantasy terrain ever. Most often used and not too demanding to paint.

Agreed. They both are the best terrain from Archon so far. Useful in any setting.

Dolnikan wrote:When it comes to encounters or other scenes like that, the main thing for me is that they have to be repeatable. Which is to say, you want to get multiple uses out of components. That's the advantage of a caravan set for instance. Caravan pieces can of course be used for, well, being part of the caravan in an ambush but they can also be used in a village square or places like that. More generic bandits also are things that almost always find a use (I mean, come on. Bandits are used all the time) and some guards can also be used as guards in other settings or as mercenaries or other sorts of warriors. Or even as more bandits for that matter. The one request I would have for such a set would be to not have drivers and the like attached to vehicles because they tend to limit it more.

This!

A campsite with things like a campfire, a few tents, bedrolls, things like that. It could be used as the party's camp that's being attacked in the night (so there would have to be suitable baddies for that) but could, with a few different components, also be used as the encampment of those baddies. You could for instance have different pieces of luggage, a mule, a simple weapons rack, and things like that.

Most of this is in Elven Woods kit - you get 2 tents, campfire, 2 beds etc. camp thing there.

Yes, it was my desire to have the caravan traders have a leg variant where you can either make them so they ride the caravan, or they just stand normally.

As for everyone asking for a wargame, we've actually already announced that we're working on one in collaboration with Andy Chambers and Jervis Johnson, but due to various unfortunate circumstances, the project has been put on the backburner for now. We might have more information about it in a month.

Other than that, we're still working on Titanomachy but we also had that teaser in the last livestream. In addition to that, we also have 1 other planned project, but I don't think I'm allowed to mention what it is because we haven't announced it anywhere yet.

I have a different question, did anyone here ever manage to play the 2nd Edition of Mutant Chronicles Warzone Resurrection? From what I can tell, the game was really liked but it never reached a wider audience.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

I have a different question, did anyone here ever manage to play the 2nd Edition of Mutant Chronicles Warzone Resurrection? From what I can tell, the game was really liked but it never reached a wider audience.

I rage quit (I was extremely unhappy with WZ being turned into some weird amalgam of 40k, starcraft, whatever s-f. Wolfsbanes on giant wolves and tractors was the final nail in the ''can't stand it'' coffin, which prevented me from ever playing the 2nd edition.) during 1st ed so never played the second but from the read I can tell that it was a definite improvement over 1st when it comes to rules.

Dang, ok. I was not here during this time so I wanted to get people's opinion on it, and why it didn't perform.

Szymon_Archon wrote:
and why it didn't perform.

Part of it could be people like me = veterans of 1st,2nd, UWZ editions of WZ, and total MC fanatics, who as I were unhappy. WZR failed with them (majority of potential sales, at least for the first years of WZR's life), and in its new form was not enough to attract casual gamers.

For me, I just tune out any game that relies on boutique resin models and pricing. Also, wasn't Prodos at the time mostly known as "the people who stole all the money from AvP kickstarter?"

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Also, wasn't Prodos at the time mostly known as "the people who stole all the money from AvP kickstarter?"

I wish it was that simple.

To be clear, we still ended up delivering everything, with only the 50 backers who didn't close their pledge not getting what they paid for. A full explanation was pretty recently given by our CEO on a podcast, but unfortunately, the entire thing is in Polish.

https://www.youtube.com/live/md7oXZKDhh0?feature=shared&t=1051

Basically, there was a massive problem with approvals as 20th Century Fox was in the middle of being acquired by Disney, and the person responsible for approvals kept changing. One time, one of them asked what was with the spiders in the box. It turns out he was talking about facehuggers. I'd say it's a pretty funny story looking at it retrospectively, but kind of tragic too.