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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Here is a thread pre-stunk for all your The Last Jedi-related thread-stinking needs. Please keep the Solo thread clean. Plop all your Holdo observations here, where they can be quarantined. Thank you.


I'll start off: what is the deal with starcruiser food?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 19:31:36


   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I mean, who are these people?

We're almost halfway through the year and TLJ remains just as controversial as when it was released this past December. Personally, TLJ utterly crushed whatever renewed interest in Star Wars that The Force Awakens inspired in me. In terms of acting and dialogue, TLJ is nowhere near as laughably incompetent as Lucas's prequels. At the same time, however, TLJ isn't as interesting as any of the prequels, visually or thematically. No less entrenched in the mythology (if not the spirit) of the OT than TFA, TLJ nonetheless manages to hit every possible wrong note from misinterpreting classic characters to completely misusing new ones. TLJ rightfully joins the ranks of such notorious failures as The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. While I am loath to conclude it is worse than either of those, it's certianly no better.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I think I've come to terms with it, much like GW, MtG and most mainstream comics I've conceded I'm not the target audience anymore, no point in becoming engrumpled, just move on and take my spending elsewhere

Although I fully reserve the right to point and laugh at KK the next time she's say something so silly even The Donald would be stunned

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Hated the film - felt I had wasted my time and money in going to the cinema,

IMO Its not that it is a bad "Star Wars" film but that it is a BAD film in general, what makes it worse is critics (and others) repeatedly and somehow claiming it is visionary, intelligent or clever and then on the counter punch claiming that anyone who disagrees is a racist/Sexist pig and/or Rapid star Wars fan who can't stand change.

My problems were:

The Plot (or lack of) - virtually nothing made any sense both internally or as part oft eh general film background, people just wondered into scenes and did stuff for no reason other than that was what they were told to do and its not subtle - its crowbarred in to the plot. Again and Again.
The Pace (or lack of) - the sheer mind numbing tedium of the "chase" where ships crawl across a vaguely pretty background - again and again and a occasionally one shoots a gun, there is no sense of drama or indeed hurry in anyone - the First Order pilots just sit in their fights in the ships and the rest of them probably play cards. The Ship of Fools crew led by incompetents and a whole load of poor plot reasons do nothing either.
Characters (or lack of) - nothing is really explored, people constantly do stupid things for stupid reasons and are called hero's and then someone else does the same thing and is a villain - its shockingly bad - lastly almost everyone is unlikeable in what should be a fun family film.
The Reviews: Fundamentally dishonest which either points to corruption or coercion or a mixture of both.

The worst film I have seen on any medium in years.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Aside from Luke dying and a few wtf moments (like Luke not using the green lightsaber at the end), I really enjoyed the movie.
There are some flaws, but overall the movie is about learning from your mistakes, so the characters have to make them to learn from them.

Also, this is the middle part of the trilogy, so some things might get explained in ep IX, so I'm holding final judgment on TLJ until then.

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Galef wrote:
Aside from Luke dying and a few wtf moments (like Luke not using the green lightsaber at the end), I really enjoyed the movie.
There are some flaws, but overall the movie is about learning from your mistakes, so the characters have to make them to learn from them.

Also, this is the middle part of the trilogy, so some things might get explained in ep IX, so I'm holding final judgment on TLJ until then.


See that's the bit I don't get, now mistakes are fine. But people did the exact same thing and one is a idiot and one is a hero - is suicide to save your friends heroic or stupid - the film didn't know. so its fine to hyperspace ram a giant ship but definitely not a giant gun. hmm ok that's ......dumb.

The very few rebels who survived their idiot leaders on the Ship of Fools might figure its a mistake to follow and I guess same with the First Order but I doubt it.

but hey some weird horses got released from their cages for a couple of hours before being shot or recaptured so that's a major rebel victory right?

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







I just don't get why they over writ the really bad EU to make an even worse even new canon. Imagine a film series based upon Wraith Squadron filmed like 633Sqdr updated for modern graphics updated for SW. How epic would that be.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

After the less than box office success (By Star Wars standards) of TLJ, is Rian Johnson still slated to get his own Star Wars Trilogy where he can subvert all expectations to his own delight.... or has that been canned or in danger at this point?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Easy E wrote:
After the less than box office success (By Star Wars standards) of TLJ, is Rian Johnson still slated to get his own Star Wars Trilogy where he can subvert all expectations to his own delight.... or has that been canned or in danger at this point?


Hopefully not - but probably still carry on making crap.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 ingtaer wrote:
I just don't get why they over writ the really bad EU to make an even worse even new canon. Imagine a film series based upon Wraith Squadron filmed like 633Sqdr updated for modern graphics updated for SW. How epic would that be.



Or the thrawn trilogy that shows another side to the imperials, at this point I’m writing off Disney wars as pure fan fiction and the EU as bad as it was at times, the true sequels, Disney can claim they are not canon anymore but until they produce something equal in quality, I’m ignoring them.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





I don't know, I thought Kylo Ren looked pretty good in it...

NSFW

Spoiler:





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 14:54:16


Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Haha, I guess that is the "male gaze" version of him in TLJ, that gave Rey a girl boner.

   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Remember guys, any complaints you have about movie making problems are just pedantry, and your real problem is that you secretly, or not secretly, hate women.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Remember guys, any complaints you have about movie making problems are just pedantry, and your real problem is that you secretly, or not secretly, hate women.


Ah yes I had forgotten that one - weird how it only manifests to this gem of the filmmaking art.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Not only this gem, but also Sony's Ghostbusters remake. And probably this will be a go to countermarketing strategy going forward.

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Manchu wrote:
Not only this gem, but also Sony's Ghostbusters remake. And probably this will be a go to countermarketing strategy going forward.


Very effective I expect - especially for those of us who only think we know why we didn't like a film and actually we are unaware of the "true" reason - which of course the more enlightened amongst do know but can't tell us for...reasons.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Remember guys, any complaints you have about movie making problems are just pedantry, and your real problem is that you secretly, or not secretly, hate women.


Nope just KK but as per playground rules she started it (and maybe ones who can't act beyond essentially a female David Mitchell)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:21:50


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I had my issues when I first saw TLJ, but they've largely fallen aside as I've rewatched it. There are still parts I think the movie is trying too hard to be unappealing, there's a couple of things I'd have rather seen cut for other things or in general to give it a shorter runtime, but taken on the whole it might be bubbling up towards my favorite of the films.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





I'm still curious about Rose.. I mean, not counting any of the actual plotlines..

But was she planted to prevent people from running away because of her dedication to the cause? Does the Resistance now need Commissars to keep people from retreating from certain death with a powerful taser that's strong enough to not only slam people into walls to knock them unconscious, but keep them utterly paralyzed from the neck down while she finds a cart to drag them off to brig.

Does she have rank to brig people? Because at this point it seems like the resistance is now press ganging people to continue fighting for them at this point given such actions.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:22:34


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm still curious about Rose.. I mean, not counting any of the actual plotlines..

But was she planted to prevent people from running away because of her dedication to the cause? Does the Resistance now need Commissars to keep people from retreating from certain death with a powerful taser that's strong enough to not only slam people into walls to knock them unconscious, but keep them utterly paralyzed from the neck down while she finds a cart to drag them off to brig.

Does she have rank to brig people? Because at this point it seems like the resistance is now press ganging people to continue fighting for them at this point given such actions.


Its clear that like some any other scenes, the director and team didn't think about anything other than the scene I don't think - remember they are all stuck on the ship with no way to escape - err except the things they can use to escape the ship......right. Maybe the people in the brig had figured out that the command crew were so unbelievably incompetent and thought - screw this.

I think they said something about people trying to get away and she was there to stop them - probably because she was as idiotic as the rest of the command crew.

The republic military who turned into the resistance / rebels in one day (yeah think about that and what it says about the people in it) probably had some form of rank structure but the ship of fools did not seem to know what it was or in fact who anyone was, seriously they made the crew and scientists aboard the Prometheus look good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 16:26:23


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Resistance members appear to be more or less paid soldiers and not just volunteers. I don't think any military organization is particularly cool with people just leaving when they don't feel like fighting anymore, particularly if they do so by stealing pods for themselves designed to let multiple people escape.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





A white woman.
A black male.
A hispanic male.
A woman of asian decent.

The bad guys are all white of course.

By accident? Of course not.

I am sure this satisfies many of those who have demands for more diversity, but not me. I don't see Native American characters. Or Desi. Where are those? Why do we have to wait? I mean its 2018. Do all lead characters have to be white? Even if a woman? Rey is probably going to turn out to be more powerful than Vader and Luke combined. Why does a character like that have to be white? I am so sick of this. Actually, we aren't even supposed to use race as a reference anymore. To be PC, we need to use ethnicity. And there are over 5,000 different ethnic groups. I am so sick of not only making the white people be the leaders and salvation for the other ethnic groups in the universe, but the pandering that goes on for those other ethnicities to make them feel included. TLF is one big white feminist film. All the major decision makers in the rebellion are white and female. One big white girls club. The males are either cowardly or insubordinate. Why can't there be a strong male of Zambo ethnicity? Or a young transgender apprentice of Welsh decent, who is heavy on the accent, but also a courageous fighter and is funny and rarely fails? I am just so tired of this crap. Who are these films made for? Racist and sexist fans? These movies are released globally! Its about time they represent everyone!

I WANT MORE INCLUSION! LESS ALIENS AND MORE SAMOANS!
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I think at the very core of the issue was that the people who made the film were all very focused on filmmaker concerns and paid almost no attention to any of the other parts necessary for a good story. Film critics, educated in all the film making arts, judge the film by their concerns, the same aspects of film making that RJ and crew actually cared about, so it gives an experience that hits all their buttons. For anyone who wanted anything else out of the film, like plot, consistency, attention to non-cinematic details, world building, or even characterization, the movie doesn't bother to cater to them, and they get an unpleasant experience.

Critics may rave about use of color, but other movie goers just want to know why the characters keep doing the stupid things they are doing.

   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 LunarSol wrote:
Resistance members appear to be more or less paid soldiers and not just volunteers. I don't think any military organization is particularly cool with people just leaving when they don't feel like fighting anymore, particularly if they do so by stealing pods for themselves designed to let multiple people escape.

I'm not necessarily sure many of them were paid soldiers given that the Resistance is made up of individuals who weren't associated with a primary government. The primary government in TFA denied them and thus Leia had to round up people to work for her in order to fight the First Order. And given that in TLJ many planets denied them as well it seems like they were just made up of individuals for the cause rather then being actual soldiers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 17:03:39


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
plot, consistency, attention to non-cinematic details, world building, or even characterization
Surely Roger Ebert wasn't the only critic who considered these elements to be important?
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm not necessarily sure many of them were paid soldiers given that the Resistance is made up of individuals who weren't associated with a primary government.
From what I understand (this wasn't explained in the movies, obviously) the Resistance is made up of people who support the Republic but don't think the Republic takes the threat of the First Order seriously enough. They seem unlikely to be anything other than volunteers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 17:30:43


   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm

SW TLJ made $1.3 billion by April 19th. Is that particularly bad?

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Manchu wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
plot, consistency, attention to non-cinematic details, world building, or even characterization
Surely Roger Ebert wasn't the only critic who considered these elements to be important?
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm not necessarily sure many of them were paid soldiers given that the Resistance is made up of individuals who weren't associated with a primary government.
From what I understand (this wasn't explained in the movies, obviously) the Resistance is made up of people who support the Republic but don't think the Republic takes the threat of the First Order seriously enough. They seem unlikely to be anything other than volunteers.


A lot of critics seem to lose perspective. I'm not sure if it's because film education becomes a hammer in search of nails, or because they are inundated with films beyond films, or because there is some inherent personality quirk in people who choose to become film critics.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Depends Infinity War made that and a bit more in just over a month, so whilst its not spare change its most likely under expectation (Awakens nudged just over 2b)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 17:51:32


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Kilkrazy wrote:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm

SW TLJ made $1.3 billion by April 19th. Is that particularly bad?


Star Wars: the Rekt Litterbox would make 1.3 billion. You can't compare the most lucrative property in history to schmoe movies like Transformers and decide everything is ok. TLJ making 1.3 Billion is like Justice League making 500 million: a pyrrhic success that indicates looming disaster, evidence of a drastic miscalculation somewhere near the core of the brand. Granted, it's not too late for Disney to Marvel-up the Star Wars franchise, but I doubt episode 9 will prove anything other than DisneyWars is still flailing about.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Kilkrazy wrote:
SW TLJ made $1.3 billion by April 19th. Is that particularly bad?
It doesn't seem so just stated outright but there is a guy who went through these numbers and showed how Disney could have made more money at this point investing the price of LucasFilm on the stock market than making movies, which doesn't even account for the cost of the pictures over and above the expense of buying the IP. Now the obvious counterpoint is that Disney stands to make who knows what kind of money "in the long run" but there's really no substance there apart from a best case scenario assumption ... and the best case scenario played out for TFA but not for R1 or TLJ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
film education becomes a hammer in search of nails
I think the more apt cliche, as far as TLJ goes, is about forests and trees. However - I honestly don't think the issue is having some kind of overly sophisticated understanding of cinema. The positive reviews I have read don't make a convincing case on the basis of film criticism. Nor is it an issue of "what the film should have been" (according to those awful, misogynistic mega fans) versus what it is. A whole nation of people who don't care about SW gave it the most poignant review possible - less than two weeks running in Chinese theaters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 18:02:25


   
 
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