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Tomb sentinels are fast attack, so they take away slots from wraiths, scarabs, tomb blades. And they only hit on 4+. Not a good idea.

Hypothetically, a Tomb Sentinel, Cryptek w/ Node & the DS Arcana, and a squad of flayed ones to act as bodyguard.

Everything Deep Strikes in the same turn, Stalker gets the +1 to hit it needs, flayers can also be charge threat. Sure, it makes the distraction carnifex approach more expensive, but I think people will be less inclined not to divert back to deal with something like that

EDIT: and it's only, what, 280 ish points for all of it?

 IHateNids wrote:
Hypothetically, a Tomb Sentinel, Cryptek w/ Node & the DS Arcana, and a squad of flayed ones to act as bodyguard.

Everything Deep Strikes in the same turn, Stalker gets the +1 to hit it needs, flayers can also be charge threat. Sure, it makes the distraction carnifex approach more expensive, but I think people will be less inclined not to divert back to deal with something like that

EDIT: and it's only, what, 280 ish points for all of it?

Not a bad investment at all imo. You could run a couple units of flayed ones too - help pull your opponent apart a little more. The fight twice strat making you hit 30 attacks with a unit of 5 is really strong for 65pts, especially when you're using them to help clear backfield stuff.

I think theres a very strong dual dynasty build out there that runs a couple c'tan, some flayed ones, a bunch of scarabs, warriors and/or immortals and maybe a sentinel alongside the usual chronomancer/cryptek suspects


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
Tomb sentinels are fast attack, so they take away slots from wraiths, scarabs, tomb blades. And they only hit on 4+. Not a good idea.

You're not expecting the sentinel to do major work dont get me wrong, but its niche helps fill a gap that the standard builds otherwise struggle with.

LOS shooting is something that the warrior builds especially struggle with - theres a reason why those sort of backline vehicles are on the up take and I certainly think necrons have had their part to play in that

I didn't notice those Acanthrites deep strike as well. Is it worth paying 240 plus a 90 point deep striking Technomancer for 6 deep striking melta guns that hit on 3+?

That squad is decently capable in combat as well, so it might be a decent selection in Novokh to deep strike, shoot, then charge.

There might be some mix of Tomb Sentinels and Acanthrites that could help form that strategy.

LiMunPai wrote:
I didn't notice those Acanthrites deep strike as well. Is it worth paying 240 plus a 90 point deep striking Technomancer for 6 deep striking melta guns that hit on 3+?

That squad is decently capable in combat as well, so it might be a decent selection in Novokh to deep strike, shoot, then charge.

There might be some mix of Tomb Sentinels and Acanthrites that could help form that strategy.

Do the Acanthrites have DS?? Obviously you can reserve them but I didn't know it was built into their profile? If that's the case then its a little bit more of an investment for sure, but their output is much more reliable.

A Novokh technomancer with the dimensional sanctum and the re-roll charges WL trait alongside the Acanthrites and some flayed ones sounds like a good force to have in your back pocket.

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
I didn't notice those Acanthrites deep strike as well. Is it worth paying 240 plus a 90 point deep striking Technomancer for 6 deep striking melta guns that hit on 3+?

That squad is decently capable in combat as well, so it might be a decent selection in Novokh to deep strike, shoot, then charge.

There might be some mix of Tomb Sentinels and Acanthrites that could help form that strategy.

Do the Acanthrites have DS?? Obviously you can reserve them but I didn't know it was built into their profile? If that's the case then its a little bit more of an investment for sure, but their output is much more reliable.

A Novokh technomancer with the dimensional sanctum and the re-roll charges WL trait alongside the Acanthrites and some flayed ones sounds like a good force to have in your back pocket.

Fly keyword on them. Pretty sure that means they can deep strike.

LiMunPai wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
I didn't notice those Acanthrites deep strike as well. Is it worth paying 240 plus a 90 point deep striking Technomancer for 6 deep striking melta guns that hit on 3+?

That squad is decently capable in combat as well, so it might be a decent selection in Novokh to deep strike, shoot, then charge.

There might be some mix of Tomb Sentinels and Acanthrites that could help form that strategy.

Do the Acanthrites have DS?? Obviously you can reserve them but I didn't know it was built into their profile? If that's the case then its a little bit more of an investment for sure, but their output is much more reliable.

A Novokh technomancer with the dimensional sanctum and the re-roll charges WL trait alongside the Acanthrites and some flayed ones sounds like a good force to have in your back pocket.

Fly keyword on them. Pretty sure that means they can deep strike.

It does not, deep strike is a catch-all term for all the abilities that let you deploy your unit in reinforcements for 0 CP and lets them pop up anywhere more than 9" from enemies when they arrive. Acanthrites have FLY but no DS, Ophydians have DS but no FLY.

Play Nephrekh. For 1 CP each any unit can have Deep Strike.

 vict0988 wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
I didn't notice those Acanthrites deep strike as well. Is it worth paying 240 plus a 90 point deep striking Technomancer for 6 deep striking melta guns that hit on 3+?

That squad is decently capable in combat as well, so it might be a decent selection in Novokh to deep strike, shoot, then charge.

There might be some mix of Tomb Sentinels and Acanthrites that could help form that strategy.

Do the Acanthrites have DS?? Obviously you can reserve them but I didn't know it was built into their profile? If that's the case then its a little bit more of an investment for sure, but their output is much more reliable.

A Novokh technomancer with the dimensional sanctum and the re-roll charges WL trait alongside the Acanthrites and some flayed ones sounds like a good force to have in your back pocket.

Fly keyword on them. Pretty sure that means they can deep strike.

It does not, deep strike is a catch-all term for all the abilities that let you deploy your unit in reinforcements for 0 CP and lets them pop up anywhere more than 9" from enemies when they arrive. Acanthrites have FLY but no DS, Ophydians have DS but no FLY.

Thanks, I was quite mistaken there. Looks like I conflated some stuff.

 AduroT wrote:
Play Nephrekh. For 1 CP each any unit can have Deep Strike.

"Select one NEPHREKH unit (excluding VEHICLE or MONSTER units) from your army." Not exactly, but you can do it to Acanthrites. It's probably better to Outflank Novokh Acanthrites right?

 vict0988 wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Play Nephrekh. For 1 CP each any unit can have Deep Strike.

"Select one NEPHREKH unit (excluding VEHICLE or MONSTER units) from your army." Not exactly, but you can do it to Acanthrites. It's probably better to Outflank Novokh Acanthrites right?

If I was gonna runn them I probably would play them as Novokh yeah. Reserving a full squad would cost 2cp naturally though, so you may as well reserve the technomancer additionally for no extra cost. I just realised the re-roll charges WL trait is core locked too, which makes the play a little less viable. Reserving a sentinel, flayed ones and a dimensional sanctum technomancer is much cheaper at that point too, so I guess its very dependent on your local meta in terms of what you pick.

8" charge out of DS is still much more workable than a 9" though either way.

A rerollable 9" charge is 48%, a rerollable 8" charge is 58%. Better, but not much more workable.

 p5freak wrote:
A rerollable 9" charge is 48%, a rerollable 8" charge is 58%. Better, but not much more workable.

rerollable 8 is 66% (15/36+(21/36*15/36))

LiMunPai wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A rerollable 9" charge is 48%, a rerollable 8" charge is 58%. Better, but not much more workable.

rerollable 8 is 66% (15/36+(21/36*15/36))

Damn straight it is. In reality though it's actually much more than 66% because I'll roll an 8 everytime I need a 9

If anyone cares to check it out, I posted up the promised batrep on the 40k batrep forum.

Ran Heavy Destroyers and a Seraptek Heavy Construct in my list vs Admech.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/794838.page

My thoughts on each unit's performance, if you don't mind spoilers.

10 novokh lychguard with sword/shield are veiled T1 with an overlord, who used MWBD on them, and has the implacable conqueror warlord trait. The protocol of the hungry void is active in the first battle round. The rerollable 8" charge roll is successful. Now disruption fields and blood rites is used. Thats 40 attacks hitting on 2s with S8 AP-3 D1. AP-4 with unmodified 6 wound rolls. And 50 attacks when the overlord makes his charge as well (no rerolls), and eternal protectors is used.

actually theyre innate AP4 if theyre novokh on the charge/got charged
AP5 on 6s

Novokh lychguard are rude.

I gotta try that

How much damage do you lose if you take them as not Novokh? I can imagine getting that kind of blender in position turn one to be a colossal pain in the ass with some of the other codes on offer as well

w/o novokh, its a ~15% or whatever it was less likely charge, 10 less attacks, loss of innate +1 AP, and you gotta pick which half of the protocol you want.

They still hit hard but as novokh they hit hard enough to pummel just about anything.

 p5freak wrote:
10 novokh lychguard with sword/shield are veiled T1 with an overlord, who used MWBD on them, and has the implacable conqueror warlord trait. The protocol of the hungry void is active in the first battle round. The rerollable 8" charge roll is successful. Now disruption fields and blood rites is used. Thats 40 attacks hitting on 2s with S8 AP-3 D1. AP-4 with unmodified 6 wound rolls. And 50 attacks when the overlord makes his charge as well (no rerolls), and eternal protectors is used.

It’s still a one-trick pony.
I’ve seen this kind of move too often.
Next turn, the unit is melting away.

Odds are good those Lychguard trade a cheap screen for their lives, so I wouldn't be so aggressive. They've been much more successful for me as a deterrent just behind my lines, while the rest of my army threatens midfield.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Odds are good those Lychguard trade a cheap screen for their lives, so I wouldn't be so aggressive. They've been much more successful for me as a deterrent just behind my lines, while the rest of my army threatens midfield.

Precisely how I use them. They are there to bail out warriors that have been assaulted.

This is exactly why the veil is so strong though - it let's you do something like this and expose a weakness right off the bat.

I dont think theres anything wrong with veiling early, with lychguard or otherwise, if it means you can build a strong lead from the get go.

In fact I think it's most potent either very early or very late into the game.

If you were gonna veil lychguard then novokh is a strong contender for which dynasty to run. Nihilakh could also be quite good to give them obsec, as well as a 1+ save (if your sword and board) in the eternal guardian protocol as the veil doesnt count as a "normal move" and you can still charge afterwards without this affecting the Save role either.

Personally I prefer the lychguard as a early/mid game counter punch unit. But that's more to do with the fact that I want them in range of the SKs re-roll wounds more often than not

TheNEWnew wrote:
This is exactly why the veil is so strong though - it let's you do something like this and expose a weakness right off the bat.

I dont think theres anything wrong with veiling early, with lychguard or otherwise, if it means you can build a strong lead from the get go.

In fact I think it's most potent either very early or very late into the game.

If you were gonna veil lychguard then novokh is a strong contender for which dynasty to run. Nihilakh could also be quite good to give them obsec, as well as a 1+ save (if your sword and board) in the eternal guardian protocol as the veil doesnt count as a "normal move" and you can still charge afterwards without this affecting the Save role either.

Personally I prefer the lychguard as a early/mid game counter punch unit. But that's more to do with the fact that I want them in range of the SKs re-roll wounds more often than not

Typical move for me is VOD 20 man warriors. 10 Man Lych advances up behind them with TSK. If warriors get tied up. Pop the fall back and shoot protocol and engage with Lych. It works really well.

The only army I am hold lych against is quinns...Because super balanced -6" range 9" auras exist for some reason. The VOD is super helpful against quinns. Lots of ways to use it against them.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
10 novokh lychguard with sword/shield are veiled T1 with an overlord, who used MWBD on them, and has the implacable conqueror warlord trait. The protocol of the hungry void is active in the first battle round. The rerollable 8" charge roll is successful. Now disruption fields and blood rites is used. Thats 40 attacks hitting on 2s with S8 AP-3 D1. AP-4 with unmodified 6 wound rolls. And 50 attacks when the overlord makes his charge as well (no rerolls), and eternal protectors is used.

It’s still a one-trick pony.
I’ve seem this kind of move too often.
Next turn, the unit is melting away.

I dont think a unit with T5 W2 4+ inv and 2+ sv plus RP melts away. I plan to use a second threat which involves 2x5 wraith followed by a controltek. If my opponent decides to concentrate his fire on the lychguard my wraith will hit him hard.

 p5freak wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
10 novokh lychguard with sword/shield are veiled T1 with an overlord, who used MWBD on them, and has the implacable conqueror warlord trait. The protocol of the hungry void is active in the first battle round. The rerollable 8" charge roll is successful. Now disruption fields and blood rites is used. Thats 40 attacks hitting on 2s with S8 AP-3 D1. AP-4 with unmodified 6 wound rolls. And 50 attacks when the overlord makes his charge as well (no rerolls), and eternal protectors is used.

It’s still a one-trick pony.
I’ve seen this kind of move too often.
Next turn, the unit is melting away.

I dont think a unit with T5 W2 4+ inv and 2+ sv plus RP melts away. I plan to use a second threat which involves 2x5 wraith followed by a controltek. If my opponent decides to concentrate his fire on the lychguard my wraith will hit him hard.

Yeah, don't let the veiled Lychguard stay on their own.
Combos and synergy are key.

I tend to Veil Warriors more than Lychguard but it can work great when needed.

I had a game against Orks where my Overlord veiled 10 Novokh Lychguard into combat with a bunch of Boyz on a flank. They wiped the out the Orks, then next turn used the Dimensional Corridor strat to teleport to the Monolith on the opposite flank, and wipe out another unit. Badass.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I tend to Veil Warriors more than Lychguard but it can work great when needed.

I had a game against Orks where my Overlord veiled 10 Novokh Lychguard into combat with a bunch of Boyz on a flank. They wiped the out the Orks, then next turn used the Dimensional Corridor strat to teleport to the Monolith on the opposite flank, and wipe out another unit. Badass.

2 deep strike charges. When things are going well it feels OP! I have done this exact thing against death guard and he was literally crying.

 Xenomancers wrote:
2 deep strike charges. When things are going well it feels OP! I have done this exact thing against death guard and he was literally crying.

The corrolary, and why I don't simply VoD Lychguard anymore: when it goes poorly your Lychguard get blasted from existence because they failed a 9" charge.

Exception: Deceiver+Zahndrekh+Obyron 2" charges (just if you lose first turn, they murder Zahndrekh unless you Deceiver'd him with a bodyguard screen). Before RP got worse for lychguard, I used to try and get a Cryptek with a VoD (if I was running Scytheguard, with the 5+ invuln against shooting) up there as well, to VoD Zahndrekh and then follow with Obyron and the Lychguard to wipe a second unit if they survived a turn of shooting.

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:


The corrolary, and why I don't simply VoD Lychguard anymore: when it goes poorly your Lychguard get blasted from existence because they failed a 9" charge.

Exception: Deceiver+Zahndrekh+Obyron 2" charges (just if you lose first turn, they murder Zahndrekh unless you Deceiver'd him with a bodyguard screen). Before RP got worse for lychguard, I used to try and get a Cryptek with a VoD (if I was running Scytheguard, with the 5+ invuln against shooting) up there as well, to VoD Zahndrekh and then follow with Obyron and the Lychguard to wipe a second unit if they survived a turn of shooting.

Shame they got rid of obyrons ability to drag a squad along with him when he teleports. I think it would have been the niche that tipped the pair into seeing table time. Ultimately they'll never be a better choice than imotekh as they are now.