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@Kilkrazy

None of those are fun beats. We could put Luke losing his hand on Bespin on that list. It isn't fun. But ESB does have fun, such as Han's daring asteroid belt piloting. Not to mention the tender if awkward romance between Leia and Han. And the entire sequence on Dagobah is about wonder and awe. Although Yoda is wise, he is also charming and delightful. Just listen to the score for these parts of ESB:

 Earth127 wrote:
You're wrong Manchu, clearly me and KillKrazy had a good time so don't go around making blanket statements about everyone.

I'm not talking about audience members. I'm talking about the characters in the film.

 Earth127 wrote:
Stick to less storylines.

Tell it to Rian "pointless plot digression" Johnson.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I disagree.

Luke conquers his demons, fights a legendary duel and is re-united with The Force.
Rey finds her true path.
Finn finds his courage.
Rose finds love.
Poe learns a bit of responsibility.
Leia sees the Rebellion escape the jaws of death.

It's not a dance party, to be sure, but it's the middle of a trilogy with the structure that the heroes have to take some knocks in order to rise again in the final part. It's not as if things were a three ring circus at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

I'll give you Luke.
Rey - not so sure about - more torn about her connection to Ben, but of course the Director went with the easy story (as usual) rather than what happens if she is able to turn him away from dark side.
Finn - Nope capering comic relief with a love sick loony forcing her attentions on him
Rose - does she - or just force herself on confused guy she fancies
Poe - learns that he was following total idiots and is now stuck with the 20 survivors against a hostile galaxy
Leia - sees her resistance movement slaughtered in front of her eyes and the last remenants fleeing before the all conquering FO - dies knowing that no cares.

Clearly me and KillKrazy had a good time so don't go around making blanket statements about everyone.

Clearly lots of us didn't - same applies.

But I'm not saying everyone. I am fully aware there a are a lot of people that don't like TLJ. For reasons of waying validity.

Also Leia isn't dead yet.

 Manchu wrote:
@Kilkrazy

None of those are fun beats. We could put Luke losing his hand on Bespin on that list. It isn't fun. But ESB does have fun, such as Han's daring asteroid belt piloting. Not to mention the tender if awkward romance between Leia and Han. And the entire sequence on Dagobah is about wonder and awe. Although Yoda is wise, he is also charming and delightful. Just listen to the score for these parts of ESB:

Spoiler:

 Earth127 wrote:
You're wrong Manchu, clearly me and KillKrazy had a good time so don't go around making blanket statements about everyone.

I'm not talking about audience members. I'm talking about the characters in the film.

 Earth127 wrote:
Stick to less storylines.

Tell it to Rian "pointless plot digression" Johnson.

In TLJ we've got Poe versus Hux and the dreadnaught. We've got the Bight Casino breakout. We've got Rose awkwardly declaring her love.

Conversely the entire sequence on Dagobah can be seen as about mucking around in a miserable swamp, while Luke's island is an astonishing visual feast peopled with quirky creatures.

Also my 2 most constant criticism of TLJ are

1)Why was the opening battle a dumb-off
2)Canto Bight

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In TLJ we've got Poe versus Hux. We've got the Bight Casino breakout. We've got Rose awkwardly declaring her love.

Beginning a SW film with a dumb crank call is maximum cringe. I didn't even understand what was happening at first. When it dawned on me that this was supposed to be funny I could feel my heart sink. (Remember, I walked into the theater thinking the movie would be at least as good as TFA.) What followed was a parade of steadily more gauche moments. By the time Rose Tico sexually harasses (or should that be assaults?) Finn near the end, I was well and truly flabbergasted. To call either moment fun beggars belief. I grant that BB-8's antics at the casino were meant to be light-hearted and he is a cute little droid. But nothing he does in TLJ has even a fraction of the charm of when he exchanges thumbs ups with Finn in TFA. Plus you are offering one-off gags in exchange for the major plot ideas I listed from ESB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Conversely the entire sequence on Dagobah can be seen as about mucking around in a miserable swamp

That's the point. Dagobah is not some kind of beautiful scenic spot. It is a miserable swamp. Likewise, Yoda is not a 'great warrior' in the conventional sense Luke expects; rather, he is a tiny green muppet. Luke isn't impressed by either the swamp or the little green guy. Yet this is the great Jedi master, this is his dojo, where the mysteries of the Force unfold before the young student. The mundane is revealed to be mystical.

Oh god, that crank call. I remember sitting there with the popcorn thinking....uh...this isn't particulary funny...and it's killing the tension. It made me immediately think of the worst prequel era nonsense. That's the thing about TLJ. It's a horrible blend of over the top attempts at cheap humor mixed with miserable subverting of what star wars is. I knew we said after TFA that we needed something new and different, but come on.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I disagree.

Luke conquers his demons, fights a legendary duel and is re-united with The Force.
Rey finds her true path.
Finn finds his courage. Rose finds love.
Poe learns a bit of responsibility.
Leia sees the Rebellion escape the jaws of death.

It's not a dance party, to be sure, but it's the middle of a trilogy with the structure that the heroes have to take some knocks in order to rise again in the final part. It's not as if things were a three ring circus at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

I disagree.

Rey finds what? she finds the books, is her path to be a thief?
Finn, tries to save the rebellion and decides to stand up for a cause that he finnaly feels a part of, then gets denied his grand act of heroism by his stalker.
Rose finds love the same way every stalker finds love.
Poe learns if you disobey orders, and start a mutiny you get ahead in the rebellion, because there are no consequences.
Leia sees the rebellion crushed as it dies like her brother.

It's going to have to be an amazing 9th movie to wrap up this trilogy in any sort of meaningful way. Judging from the first two, all I can imagine is:

Me: I want a good ending
JJ channeling luke: It's not going to end the way you think
Me: well then if I want a good ending, and it's not going to end that way, we can only conclude it's going to be a bad ending.

Also It has been tentatively confirmed that there is going to be a several year timeskip between 8 and 9.

Maybe so the 3 slave kids who actualy believe in the rebellion can join the other 20 people on their one ship and maybe some of them toy creatures from Luke Hidden Island of Sulking.

But hey at least this Johnson guy is not directing so it can't get worse - can it?

Oh and I read somewhere that the giant FO ship is only damaged.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Oh god, that crank call. I remember sitting there with the popcorn thinking....uh...this isn't particulary funny...and it's killing the tension. It made me immediately think of the worst prequel era nonsense. That's the thing about TLJ. It's a horrible blend of over the top attempts at cheap humor mixed with miserable subverting of what star wars is. I knew we said after TFA that we needed something new and different, but come on.

I loved it. Do did my family. I actually laughed.

Just more proof that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 Manchu wrote:
Beginning a SW film with a dumb crank call is maximum cringe.

Especially when the film ends with that character becoming the leader of The Resistance.

Everyone that's 'new' in the new movies seems less like a 'Star Wars' character and more like some teenage hipsters sarcastically roleplaying hastily-made Star Wars characters.

Something I've just noticed we spent most of this thread discussing a side plot of a side plot. Poe's strory is the tertiary one behind Rey's first and Finn's second.

 Earth127 wrote:
Something I've just noticed we spent most of this thread discussing a side plot of a side plot. Poe's strory is the tertiary one behind Rey's first and Finn's second.

That shows just how gripping her story (or lack of) is haha

TLJ had fun. Back to back lightsabers against the praetorian guard was a great sequence.


And it was funny when the Porgs were giving Chewie the sad eyes for not sharing his meal.

I love that Rose is a stalker who forced herself on Finn, but Han Solo wasn't being a creep for cornering women on the falcon and forcing himself on them.

 Lance845 wrote:
I love that Rose is a stalker who forced herself on Finn, but Han Solo wasn't being a creep for cornering women on the falcon and forcing himself on them.

He was being a creep, who said he wasn't? both can be considered sexual assault.

Han is a little sleazy. Rose pretty much hypes out as soon as she realises who Finn is, then tazes him and starts going all creepy-crazy when she thinks he may be any less than perfect.
Then there is the whole sticking right next to him theme, and the ramming him out of the air when he was going to do something important (for the first time in the film). Oh, and forcing herself on him then.
Han acted sleazy, but had style and acted normal. From start to finish Rose acted like a deranged stalker.

The several year back between this and episode 9 will be to allow the writers to avoid having to explain how exactly the rebellion recovered from essentially being wiped out.
Also, how was that ship "only damaged"? It should be atoms, as should the solar system.

The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

sirlynchmob wrote:

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

One can but hope.

Hey, hold on a minute, if L3 is a mockery of the SJW's, is rose just a mockery of the fans. falling in love with their hero's and acting like stalkers, throwing out proposals when they first see their hero in person? Did Rose take nudes of finn and cut his hair while he was out?

sirlynchmob wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

How many movies have unlikely romances that are sparked between two characters over the course of an adventure that takes place over a brief period of time? Kind of a lot. How many movies are there that decide to have a main character suddenly kiss another during an emotional moment? A good amount there too, with a lot of overlap from the previous question. The the belief that Rose's kiss equals Sexual Assault is overreacting to a common event in many movies. The only major difference is that we don't know how he feels about it or even if he knows how to feel about it because he's more concerned that she might be dying at the moment. He could have said "bullet dodged" and left her there but instead he at least dragged her back and is later shown having some concern for her in the Falcon, so that's something. At what point would Finn have even gotten a chance to lay down that a boundary had been crossed. Now had Rose started kissing him after she had stunned him, then that is clearly sexual assault. Yes, it was a forced, awkward, and somewhat painful addition to the story but to call it sexual assault means that there are scores of movies just as bad.

Also Leia kisses Luke, right before swinging over a massive gap in the Death Star, shortly after having just met him and taking over his rescue. She kisses him again to obviously get spite Han in ESB.

Skaorn wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

How many movies have unlikely romances that are sparked between two characters over the course of an adventure that takes place over a brief period of time? Kind of a lot. How many movies are there that decide to have a main character suddenly kiss another during an emotional moment? A good amount there too, with a lot of overlap from the previous question. The the belief that Rose's kiss equals Sexual Assault is overreacting to a common event in many movies. The only major difference is that we don't know how he feels about it or even if he knows how to feel about it because he's more concerned that she might be dying at the moment. He could have said "bullet dodged" and left her there but instead he at least dragged her back and is later shown having some concern for her in the Falcon, so that's something. At what point would Finn have even gotten a chance to lay down that a boundary had been crossed. Now had Rose started kissing him after she had stunned him, then that is clearly sexual assault. Yes, it was a forced, awkward, and somewhat painful addition to the story but to call it sexual assault means that there are scores of movies just as bad.

Also Leia kisses Luke, right before swinging over a massive gap in the Death Star, shortly after having just met him and taking over his rescue. She kisses him again to obviously get spite Han in ESB.

Yup. This is another one of those things where, for whatever reason, people are giving the female characters in this movie gak for being just like every other character they have cheered on for years.

Skaorn wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

How many movies have unlikely romances that are sparked between two characters over the course of an adventure that takes place over a brief period of time? Kind of a lot. How many movies are there that decide to have a main character suddenly kiss another during an emotional moment? A good amount there too, with a lot of overlap from the previous question. The the belief that Rose's kiss equals Sexual Assault is overreacting to a common event in many movies. The only major difference is that we don't know how he feels about it or even if he knows how to feel about it because he's more concerned that she might be dying at the moment. He could have said "bullet dodged" and left her there but instead he at least dragged her back and is later shown having some concern for her in the Falcon, so that's something. At what point would Finn have even gotten a chance to lay down that a boundary had been crossed. Now had Rose started kissing him after she had stunned him, then that is clearly sexual assault. Yes, it was a forced, awkward, and somewhat painful addition to the story but to call it sexual assault means that there are scores of movies just as bad.

Also Leia kisses Luke, right before swinging over a massive gap in the Death Star, shortly after having just met him and taking over his rescue. She kisses him again to obviously get spite Han in ESB.

It's also how every stalker movie starts. so in 9 expect to see fin reject rose for rey, rose get's psycho about it and kills rey, tormenting fin until fin has to kill rose. Because it's not going to end the way we think it will, so obviously they're setting up for a fetal attraction ending.

forced and awkward the start of any great love story? no, the start of every stalker movie? yep. And I agree there are scores of movies just as bad.

@lance845 so you're condoning nonconsenual kissing? tsk tsk

Rose is like the in universe equivalent of a Tumblr fan girl.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Do you want it to be rollicking?

Well, since you define Star Wars as rollicking, then yes, I would expect a Star Wars main sequence movie to be rollicking. Not frollicking, not moping, and DEFINITELY not subverting everything in sight for the troll-LOLZ.

 Lance845 wrote:

Skaorn wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

How many movies have unlikely romances that are sparked between two characters over the course of an adventure that takes place over a brief period of time? Kind of a lot. How many movies are there that decide to have a main character suddenly kiss another during an emotional moment? A good amount there too, with a lot of overlap from the previous question. The the belief that Rose's kiss equals Sexual Assault is overreacting to a common event in many movies. The only major difference is that we don't know how he feels about it or even if he knows how to feel about it because he's more concerned that she might be dying at the moment. He could have said "bullet dodged" and left her there but instead he at least dragged her back and is later shown having some concern for her in the Falcon, so that's something. At what point would Finn have even gotten a chance to lay down that a boundary had been crossed. Now had Rose started kissing him after she had stunned him, then that is clearly sexual assault. Yes, it was a forced, awkward, and somewhat painful addition to the story but to call it sexual assault means that there are scores of movies just as bad.

Also Leia kisses Luke, right before swinging over a massive gap in the Death Star, shortly after having just met him and taking over his rescue. She kisses him again to obviously get spite Han in ESB.

Yup. This is another one of those things where, for whatever reason, people are giving the female characters in this movie gak for being just like every other character they have cheered on for years.

Or you know... we’re taking the piss out of an awkward moment, just like we’ve taken the piss out off all the other awkward moments in other movies for years, ever seen James Bond? All the cringy moments through those movies that people like mocking, or Harry Potter ...

 Mr Morden wrote:

Perhaps instead of a pointless excursion to Casio World, the pair of idiots could have found that it was hosting the leaders of conquered worlds being wined and dined by the FO, selling out their people.

Ooh, that would have been a good twist! Way better than 'save the critters, leave the slave kids'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
@Kilkrazy

None of those are fun beats. We could put Luke losing his hand on Bespin on that list. It isn't fun. But ESB does have fun, such as Han's daring asteroid belt piloting. Not to mention the tender if awkward romance between Leia and Han. And the entire sequence on Dagobah is about wonder and awe. Although Yoda is wise, he is also charming and delightful. Just listen to the score for these parts of ESB:

Spoiler:

 Earth127 wrote:
You're wrong Manchu, clearly me and KillKrazy had a good time so don't go around making blanket statements about everyone.

I'm not talking about audience members. I'm talking about the characters in the film.

 Earth127 wrote:
Stick to less storylines.

Tell it to Rian "pointless plot digression" Johnson.

In TLJ we've got Poe versus Hux and the dreadnaught. We've got the Bight Casino breakout. We've got Rose awkwardly declaring her love.

Conversely the entire sequence on Dagobah can be seen as about mucking around in a miserable swamp, while Luke's island is an astonishing visual feast peopled with quirky creatures.

Poe and Hux isn't funny, it's cringeworthy.

Canto Bight breakout is pointless and unnecessary; all they had to do was park their ship in the tall grass on top of the plateau instead of on the beach - or better yet, why not at the spaceport - and everything goes smoothly. It's also rather boring after the Trench Run, Pod Racing, and coming out of hyperspace within a planetary shield.

And sexual assault is funny? Imagine if it had been Finn (or better yet Poe) forcing that kiss on Rose and tell me it's still funny.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Skaorn wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
The whole Rose sexually assaults Finn is kind of like you coming up to me, giving me what you think is a friendly punch in the arm, and me calling the cops and trying to get you arrested for assault. Technically I'm right but most people would expect a "no, not cool" conversation and a similar physical follow up from you before thinking calling the cops wouldn't be an overreaction on my part.

Keep in mind that Leia does the whole surprise kiss thing twice on Luke, just off the top of my head. The surprise kiss gets a lot of use in movies. Generally, the other person's reaction tells us if they crossed line. In the case of Rose kissing Finn though, I think the whole "do I like this yes/no" thought is being completely overshadowed by the "oh crap, my friend might be dying". Awkward conversations can usually wait to see if the other person lives.

han, luke and leia also had spent a large amount of time together. however much time passed between 4 & 5 before the kissing started. it was clear they all loved each other. Han was a dick though stepping in between luke and leia, and not even bothering to ask luke if he could date his sister.

Fin just met Rose that day, he goes off with her, spends a few hours with her in a casino while she lamenting the fate of those who live at a casino, then she risks the lives of the entire rebellion by stopping fin from taking out the big gun and declares her love for fin and kisses him. He just met that crazy girl who hit him with a cattle prod and did not share her feelings, he still loves ray and only went off with rose because he thought doing so would save ray. Rose is clearly a stalker.

As rose has not yet been signed for 9, we can assume she died.

How many movies have unlikely romances that are sparked between two characters over the course of an adventure that takes place over a brief period of time? Kind of a lot. How many movies are there that decide to have a main character suddenly kiss another during an emotional moment? A good amount there too, with a lot of overlap from the previous question. The the belief that Rose's kiss equals Sexual Assault is overreacting to a common event in many movies. The only major difference is that we don't know how he feels about it or even if he knows how to feel about it because he's more concerned that she might be dying at the moment. He could have said "bullet dodged" and left her there but instead he at least dragged her back and is later shown having some concern for her in the Falcon, so that's something. At what point would Finn have even gotten a chance to lay down that a boundary had been crossed. Now had Rose started kissing him after she had stunned him, then that is clearly sexual assault. Yes, it was a forced, awkward, and somewhat painful addition to the story but to call it sexual assault means that there are scores of movies just as bad.

Also Leia kisses Luke, right before swinging over a massive gap in the Death Star, shortly after having just met him and taking over his rescue. She kisses him again to obviously get spite Han in ESB.

Yup. This is another one of those things where, for whatever reason, people are giving the female characters in this movie gak for being just like every other character they have cheered on for years.

Correction. For being an UNLIKEABLE character, more than anything else.

Which is why we're so down on pretty much the whole movie.

 Lance845 wrote:
Yup. This is another one of those things where, for whatever reason, people are giving the female characters in this movie gak for being just like every other character they have cheered on for years.

"For whatever reason"

I'd love to hear some of your theories on the matter.

Demonstrably, Rey is not like Luke. People tore into Jar-Jar far worse than Rose. People also slammed Hayden Christensen as Anakin and a lot about that character's progression through the prequels. Others have cited many complaints about a multitude of characters, up to and including all the male characters in the newer movies.

So please, along with your theory about 'why', I'd love to see why you only see very specific complaints people have.