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20 man blobs from Admech should be relatively easy to take out if we focus fire them. Like you said we could use mortars against them if we have to, but heck even regular bolter fire from normal 10 man Plague Marine squads ( 20 shots ) or Combi Bolter fire from our 5 man Blightlords ( another 20 shots ) should do decent work in combination with other firepower/heavy/special weapons added/Stratagems/Tallyman. If a 20 man blob is going to give you problems, just shoot the crap out of it then move on!

Those 20-man blobs can have 2+ functional saves for one turn, and 3+ the remaining turns. For 160pt, and people regularly expecting to take 60 dudes... just shooting them isn't going to be an option.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Those 20-man blobs can have 2+ functional saves for one turn, and 3+ the remaining turns. For 160pt, and people regularly expecting to take 60 dudes... just shooting them isn't going to be an option.

Then may I suggest we get a Bloatdrone or Plagueburstcrawler close enough to the 20 man blob, get them in contagion range, and hit them with the Plague Spewers and then the bolter fire cleans the rest up with ignore cover, -1 ap, or more wounds from wretched.

Another great squad to take would be a 10 man Plague Marine unit in a Rhino, and give them 2 plage belchers and 2 plague spewers, Mortarions Son's detachment, roast them with the flamers, and even better ignore cover when they are in contagion range.

Also remember we can chuck out mortal wounds, add Plague Skull, stratagems, and smites, whatever you got till that 20 man blob is gone.

Are those 160 points for a 20 man squad just the base cost or does it include the special weapons?

They don't take special weapons. Their base guys are far stronger than I think you realize.

Likewise, Plague Marines are so points inefficient, and so easily removed by Ad-Mech (Rhino included), that you're making it easier for them to win. Those Rangers/Vanguard will always be screened by their shockingly strong Serbyrs Raiders, to boot.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
They don't take special weapons. Their base guys are far stronger than I think you realize.

Likewise, Plague Marines are so points inefficient, and so easily removed by Ad-Mech (Rhino included), that you're making it easier for them to win. Those Rangers/Vanguard will always be screened by their shockingly strong Serbyrs Raiders, to boot.

Dang, and here I thought Plague Marines were awsome. Oh well, guess ill just sell them on ebay and pick up the Admech codex along with the Vanguard and rangers and the rest of the army. Apparently Ad Mech are awsome! Guess ill buy them!

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Virules wrote:
I did go 5-0 with pure Death Guard without Mortarion at a Major recently (as per the YouTube video I shared a page or two ago), but I agree that AdMech is going to make repeating that performance very difficult and Sisters and Orks will only make it even harder if they are as busted as Drukhari and AdMech.

Loved the video. Thanks for taking the time to write out all of that, do the preparation, and make the video. Some good stuff in there.
The first thought that popped into my head, was how tailored to your meta did the list end up being? You mentioned you kept your meta in mind while list building, and as you faced Orks with Ghaz twice, it seems it payed off. Now, for me, in a completely different meta, where I almost never see orks, what differences would you implement in your list? Plague Skull and Typhus were specifically listed as reasons to get extra mortals on these "x wounds per phase" units, but are they worth it independently of that fact in your opinion?

Furthermore, were you glad you did not run the Terminus Ex army of renown (in your army, dropping 2 plague burst is the only cost right, and yes that is still quite the cost), but the upside could potentially be worth it (strategums, psychic powers). Thoughts?

Glad my video was so helpful! Plague skull is always worth it. Typhus is debatable. The problem is that I have to expect Ctan and Ghaz in my area. Not much I can do. Terminus Est is tough without fast models painted like spawn and possessed. Plus GW screwed up by making the warp charge on the powers too high and the strats too expensive, on top of the very punishing restrictions of no Mortarion or vehicles. It's a shame GW took a dump in the bed on the Terminus Est rules. But if you have 120 poxwalkers maybe try it.

 Black Knight wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
They don't take special weapons. Their base guys are far stronger than I think you realize.

Likewise, Plague Marines are so points inefficient, and so easily removed by Ad-Mech (Rhino included), that you're making it easier for them to win. Those Rangers/Vanguard will always be screened by their shockingly strong Serbyrs Raiders, to boot.

Dang, and here I thought Plague Marines were awsome. Oh well, guess ill just sell them on ebay and pick up the Admech codex along with the Vanguard and rangers and the rest of the army. Apparently Ad Mech are awsome! Guess ill buy them!

Especially in this thread, you need to pay attention to who is writing stuff. There many people here into top competitive gaming who are essentially playing a completely different game than your average store or garage game.

I think admech is a tough but playable matchup. A lot depends on the terrain and the skill of both players. Just have to say, we need to respect the firepower they can put out. Even their troop units can shoot our terminators off the board. So, they have a lot of lethal stuff, and they also have board disruption in their fast attack choices. So, we just have to be very careful playing them.

Skitaari are T3 4+ 6++
Lucius gives them +1 to save against 1D weapons
A techpriest manipulus nearby with Lucius WLT and Logi Holy Order gives them transhuman and ignore -1 and -2AP
A Skitaari Marshall nearby gives them always in cover or +2 to save in cover

Pretty much all of our anti infantry firepower is at best -1AP and 1D. Bolters, spewers, spitters, reaper autocannons, sluggers.
So apart from bight launchers we're generally wounding on 4s and they save on 2s. Ferric Blight is doing nothing for us, -1T is doing nothing for us.

Offensively, those 20 vanguard put out 40 S4 -2 1D shots at 39", 80 at half range with a strat, hitting on 2s in Protector Imperative and rerolling 1s to hit and wound because of the Marshall.

Oh and they can teleport so getting within 19.5" isn't too tricky so they can wipe a 5 man Blightlord Terminator unit.

Their offensive power can be boosted even further if you go Mars or something but I picked Lucius to demonstrate how tough they are for us to remove.

I actually don't think Ad Mech is a good match up for us as they largely ignore our strengths...

I played against Ad Mech last weekend and it was for sure a tough match up, but then thye always have been for me.
But he doesn't have anything near the optimized list people bring up online as being powerlists and his shooting still nearly tabled me. The Robots are still nasty when buffed up, the chickens are ridiculously cheap for their firepower and the Canticle (I think?) that gives them +1 to hit for a turn in shooting is very dangerous.
However I did win that game so it is not impossible. I used a defensive demon prince to lock his robots and kept throwing small PM squads at objectives to outscore him, having lucky DS charges also helped. I have no clue how I'd handle a list with lots of those rangers though, I don't think DG has anything that can really trade with those cost effectively.

Can you share the list that you played?

Abaddon303 wrote:
Skitaari are T3 4+ 6++
Lucius gives them +1 to save against 1D weapons
A techpriest manipulus nearby with Lucius WLT and Logi Holy Order gives them transhuman and ignore -1 and -2AP
A Skitaari Marshall nearby gives them always in cover or +2 to save in cover

Pretty much all of our anti infantry firepower is at best -1AP and 1D. Bolters, spewers, spitters, reaper autocannons, sluggers.
So apart from bight launchers we're generally wounding on 4s and they save on 2s. Ferric Blight is doing nothing for us, -1T is doing nothing for us.

Offensively, those 20 vanguard put out 40 S4 -2 1D shots at 39", 80 at half range with a strat, hitting on 2s in Protector Imperative and rerolling 1s to hit and wound because of the Marshall.

Oh and they can teleport so getting within 19.5" isn't too tricky so they can wipe a 5 man Blightlord Terminator unit.

Their offensive power can be boosted even further if you go Mars or something but I picked Lucius to demonstrate how tough they are for us to remove.

I actually don't think Ad Mech is a good match up for us as they largely ignore our strengths...

From what I understood reading the data sheet for the codex review on youtube, the Vanguard's base gun is 18" range str 3 0 ap, assault 3. what am I missing? that should be 60 str 3 0 ap shots, which are pathetic vs plague marines. It looks like they can take special weapons but nothing like you described. The rangers base gun is heavy 2 str 4 -1 ap, is that the gun you were referring to? Heavy weapons with max 40 shots, but thats without any stratagems or special weapons. Add special weapons and the cost of these units will creep up to 200 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wow just saw the stratagem, for 2 CP they can change from heavy 2 to rapid fire 2. But its still only -1 ap if you go Lucius.

The fact they can teleport into rapid fire range for 80 shots is worrisome. hhmm.

Yep sorry I was referring to rangers with galvanic rifles.
Heavy2 S4 -1 1D and 30" range.
Lucius adds 3" to the range while the Tech Priest Manipulus boosts the range a further 6" and gives them an extra point of AP.
And yeh, the strat turns them to rapid fire 2.

The offensive output can be boosted more if they give up some of the defensive boosts granted. As Mars they can use Wrath of Mars for a basically guaranteed 6 MWs or if they go Artisans instead of Logi on the Tech Priest they can boost the strength of the galvanic to S5.

So I guess the big question is how many points do each of these other units cost that stack with them to make them uber.

Also if they teleport they lose all those stacked bonuses, because they will no longer be in range of said bonuses, but if they go lucius thats still a good way to go to protect them on turn 1 then hammer a juicy target off the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So on average, 26 shots out of 80 will miss if they teleport in. About 18 wounds vs Plague Marines or Blightlords. Thats 3 failed saves for Blightlords and Plague Marines in cover, 6 wounds to Plague Marines outside of cover.

So at worst around 3 dead Plague Marines from a teleporting squad.

Not scared of it honestly, although with the ways of swingy dice in 40k, anything could happen and you could lose more.

If however they have all the buffs stacked, it is much scarier but you have a chance to position and deal with them properly, we just need to come up with a battle plan.

Thing is they don't need to teleport in with 39" rapid fire weapons but they can if they wish. As far as buffs go they can just as easily teleport into buff range if they are recycling units.

I don't think it's terrifying, but it's worth being prepared going into your first game against it because they can really punish us. If you can ride out the worst of their buffs, a few of which are one and done or rapidly fall off on power once you begin to whittle down their units then you will come back into the game.

Vanguard have a strategem called Enriched rounds that only cost 1CP but it allows their radium guns to autowounds on hits of 4+. Their basic gun already shoots 3 times per gun. So, 60 shots from a 20 man Vanguard blob with that strategem will do 30 wounds even if they roll average on a 4+. (This is not factoring anything else to support, or the fact that Vanguard actually have a BS of 3+). You are likely looking at at least 30+ wounds.

Its the sheer number of wounds. 30 over wounds on a squad of 5 plague marines will kill it even if they have a 3+ save and roll average on their saves.

The rangers method to do a lot of damage need more CP (the rapid fire 2 strategem and the wounds on 6s is mortal wounds strategem), but the range is longer.

The old admech was already a very shooty army but its danger wasn't from its obsec troops. Old admech just to some token 5 man ranger squads that usually stayed back and called it a day. It was its other stuff that killed you.

But now. it has all that other stuff (many improved), plus it has deadly obsec ranger or vangaurd blobs that can take midboard objectives, teleport to the rear, and yet are lethal against almost any unit in the game due to the sheer number of shots it can do.

Just imagine Cultists prenerf. Ranger and vanguard are kind of like that right now. In min squads, no one cares. But in max man blobs, with some strategems, they are a force to be reckoned with.

Not saying we can't play them. And admech players need to get used to their new stuff. None of them ever had to play with ranger or vanguard blobs before. Plus maybe not all admech players have tons of vanguard and ranger models. But the skilled one who do have the models to play blobs are going to be very scary to face.

why guys try always to underestimate some units? rangers are broken...try to deny it is odd. As wh40K is now DG is a mid tier codex unless played by a very skilled player, AdMech and Drukari are meta codex and if you cant pull out a consistent chance of victories against them you will always fail if you go at any tournament. As Jidmah said here lot play competitive and are full aware now DG is not the best pick for a tournament
At you house i dont think you will never face 60 ranger super buffed so problem solved.

Mortarion1985 wrote:
Can you share the list that you played?

My list, roughly, was 3x 5 PM barebone squads, just to hop on objectives, 3x 20 poxwalkers just for the bodies, 2 PBC and 1x 2 MBH, a unit of Deathshroud, Malignant plague caster, flamer guy, tallyman, 2x Hellbrutes with MM/Fist and a DP with wings and the Suppurating plate + ignore ap -1/-2 and T7. Probably not the most optimized list but then, none of the lists here are Tournament level. If I had taken my regular list full of PM I probably would have lost, they are way too slow and expensive to reliably do anything against AdMech.

 blackmage wrote:
why guys try always to underestimate some units? rangers are broken...try to deny it is odd. As wh40K is now DG is a mid tier codex unless played by a very skilled player, AdMech and Drukari are meta codex and if you cant pull out a consistent chance of victories against them you will always fail if you go at any tournament. As Jidmah said here lot play competitive and are full aware now DG is not the best pick for a tournament
At you house i dont think you will never face 60 ranger super buffed so problem solved.

It's not so much underestimating some units, it's more trying to reign in the hyperbole that tends to get thrown around on Dakka. Remember when the Nightbringer was OP ridiculousness? Dark Angels' permanent transhuman was unplayable? Mortarion was unkillable? PBCs were complete trash because of the change to DR?

Even most of the Drukhari nonsense that was actually, genuinely broken? They fixed it.

It's good to be aware of other armies' power and to rightfully fear it's strongest combos but I'm not sure we all need to set fire to our Death Guard armies quite yet...

Abaddon303 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
why guys try always to underestimate some units? rangers are broken...try to deny it is odd. As wh40K is now DG is a mid tier codex unless played by a very skilled player, AdMech and Drukari are meta codex and if you cant pull out a consistent chance of victories against them you will always fail if you go at any tournament. As Jidmah said here lot play competitive and are full aware now DG is not the best pick for a tournament
At you house i dont think you will never face 60 ranger super buffed so problem solved.

It's not so much underestimating some units, it's more trying to reign in the hyperbole that tends to get thrown around on Dakka. Remember when the Nightbringer was OP ridiculousness? Dark Angels' permanent transhuman was unplayable? Mortarion was unkillable? PBCs were complete trash because of the change to DR?

Even most of the Drukhari nonsense that was actually, genuinely broken? They fixed it.

It's good to be aware of other armies' power and to rightfully fear it's strongest combos but I'm not sure we all need to set fire to our Death Guard armies quite yet...

agree about that...what i meant is...i read some comments that seems like understimating what some units can do (example AdMech rangers), as i said above DG into capable hands is still a good army, but you need skills to pilot it in tournament and expect good results, it has nothing so broken or OP right now.

Abaddon303 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
why guys try always to underestimate some units? rangers are broken...try to deny it is odd. As wh40K is now DG is a mid tier codex unless played by a very skilled player, AdMech and Drukari are meta codex and if you cant pull out a consistent chance of victories against them you will always fail if you go at any tournament. As Jidmah said here lot play competitive and are full aware now DG is not the best pick for a tournament
At you house i dont think you will never face 60 ranger super buffed so problem solved.

It's not so much underestimating some units, it's more trying to reign in the hyperbole that tends to get thrown around on Dakka. Remember when the Nightbringer was OP ridiculousness? Dark Angels' permanent transhuman was unplayable? Mortarion was unkillable? PBCs were complete trash because of the change to DR?

Even most of the Drukhari nonsense that was actually, genuinely broken? They fixed it.

It's good to be aware of other armies' power and to rightfully fear it's strongest combos but I'm not sure we all need to set fire to our Death Guard armies quite yet...

Well apparently we cant play with our Plague Marines or Rhino's anymore, by taking them we make it easier for Admech to kill us apparently, according to posters here on Dakka! I just sold mine on ebay, why take a unit or any models that makes it easier for the opponent to win? I certainly don't want to do that, and neither should anyone here! I highly recommend everyone who owns Death Guard that is a member of this forum to immediately sell there Plague Marines and Rhino's, after all this is a hardcore pro forum, you can bet the members who give advice in this forum know exactly what they are talking about! They are pro's and know exactly what they are doing!

 Black Knight wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
why guys try always to underestimate some units? rangers are broken...try to deny it is odd. As wh40K is now DG is a mid tier codex unless played by a very skilled player, AdMech and Drukari are meta codex and if you cant pull out a consistent chance of victories against them you will always fail if you go at any tournament. As Jidmah said here lot play competitive and are full aware now DG is not the best pick for a tournament
At you house i dont think you will never face 60 ranger super buffed so problem solved.

It's not so much underestimating some units, it's more trying to reign in the hyperbole that tends to get thrown around on Dakka. Remember when the Nightbringer was OP ridiculousness? Dark Angels' permanent transhuman was unplayable? Mortarion was unkillable? PBCs were complete trash because of the change to DR?

Even most of the Drukhari nonsense that was actually, genuinely broken? They fixed it.

It's good to be aware of other armies' power and to rightfully fear it's strongest combos but I'm not sure we all need to set fire to our Death Guard armies quite yet...

Well apparently we cant play with our Plague Marines or Rhino's anymore, by taking them we make it easier for Admech to kill us apparently, according to posters here on Dakka! I just sold mine on ebay, why take a unit or any models that makes it easier for the opponent to win? I certainly don't want to do that, and neither should anyone here! I highly recommend everyone who owns Death Guard that is a member of this forum to immediately sell there Plague Marines and Rhino's, after all this is a hardcore pro forum, you can bet the members who give advice in this forum know exactly what they are talking about! They are pro's and know exactly what they are doing!

That made me chuckle.

Nicolas Wenker piloted a pure DG list (without any Mortarion) to a 3rd place finish in the recent Utah Gamer's Alliance Open.

Lets see how it goes. Drukhari still seem very dominant but not all GTs have started to implement the faq nerfs yet to Drukhari. In any case, if we good enough against most armies, with the exception of Drukhari (which almost everyone has some problems with), then I think DG is still fine.

I think it speaks for the resilience of our codex that despite Dark Angels codex coming out with an even more tanky block of terminators than we have, DG still places well in tourneys. This shows that as an army, DG really synergies well. We are not just solely about being tanky and disgustingly resilient.

I wouldn't worry about Admech as much yet. Admech is a very new and relatively expensive army. Not a lot of players have a full admech army. With Drukhari still being so dominant, I think the meta chasing players will still go for Drukhari. If admech is a hard Drukhari counter, maybe some would switch. But in truth, Admech does not hard counter Drukhari at all. So, Admech players are still probably mostly played by true blue Admech fans. So we likely won't face a lot of Admech.

I play against DA quite a lot, and I think the reason why they aren't causing as much trouble for DG is that we actually are quite good at shredding them despite permanent transhuman. There are many options to deal mortal wound and/or 3 damage in our codex.

 Jidmah wrote:
I play against DA quite a lot, and I think the reason why they aren't causing as much trouble for DG is that we actually are quite good at shredding them despite permanent transhuman. There are many options to deal mortal wound and/or 3 damage in our codex.

Plus if they want to bring a huge block of deathwing plus support, its a massive point sink. Somehow, DG list synergies well enough that even if we do bring a big block of blightlord terminators plus some deathshroud, we still do fine. For Dark Angels, if they want an unkillable block of terminators, all the support characters and stuff plus that big block itself adds up to easily 800 points. Its like, if you want to invest in that many points to hold one objective, that's fine. I will just go and take every other objective and kill the rest of your army. Or like Jidmah said, we can use mortal wounds to whittle down even the unkillable terminator bloc too.

If you are not a tournament player please ignore this post.

Posted in the other thread, but I will repost here.
You know how Dhrukari were just a step above every other codex released so far? Well admech are even a step above them in my current opinion. Yes, you can discredit everything I have to say based on my experience of only one game vs the new admech, but jeesh I'm more disheartened about this then I was vs dhrukari the first time.

Played my optimized DG list (Morty, 10 Blightlords, death shrouds, poxwalkers and PBC) vs new admech (robots, 20 vanguard, 20 rangers,6 las chickens, etc)

I wanted to concede after turn one but stayed till I was nearly wiped by end of turn 2. We purposfully loaded the table with obscuring terrain to make it difficult for him to get good shooting lanes. It didn't matter. He went first, flew two planes over my terminators, rolled average and dealt 10 mortal wounds to them, shot chickens and vanguard with 60 autowounding shots at Mortarion and he died like he was made of wet paper. Planes and horses then shot up my troops, and by the end of turn one, with over 80% of my army hiding behind obscuring, I lost almost a thousand points of units. Turn two he killed almost everything else. If I had gone first my death would have been delayed a turn but nothing else would have changed. Death guard can't do enough damage turn one to make a difference.


The new admech has everything. Tons of d3+3 damage? Yep. BS 2+ army wide? Sure. 2+ armor save (or better) on practically any unit in their army? Yessir. Mobility around the board? Extremely. Veil of darkness effect? Yep. 2+ WS in combat? Uh huh. Basic troops with 60-80 shots? Of course. A fight last in combat strategum? Better believe it. An incredible amount of utility units? More than any army I've seen before (half movement, turn off auras, turn off rerolls, turn off forward deploy, ignore ap-1/-2, etc etc are all tools available in the codex).

GW decided to take an already high tier codex, buff almost every unit in the book, add more synergy and even crazier strategums than before, and somehow thought it was a good idea. The balance for everything before Dhrukari was actually impressive and gave me hope for 40ks future. Now I'm extremely apprensive for the future of competitive 40k.

If you disagree with the above you haven't played a competitent admech list yet. Or your not a competitive gamer, in which refer to first line of post.

Your post is a bit eh, abrasive, but I do agree new AdMech seems a bit insane. I tailored my list against them (still not a tourny list mind) and he took the same list he always takes for lack of models and he still nearly shot me off the table in the first 2 turns.
I feel we lack the speed and ranged output to really contest them. Against other dexes we can let our innate durability fill in those gaps but AdMech is just to deadly for that to work. I hoped that with the new codex they shifted their power a bit from shooting into melee/durability to both fit better into 9th edition as a whole and to make them less one-dimensional but it seems GW just doubled down on their shooting phase.
Now as has been pointed out in other threads, they get basically one super tanky and one super shooty turn after that they kinda fall off, but I'm personally afraid those 2 turns are enough to mulch most armies.

Yeah, I do feel like the new AdMech have our number. It's a tough book to play/manage, lots of moving parts, but that's obviously going to be less of an issue in a competitive environment where people know their stuff. Haven't had a game against them yet (although I've read the book) so can't speak from experience at this stage.

I expect that AdMech is always going to be a bad matchup for Death Guard. AdMech seems to have been designed to have very high damage - higher than any army, even Death Guard, can easily soak.

AdMech will likely struggle in the sorts of matchups where lots of cheap pieces can trade and engage with them, while restricting their lines of fire. DE, SoB, etc

That said, I'm hopeful they get a few of the more egregious stratagems toned down...

@ninjafiredragon. Yes, you may have loaded up the map with obscuring terrain, but then you went and played with Mortarion, who from the sounds of it, could not be hidden out of line of sight. So, the obscuring terrain couldn't help you in turn 1, since with just Mortarion alone, you gave your Admech opponent a perfect target to sink all of his shooting into.

This is why some of us kept on saying even here on this Thread. Mortarion is a skew unit. Against armies who cannot handle him, you will win more. Against one of the shootiest armies that Admech is ... Mortarion is a liability. He is literally gifting your opponent 500 points.

If you replaced Mortarion with 3 PBCs in the same exact matchup. Now 100% of your army is behind obscuring terrain. If he starts first, only his planes can do damage. This is list tailoring, but bring two units of blightlords instead of one big bloc against admech. A plane flying over a unit of 5 blightlords will just tickle it. And then after that, he just gifted you both of his planes because now they will be in your deployment zone ready to be shot out of the sky.

If you go first with 3 PBC instead of Mortarion in that matchup. Stay behind the obscuring, lob all your 3d6 mortars into his rangers or vanguard (which ever you think is more dangerous). Because mortar is blast. Your 3d6 mortar shots just transformed into a full 18 shots against the blob ranger unit. These units are far less scary once they are reduced to 10 man or below.

So now, he gifted you 2 planes for a few mortal wounds, plus one of his 20 man is now depleted. This will force him to come out and do something, because otherwise, he keeps getting 3d6 mortars in the face each turn and they keep transforming into 18 shots when you target his 20 man blobs. He will be forced to move out onto the midboard objectives, and then you can maybe charge him when he does that.

Have we tailored against admech? Maybe a bit. But 3 PBCs is a very common DG build. Nobody will say running 3 PBCs instead of Mortarion is list tailoring. 2 units of 5 blightlords instead of 1 unit of 10 is such slight list tailoring no one will accuse us of it.

And so now, it will be a very different game, because instead of playing down hundreds of points after turn 1, he is the one playing down 2 planes and half a squad or more of vanguard/rangers after turn 1 and his chickens have done nothing. You are still not guaranteed to win. But now you have a game. Consider, now turn 3, you are charging out your whole army and he is facing you with just his chickens, 2 depleted squads of rangers/vanguard, and no planes and the rest of his army. His scariest threat is now just his chickens. And his chickens alone cannot kill your whole still intact army.

This shows very clearly how Mortarion is a liability against certain lists, and Admech is one of them. You didn't even need the new admech. The old Admech with unlimited mortal wounds Wrath of Mars could have stacked tons of buffs on a 6 man chicken unit and blasted Mortarion off the board as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Castozor wrote:
Your post is a bit eh, abrasive, but I do agree new AdMech seems a bit insane. I tailored my list against them (still not a tourny list mind) and he took the same list he always takes for lack of models and he still nearly shot me off the table in the first 2 turns.
I feel we lack the speed and ranged output to really contest them. Against other dexes we can let our innate durability fill in those gaps but AdMech is just to deadly for that to work. I hoped that with the new codex they shifted their power a bit from shooting into melee/durability to both fit better into 9th edition as a whole and to make them less one-dimensional but it seems GW just doubled down on their shooting phase.
Now as has been pointed out in other threads, they get basically one super tanky and one super shooty turn after that they kinda fall off, but I'm personally afraid those 2 turns are enough to mulch most armies.

We may need to play the long game with Admech. Sacrifice the first two turns and stay hidden for having a better play on turn 3 to 5. It just doesn't make sense to rush out into the open and get shot off the board. One thing about the new Admech, they don't like their tanks anymore. They like their chicken walkers and rangers and vanguard and what not. This means they need line of sight to be able to shoot you. So spend the first 2 turns staying behind cover and shooting whatever we can with our PBCs and anything else that we can reach while still staying safe behind obscuring cover. Do it even if he will take the midboard. After his first two turns are over, when litkely he has used up his Shroudspalm and his best shooting canticle. Then we come out swinging with most of our army intact. I am not saying this will let us win for sure, because we will be playing catch up, but it will give us at least a more even match. Since Admech nowadays need line of sight, they cant do much damage if they can't see us. And if they throw out quick or flying units like their planes or their fast attack choices, then those units are exposed and can be easily picked off and killed.

They are very strong, but Admech cannot bring everything. If they bring so much shooting, plus fast attack plus planes, their melee will suck. Once we do get into charge range, they will fold like tissue. Another list who does have some decent melee will not have the points for planes, or maybe won't have as much shooting.

This is why Blood Angels are a good matchup against Admech. They can fly up the board and continue to hug behind obscuring cover. So, they can still play the midboard while pressuring Admech, and once they get into close combat, they will outfight Admech and kick their butts. Drukhari can play this game against Admech too. Because their transports can also deliver their lethal melee troops up the field while staying behind obscuring cover. Then turn 2, they burst out of the transport with their advance and charge, and its pretty much lights out for Admech after that. This is why I don't believe Admech will be meta. There are armies that they face a bad match up against, like blood angels and Drukhari.

Also, here is the weakness of Vanguard. They are absolutely terrible at fighting. And they are not vehicles, so they cannot shoot while engaged in combat. Charge something into them, ideally through obscuring terrain so that they cannot overwatch (and even if they do, hitting on 6s). Even a unit of chaos spawn will kick their butts or at least keep them engaged in close combat after you get the charge in. And then after that, they are a neutralised unit. They either keep on falling back (and get charged again). Or they stay in combat and slowly get whittled down. You can even do it with a Rhino, and that Rhino will keep them neutralised the whole game. And the same thing goes for Rangers too. Once these units get charged, their effectiveness is reduced to near zero. Its the getting into charge range that is the hard part. Again, this is then about overwhelming Admech. Once we have reduced their effectiveness and they have blown all their best canticles, then we advance on them with our entire freaking army on turn 3. Its threat overload. He can't kill everything in one turn, especially not when he has lost his ranger/vanguard blobs. Admech's weakness continue to be its melee. The few admech lists which have melee will only have one or two melee units. They can't handle multiple melee threats at once.