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Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Agree with a lot of this, Ad Mech can be incredibly tough for a turn, or incredibly painful for a turn but a lot of their strongest combos rely on multiple stacked buffs that quickly lose their effectiveness as they get whittled away.

The key to playing Ad Mech is understanding what they are capable of and ensuring you have measures in place to mitigate the dangers and ride out the storm. Using units like BL Terms or Morty as a bullet sponge and being quite content to have them be shot at isn't going to work when Ad Mech have their buffs up.

I stand by what I said above as well, unfortunately we have an uphill battle as DG against Ad Mech because they do happen to counter our strengths well. Mortarian just exemplifies that to an extent where he's a complete liability.

   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan






Austin, Texas.

Sometimes my posts can come off as abrasive, so sorry if that offends anyone. I like to be direct and straightforward with my opinions (and they really are just opinions), and I don't enjoy sugar coating things when the sugar will rot your teeth.

Spoiler:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
@ninjafiredragon. Yes, you may have loaded up the map with obscuring terrain, but then you went and played with Mortarion, who from the sounds of it, could not be hidden out of line of sight. So, the obscuring terrain couldn't help you in turn 1, since with just Mortarion alone, you gave your Admech opponent a perfect target to sink all of his shooting into.

This is why some of us kept on saying even here on this Thread. Mortarion is a skew unit. Against armies who cannot handle him, you will win more. Against one of the shootiest armies that Admech is ... Mortarion is a liability. He is literally gifting your opponent 500 points.

If you replaced Mortarion with 3 PBCs in the same exact matchup. Now 100% of your army is behind obscuring terrain. If he starts first, only his planes can do damage. This is list tailoring, but bring two units of blightlords instead of one big bloc against admech. A plane flying over a unit of 5 blightlords will just tickle it. And then after that, he just gifted you both of his planes because now they will be in your deployment zone ready to be shot out of the sky.

If you go first with 3 PBC instead of Mortarion in that matchup. Stay behind the obscuring, lob all your 3d6 mortars into his rangers or vanguard (which ever you think is more dangerous). Because mortar is blast. Your 3d6 mortar shots just transformed into a full 18 shots against the blob ranger unit. These units are far less scary once they are reduced to 10 man or below.

So now, he gifted you 2 planes for a few mortal wounds, plus one of his 20 man is now depleted. This will force him to come out and do something, because otherwise, he keeps getting 3d6 mortars in the face each turn and they keep transforming into 18 shots when you target his 20 man blobs. He will be forced to move out onto the midboard objectives, and then you can maybe charge him when he does that.

Have we tailored against admech? Maybe a bit. But 3 PBCs is a very common DG build. Nobody will say running 3 PBCs instead of Mortarion is list tailoring. 2 units of 5 blightlords instead of 1 unit of 10 is such slight list tailoring no one will accuse us of it.

And so now, it will be a very different game, because instead of playing down hundreds of points after turn 1, he is the one playing down 2 planes and half a squad or more of vanguard/rangers after turn 1 and his chickens have done nothing. You are still not guaranteed to win. But now you have a game. Consider, now turn 3, you are charging out your whole army and he is facing you with just his chickens, 2 depleted squads of rangers/vanguard, and no planes and the rest of his army. His scariest threat is now just his chickens. And his chickens alone cannot kill your whole still intact army.

This shows very clearly how Mortarion is a liability against certain lists, and Admech is one of them. You didn't even need the new admech. The old Admech with unlimited mortal wounds Wrath of Mars could have stacked tons of buffs on a 6 man chicken unit and blasted Mortarion off the board as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Castozor wrote:
Your post is a bit eh, abrasive, but I do agree new AdMech seems a bit insane. I tailored my list against them (still not a tourny list mind) and he took the same list he always takes for lack of models and he still nearly shot me off the table in the first 2 turns.
I feel we lack the speed and ranged output to really contest them. Against other dexes we can let our innate durability fill in those gaps but AdMech is just to deadly for that to work. I hoped that with the new codex they shifted their power a bit from shooting into melee/durability to both fit better into 9th edition as a whole and to make them less one-dimensional but it seems GW just doubled down on their shooting phase.
Now as has been pointed out in other threads, they get basically one super tanky and one super shooty turn after that they kinda fall off, but I'm personally afraid those 2 turns are enough to mulch most armies.


We may need to play the long game with Admech. Sacrifice the first two turns and stay hidden for having a better play on turn 3 to 5. It just doesn't make sense to rush out into the open and get shot off the board. One thing about the new Admech, they don't like their tanks anymore. They like their chicken walkers and rangers and vanguard and what not. This means they need line of sight to be able to shoot you. So spend the first 2 turns staying behind cover and shooting whatever we can with our PBCs and anything else that we can reach while still staying safe behind obscuring cover. Do it even if he will take the midboard. After his first two turns are over, when litkely he has used up his Shroudspalm and his best shooting canticle. Then we come out swinging with most of our army intact. I am not saying this will let us win for sure, because we will be playing catch up, but it will give us at least a more even match. Since Admech nowadays need line of sight, they cant do much damage if they can't see us. And if they throw out quick or flying units like their planes or their fast attack choices, then those units are exposed and can be easily picked off and killed.

They are very strong, but Admech cannot bring everything. If they bring so much shooting, plus fast attack plus planes, their melee will suck. Once we do get into charge range, they will fold like tissue. Another list who does have some decent melee will not have the points for planes, or maybe won't have as much shooting.

This is why Blood Angels are a good matchup against Admech. They can fly up the board and continue to hug behind obscuring cover. So, they can still play the midboard while pressuring Admech, and once they get into close combat, they will outfight Admech and kick their butts. Drukhari can play this game against Admech too. Because their transports can also deliver their lethal melee troops up the field while staying behind obscuring cover. Then turn 2, they burst out of the transport with their advance and charge, and its pretty much lights out for Admech after that. This is why I don't believe Admech will be meta. There are armies that they face a bad match up against, like blood angels and Drukhari.

Also, here is the weakness of Vanguard. They are absolutely terrible at fighting. And they are not vehicles, so they cannot shoot while engaged in combat. Charge something into them, ideally through obscuring terrain so that they cannot overwatch (and even if they do, hitting on 6s). Even a unit of chaos spawn will kick their butts or at least keep them engaged in close combat after you get the charge in. And then after that, they are a neutralised unit. They either keep on falling back (and get charged again). Or they stay in combat and slowly get whittled down. You can even do it with a Rhino, and that Rhino will keep them neutralised the whole game. And the same thing goes for Rangers too. Once these units get charged, their effectiveness is reduced to near zero. Its the getting into charge range that is the hard part. Again, this is then about overwhelming Admech. Once we have reduced their effectiveness and they have blown all their best canticles, then we advance on them with our entire freaking army on turn 3. Its threat overload. He can't kill everything in one turn, especially not when he has lost his ranger/vanguard blobs. Admech's weakness continue to be its melee. The few admech lists which have melee will only have one or two melee units. They can't handle multiple melee threats at once.


You make a lot of good points here. Honestly I do wish I had triple PBC, but I do not. Kinda sad that I finally got the 10 blightlords I was wanting, and now I'm not even sure they are good enough lol. On to buying more and more units to be able to try and compete. Here we are again lol.
Splitting the blightlords does help against the planes, but honestly the blightlords were the really only real damage output my list had (I dont really count Mortarion as my DPS), because with enough CP investment the blightlords supposedly could do some real damage. Splitting them mitigates the damage, but maybe that's still worth it.

As for your point regarding playing passively the first few turns and then coming out once the worst is over.... Dont admech get to choose turn by turn which army buffs to give? So if your not exposing enough of your army, they will save the 2+ BS canticle, meaning they can just wait you out? And if they are taking the objective advantage the first few turns... Im not sure we can catch up in points. Normally it feels our strength in the matchup is playing objectives better, but this seems to have changed.

Also the list I was facing wasnt even fully meta, but with his 9 horses, 2 planes, Vangaurd/Ranger blobs and 6 las chickens, he was still able to bring 4 close combat robots and viel of darkness them right next to me. And, they have a strategem to make opponent fight last. So, if you want to charge them you are facing twelve 2+ WS, strength 10, three damage attacks before you get a chance to fight. And, now the robots are T7 and 7 wounds, meaning they are more survivable against pretty much any of our units than they were before. So while much of admech is still squishy in combat, they absolutely still have beefy combat units that need an answer.


I think you do provide some interesting points and new things to try against admech, but yea still absolutely feels like we are climbing a mountain to stand a chance.

I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





That's why I qualified that now we have a game at least even after such a long post previously. Victory is not assured against Admech at all. Like I said before, Admech is not a good matchup for us.

However, if he wants to get into close combat with us, that's a good thing. Most of our army is geared towards melee. We have far more melee capable assets usually in a list than Admech does. No matter how powerful a melee unit is, if he is facing a ton of our DG assets in close combat, my money is that we would come out ahead. Because he kills or injures one of our tough melee unit, we will have more.

On the subject of planes versus a 10 man terminator blob. I play a ten man blob too. Splitting the 10 man blob into two 5 man is not as bad as it sounds. Tallyman with tollkeeper still benefits both units. A Lord of Contagion still gives reroll 1s to both units. Yes, only 1 unit gets +1 to hit by Tallyman and not both. But that is not going to make or break anything. If you are playing the hide behind obscuring cover, your blightlords will not have anything to shoot at anyway. Unless its against his planes that fly over. btw, on the subject of planes, if you have enough poxwalkers, you can make it absolutely horrible for him to land his planes anywhere in your backfield because it is now screened by poxwalkers. Although, I wouldn't care. I WANT him to fly his planes over. That way, I can stay behind obscuring cover while still having good targets to shoot at and kill. If you are playing 3 PBCs. The minute he flies his two planes over to your side of the board, they are effectively dead. Between the 6 entropy cannons, and all the rest of you army shooting and flaming those planes to death. How much is the Admech bomber? 130 points? 160 points? He flies two planes over, does a few mortal wounds to a 5 man blightlord unit. And then gets both planes blown up and gives your whole army something to shoot at while remaining behind cover. To me, if he does this, its a win in my book. A very good trade. Would I trade a few mortal wounds for blowing up 2 flying assets from behind cover ? I totally would.

He sounds like a good player. In which case you have your work cut out for you. All I can say is good luck. An average power level faction in the hands of a good player can beat even top tier net lists. A high tier power level faction in the hands of a good player who has been playing that faction for a long time... well good luck.

Again though, 9th edition does highlight the skill levels between players. Just remember, its not about who kills more of the other army. Its about who gets the most victory points in the end.

If you want to play a more aggressive style DG against admech, or if you are forced to go first and absolutely want to make something happen. Then do this (which I offered as a strategy some posts back). Turn 1, lets say you go first, so you want to push forward. But you know Admech shooting is deadly. Well, we have this super expensive, but effective strategem called Cloud of flies. Push up two fast units on both flanks. Be it a chaos spawn or a greater blight drone or whatever. The key thing is you advance it forward on the sides ahead of your whole army and hide it behind obscuring cover. Now you can openly advance up your big terminator block and then spend 4cp to cloud of flies it. He now cannot shoot your big bloc with its characters and stuff behind because its not the closest. One turn of this is probably all you need (hopefully). But if its that important, you can always do it again on turn 2 as well. I would caution not to do this recklessly, you need to take into account where his vanguard are. They can advance into closest to your blightlords and then shoot you. Maybe wait a turn while your PBCs and 18 mortar shots reduce his vanguard to half strength before you do this. A half strength 30 shots with enriched rounds will only do 15 wounds. And you have terminator armor save. Its a lot more manageable. Wait that one turn and use it to shoot out his planes and stuff. (BTW, his planes may fine it tough to hide out of line of sight, because they do NOT benefit from obscuring cover just like titanic units.)

Again, this is not gonna guarantee a win. But at least now you have a game rather than just advance forward and get shot off the board.

DG has its famed toughness and resilience but there are some matchups where even that is not enough. And that's when you have to pull out all the skills you possibly have and play smart.Also, lets put it this way. say you stay behind cover, and just push out one sacrificial unit each turn to a midboard objective for VP. And he is so cutious he does the same thing (because he is so scared to come near you).Then play it out to turn 5, and it will be a close game right? Because your mortars will be wittling him down every turn, and both of you are just trading units while having most of your army intact.At the end of all that cautious play, both of you are not tabled, but it will still be a close game.

He cannot have his cake and eat it. If he wants to be aggressive and fly planes over, veil robots over, those assets WILL die. Because they get to do their thing, and then they get swamped by your entire army and die. (BTW, you also do have poxwalkers who can screen your backlines). 9th edition is like playing chess. You trade units for position and VP. Just don't make the mistake of trading your whole army. Each unit has its strengths and weaknesses. Same as each army. Admech is not a good match up for us because they have the firepower to get through even our famed resilience, but if you know and respect what Admech ranged firepower can do, its still game on!

I used to fear shooting armies a lot. Hated them. But as I gained more experience in 9th ed. And then I joined a local league game where they set up terrain well. I faced shooty armies that would have blown me up on paper. Like that imperium army with two full pay load manticores, two tank commanders and him having vengence of cadia. Or space marine army with double redemptor dreadnaughts and a full anti tank build contemptor dreadnaught and tons of shots. But after I still beat them. I started to realise that with the right strategy, the occasional use of cloud of flies, and making smart use of terrain. It can be played around. Even "bad" matchups. I faced a frozen stars harlequins army in the league match. It had 15 jetbikes with haywire. On paper, that is murder against my 3 PBCs. But I kept my PBCs hidden as best as I could and well backfield, and I boldly advanced up the rest of my army super aggressively. (Because haywire does nothing against terminators). In the end, he could only get some haywire shots into my PBCs. And in trying to get those haywire shots in, he put all of his 15 jetbikes in a position to get charged by me on turn 2. I lost 1 PBC and one damaged to haywire. But in return, I wiped out 11 jetbikes out of 15 by the end of turn 2 after charging them. Good trade, if you ask me. Again, like I said, 9th ed 40k is like Chess. Its about trading pieces/units and position.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/19 03:26:52


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Since we got the clarification regarding summoning not breaking Contagions, has anyone given it a go? Any good?
   
Made in ca
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The Frozen North

 Nazrak wrote:
Since we got the clarification regarding summoning not breaking Contagions, has anyone given it a go? Any good?


A few players have run Daemon Engines with summoned Epidemius to decent success.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





The main thing I would want from Nurgle daemons would be either Epidermius and Nurglings for their forward scout deploy. But since you have to summon in Nurglings, you kind of lose the point of playing with Nurglings. Epidermius likely needs a killy type of DG list built around him.
   
Made in ca
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The Frozen North

There's an upcoming 1500 point tournament in my city, and I thought I might take out the Terminus Est for a whirl.

Spoiler:
Typhus
- Warlord: Harbinger of Death, Shamblerot
- Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour
- Force Axe, Lightning Claw
- Rotwind, Gift of Infection

Poxwalkers x20
Poxwalkers x20
Poxwalkers x20
Poxwalkers x10
Plague Marines x10
- 3 Plasmaguns, 2 Blight Launchers

Deathshroud Terminators x3
- Additional Plaguespurt Gauntlet, Chimes of Contagion
Deathshroud Terminators x3
- Additional Plaguespurt Gauntlet
Deathshroud Terminators x3
- Additional Plaguespurt Gauntlet

Biologus Putrifier
- Plaguechosen: Arch-Contaminator
- Gift of Decay: Plague Skull of Glothila
Tallyman
- Tollkeeper

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/23 20:06:51


Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





What are peoples thought's on Plague Companies? I've tried a few now and I'm thinking Mortarion's Anvil is the best. Simply for the warlord trait, which always seems to have a big impact on my games. The Ferryman strat is super useful and I want to try a Wretched list just for the fun of having a super psyker. But nothing can compare to the all purpose usefulness of Glooming Bloat and shutting down re-rolls.
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Fergie0044 wrote:
What are peoples thought's on Plague Companies? I've tried a few now and I'm thinking Mortarion's Anvil is the best. Simply for the warlord trait, which always seems to have a big impact on my games. The Ferryman strat is super useful and I want to try a Wretched list just for the fun of having a super psyker. But nothing can compare to the all purpose usefulness of Glooming Bloat and shutting down re-rolls.

For Mortarion, Glooming Bloat is almost an auto-take, for me at least.

However, the contagion that ups your AP value by one, might make it in my list so that I can heat flash another unit to give my 3x culverin contemptors a little more "oomph" against SM lists.

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





The warlord contangions don't really come up that often for me. Maybe its because I don't play super mobile fast attack units much, nor do I play Mortarion. So, I got no easy way to project contagions that far.

Usually, anything within 12 inches is within charge range too, in which case they don't usually survive very long against DG. The default gift of nurgle contagion that -1 to toughness is already great for me because it works really well in melee. Any of the other warlord contagions else has been situational for me.

I like Inexorable and Mortarion's Chosen. Inexorable because of the strategem that increases charge range by 2. That's great. And Mortarion's Chosen because that Vormitrx relic plague spewer is so good with 7 shots.
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

I've had a lot of fun with The Wretched, but they wouldn't be my pick in a competitive environment. That being said, the little bit of extra reliability is very nice and a MPC can pump out a lot of mortal wounds with the relic.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal  
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I’ve had some success spamming mortals with wretched and lots of pox walkers, playing a similar style to old Jim Vessel lists. Screening out a DP and two plague casters with each relic and dropping mortals with the MPCs extra mortals was pretty darn effective if the screen held up, which usually did. Lists that could bypass the screen or had the right weight of fire could mulch down those pox walkers, and I would have to change gears some. Luckily our characters and DPs are really beefy, so it wasn’t so bad. Again, I agree that my warlords contagion almost never comes up.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User






are plague marines worth running? i ask as i am trying to build a 1000pt list to start with for my reentry to 40k and then grow it from there. i know poxwalkers and terminators are the standard go tos but i was curious if a unit of plague marines is worth running as well or if they are points better spent towards something else. i would rather not purchase a unit just to shelve it when i expand my list. and yes, i know metas change and with new codexes things change, but i am asking in a general sense of list construction if plague marines are worth running.
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation






Plague Marines are definitely worth running. I have great fun with mine, even in quite competitive tournies. That being said, if you're aiming to be super competitive then you may want to look elsewhere as they're not seen as meta. You'll win games with Plague Marines but you'll be a better player than me if you win tournies with them.

One last point, they're just freaking awesome. They're worth running for that point alone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/01 11:19:32


Chaos | Tau | Space Wolves
NH | SCE | Nurgle
 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





I'm super biased, as I love the Plague Marine models and try and fit them into my lists where ever I can, but I still really like 10 man Plague marines as a melee unit. Not as good as Deathshroud for sure, but still worth considering.

Pros;
- Ablative wounds. Their main power comes from the flails and cleavers, so they can take some wounds and not lose a lot of damage dealing ability.
- Lower CP cost than terminators for cloud of flies
- Can hit very hard and using the haze of corruption or blightening strats makes them very flexible
- 'only' plague marines so your opponent can underestimate them.

Cons;
- Very expensive, the 250ish points are better spent on terminators. Also will need support characters to get the most out of them.
- No invun save
- Vulnerable to blast weapons

I also like some bare bone 5 man squads for actions and objectives. Save 1CP to put one in reserves too for doing the scramblers secondary (or whatever its called now). Here they are competing with Poxwalkers, which you can get a 20 man blob for the same points. I use a mixture of both.
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User






thanks for the recommendations. any suggestions towards their loadout and how many to run in the squad?
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Depends on how you use them.

Big squads are better for strat efficiency, like cloud of flies or +1 wound or turning all their guns to plague weapons.

Smaller are better for taking/holding objectives, splitting enemy fire, performing actions.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Am I missing something or can I actually combine the Blightening with the Putrifiers Blight Racks?
18 hits / shots with -1 D2 sounds a lot better than "just" 18 S4 hits.
Kinda missed that one.


Also, has anyone tried to play the Noctolith Crown to buff your Plague Marines?
I run 30-40 PM regularly and the Malignifier was a disappointment so far.


@Peterhausenn: I play them a lot, mostly with Possessed & Terminators in infantry only lists.
My go-to are 10 PM with 2 BL, 3 Plasma and 10 PM with 2 Flails, 2 Double Knife and 2 axe/ mace + axe.
If I can spare the points every Squad of 10 has at least 1 Flail, they are just too good.
While I lack good long range dakka those 50+ models lists worked great so far in semi competitive games, especially with the 9th mission designs. Not facing hard-core lists like admech tough, I don't think I could hold up well against those.

But anything from fun - semi competitive I'd say they hold up pretty well in the right list and honestly it is so much fun and I love the models.
With Tallyman, Lord, Putrifier, Surgeon and Blightspawn you also have some good buff characters with varying usefulness to choose from.
It ain't much, but it's honest work.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Peterhausenn wrote:
are plague marines worth running? i ask as i am trying to build a 1000pt list to start with for my reentry to 40k and then grow it from there. i know poxwalkers and terminators are the standard go tos but i was curious if a unit of plague marines is worth running as well or if they are points better spent towards something else. i would rather not purchase a unit just to shelve it when i expand my list. and yes, i know metas change and with new codexes things change, but i am asking in a general sense of list construction if plague marines are worth running.


For me, I have only ran one unit of 5 plague marines. And it was alongside a big blightlord unit and two other deathshroud units. Plus another two units of poxwalkers, a unit of Spawn running onto objectives turn 1, and PBCs in my backlines. So, with so many other stuff to worry about, that one unit of 5 plague marines are usually designated "will worry about it later". So that sort of works well to their advantage.

Have never tried running a big block of ten PMs. But I think cloud of flies will definitely be a good consideration if you do run ten since its only 2CP on PMs and a block of ten PMs is quite expensive. But you really need to get them into combat to get the best use out of them I think. Their shooting is not going decide the game for you no matter what you equip them with.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





 Grotrebel wrote:
Am I missing something or can I actually combine the Blightening with the Putrifiers Blight Racks?
18 hits / shots with -1 D2 sounds a lot better than "just" 18 S4 hits.
Kinda missed that one.


You absolutely can! It's amazing to see in action.

I'd also add that you should consider adding great cleavers to your melee squad. I had 2 of them take out two dreads in my last game, rest of the squad didn't even have to roll. And against infantry you just pop the 'haze of corruption' strat and go to town!
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




How do people feel about Possessed these days? I used to run them rather unsuccessfully in my CSM army but looking at the latest Death Guard iteration they seem... good?

I was starting to gear up a unit of melee plague marines with knives at the end of 8th - now that's not possible I'm considering these guys.

An extra 4pt over basic Plague Marine nets 7" movement, S5 and a 5+ invuln. With Horrifying Mutations changed to a flat AP-2 D1 plague weapon and 4 attacks as standard I feel like they're a lot punchier than they used to be. Not to mention the fact they actually have T5 and Disgustingly Resilient now.

I'm not a tournament player or meta chaser, but my usual opponent (when I actually play!) is Imperial (SoB, GK, Guard, Custodes and a smattering of Primaris stuff) and someone I'd consider to be an upper-middle tourney player and has come in the top 3 in local tourneys in the past.
   
Made in ca
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The Frozen North

Possessed are too expensive and bulky for how fragile they are - if you could squeeze 10 into a Rhino there might be an argument for them, but as-is there's no way to get them into melee safely.

Terminus Est allows you to deep strike Possessed, but without any way to buff charges, it's a big gamble for marginal payoff.

Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




I never noticed that restriction before now... seems arbitrary, weird and totally unnecessary. I'm not currently using any Rhinos so it doesn't really affect me that much but it does change my outlook.

For context my current list is:

HQ - Lord of Virulence, Warlord: Rotten Constitution, Virulent Fever
HQ - Malignant Plaguecaster

TR - Plague Marines x10: 3x Plasma (inc Champ), Sigil of Decay
TR - Poxwalkers x20
TR - Poxwalkers x20

EL - Possessed x10
EL - Helbrute: Multimelta, Helbrute Fist, Heavy Flamer
EL - Helbrute: Multimelta, Helbrute Fist
EL - Helbrute: Multimelta, Helbrute Fist

FA - Bloat Drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
FA - Bloat Drone: Heavy Blight Launcher
FA - Myphytic Blight Hauler x3

It's not cutthroat by any means but my 8th edition version of this (had Lord of Contagion, Chaos Lord, spitters on the drones and a third drone with fleshmower but no possessed) been a nice middle-of-the-road experience.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Your list could work... but probably more of in a casual play setting. In a tournament setting, I think it would struggle.

A previous possessed list I saw in the CSM thread used slanaash for its advance and charge. It also had slanaash sorcerors which could give it warp time and 5+ FNP.

DG possessed lose the advance and charge as well as the warp time. But resilience wise, between the old 5+ FNP and the new DR, its probably about the same. But losing the advance and charge and warp time is kind of big. The tournament winning CSM possessed list I saw would hide as much as the possessed blobs it could behind obscuring and would only "launch" one big blob of 20 across the board at one time (using advance and charge and warp time). (Unless it was confident it wouldn't get shot off the board).

DG possessed wouldn't have these tools to help it, and would get shot off the board. Even with the new DR, its not resilient enough against a shooty enough army out there.

If you really want to try it with DG, maybe just have one big bloc of 20 DG possessed and then use the strategem cloud of flies on it. This would work if you just had one big bloc of DG possessed instead of three squads, and you need other units to be nearer to your opponent's lines.
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




You're 100% right - this list (or at least my 8th edition version of it) did fairly reasonably in casual play and pickup games, but got annihilated by the meta lists of the time (granted terrain was fairly sparse). I didn't realise we lost Warp Time either, but now that I look at it obviously we can't cast it on possessed due to the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword being replaced.

One thing I really needed was to cram an extra CORE infantry unit in there so I can run the poxwalkers. I guess another unit of Plague Marines would be a better option (I don't own any terminators). How to people feel about gearing them up to the eyeballs with 3 plasma guns and 2 blight launchers? Too much?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Don't recommend it at all. Even with a Tallyman buffing a 10mn squad with all the plasma and blight launchers, I found Plague Marines ranged damage to be very lacklustre.

Instead take a 5 man squad with a single blight launcher or plasma gun (blight launcher is better) They can cap objectives or do actions and provide a small amount of chip damage. Don't expect anything else out of them.

If you want to do damage with Marines they need to be in melee with flails and cleavers. .
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





I have used a "super squad" of PM's a few times with a Tallyman to back them up and it's indeed rather so-so. Not bad but not amazing either. Since I love running loads of PM's I still do it half my games, but sadly quality ranged damage in DG still comes from our vehicles and not our infantry squads.
I'd still say give it a go yourself though, PM's aren't half bad and it's a fluffy way to play the army.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Castozor wrote:
I have used a "super squad" of PM's a few times with a Tallyman to back them up and it's indeed rather so-so. Not bad but not amazing either. Since I love running loads of PM's I still do it half my games, but sadly quality ranged damage in DG still comes from our vehicles and not our infantry squads.
I'd still say give it a go yourself though, PM's aren't half bad and it's a fluffy way to play the army.


I can confirm this. The super squad is fun and all, but they just barely do as much shooting as such an investment should and they can easily find themselves out of range of any targets.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





So we know the super squad doesn't pull it's weight but my budget is opening up again and I'm thinking of running a kind of "pre/early Heresy" style DG. So little to no Daemon Engines, mostly infantry with some Hellbrutes maybe. But this leaves me with lacking anti-tank, so what do you guys recommend to fill the gaps? I was considering Blightlords with Combi-Plas/Melta but I'm unsure as to how effective they would be.
Did any of you run Blightlords in 9th with Combi-weapons, and if so how did they fare? Am I better off with Hellbrutes and Blightspawn?
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Honestly, if you want to play that way you should probably look towards FW dreads.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
 
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