Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Eldenfirefly**

Azuza001 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
This just in, we can field heretic astartes Lord of War for just 1 CP in an Aux Detachment as long as we have a heretic Astartes warlord. Our DG warlords have heretic astartes keyword.

So, yes, we can field LOWs like Lord of Skulls for just 1 CP now! Its always good to have more options like these. lol Previously, 3CP was steep. But at 1 CP ... well, its very interesting.

Where is this change at?

It's in the CA2021 page that describes CP's per game size, how many datasheets you can have etc.

**Virules**

I did go 5-0 with pure Death Guard without Mortarion at a Major recently (as per the YouTube video I shared a page or two ago), but I agree that AdMech is going to make repeating that performance very difficult and Sisters and Orks will only make it even harder if they are as busted as Drukhari and AdMech.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

If it helps Virules, I am hearing from playtest folks that Sisters are not meta-altering at all. Grain of salt, but it sounds like a decidedly "decent" book.

**Abaddon303**

There is a lot that makes sisters powerful right now that probably won't survive the new codex.

Although I thought that about ad mech losing the Cawl robot parking lot Wrath of Mars etc and look how that turned out ..

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

I don't want to get us off topic, but Sisters feel like a house of cards. Pull Bloody Rose or Repentia down and their competitive standings plummet.

**Eldenfirefly**

So, how do we handle the new admech as DG? Their shooting honestly scares me. A 20 ranger or vanguard blob can easily blow a Deathshroud terminator squad off the map. Their lascannon Chickens are probably the shootiest unit in the game right now. So, that will kill our vehicles. And they got fliers, and they got those doggies which can move block and then run away when we charge them and other fast units that can do lots of tricky stuff.

Anyone thought of anything? Even if we have to soup in something? How do we counter admech?

**ninjafiredragon**

Virules wrote:
I did go 5-0 with pure Death Guard without Mortarion at a Major recently (as per the YouTube video I shared a page or two ago), but I agree that AdMech is going to make repeating that performance very difficult and Sisters and Orks will only make it even harder if they are as busted as Drukhari and AdMech.

Loved the video. Thanks for taking the time to write out all of that, do the preparation, and make the video. Some good stuff in there.
The first thought that popped into my head, was how tailored to your meta did the list end up being? You mentioned you kept your meta in mind while list building, and as you faced Orks with Ghaz twice, it seems it payed off. Now, for me, in a completely different meta, where I almost never see orks, what differences would you implement in your list? Plague Skull and Typhus were specifically listed as reasons to get extra mortals on these "x wounds per phase" units, but are they worth it independently of that fact in your opinion?

Furthermore, were you glad you did not run the Terminus Ex army of renown (in your army, dropping 2 plague burst is the only cost right, and yes that is still quite the cost), but the upside could potentially be worth it (strategums, psychic powers). Thoughts?

On a separate note, yea these FAQ/Updates hurt me. I was in love with Warpy Morty. Now no allies. Sigh.
Actually felt ok against Dhrukari with a Ferryman list built around warptiming a drone and shooting it like a bullet at the opponent's raiders, add in gift of contagion and flash outbreak, and BOY did it feel good droning 5 enemy raiders turn one and halving their movement. Now that's not an option, and there's really no way to mess with the enemies movement turn one, which vs dhrukari feels like the only turn it matters. I guess we will adapt, and keep trying, but these changes, combined with Dhrukari and Admech release, do not paint a pretty picture for DG.

**Eldenfirefly**

Drukhari I actually feel like there might still be stuff we can possibly do to counter. Outside of a darklance spam list, which is not so common. Drukhari's playstyle is they want to come into close combat with the opponent because they have good melee units and the turn 2 advance and charge. So, at least they will come at us and we will have a game. And like I posted in another thread. Super chunky T8 knight that won't immediately die to a few couple of dark lance shots is something they will find hard to deal with. Souping in that is possible strategy. We can even soup in just 1 Lord of Skulls for 1 cp if we don't want to go Knight superheavy detachment.

Admech though. I always feel like it "feelsbad" playing admech. Their goal is literally to shoot you off the table. Feels like the leaf blower type lists of the past. Except the new admech not only shoots extremely well, but got lots of good fast attack units that go do objectives, stop deep strike and hinder you from moving around the table in general too. Lets say they succeed super well in their overall strategy. You would probably get shot off the board by turn 4. Nothing feels worse than having your whole army obliterated while you couldn't get to do much.

Maybe give GW a bit of time with admech though. Like they hit Drukhari with a couple of nerfs recently so that Drukhari are at least no longer quite so oppressive. GW will probably observe Admech for a while before they act. The whole 20 man rangers and vanguard just erasing stuff from the board... like if they hit cultists so hard with successive nerf bats last time, then why would they allow rangers and vanguard to essentially do the same thing now. Give them some time.

**Fergie0044**

ninjafiredragon wrote:
On a separate note, yea these FAQ/Updates hurt me. I was in love with Warpy Morty. Now no allies. Sigh.
Actually felt ok against Dhrukari with a Ferryman list built around warptiming a drone and shooting it like a bullet at the opponent's raiders, add in gift of contagion and flash outbreak, and BOY did it feel good droning 5 enemy raiders turn one and halving their movement. Now that's not an option, and there's really no way to mess with the enemies movement turn one, which vs dhrukari feels like the only turn it matters. I guess we will adapt, and keep trying, but these changes, combined with Dhrukari and Admech release, do not paint a pretty picture for DG.

Now that the greater blight drone can take contagions, you could try a similar thing with it? 14+D6" move on the first turn and then flash outbreak and gift of contagion. Not as good as before, and a bad advance roll ruins it, but its a possibility.

**laam999**

my DG is a lazy side project, can someone explain how Morty still isn't an auto include? I thought with his damage and durability he'd still be in all the lists.

**Eldenfirefly**

laam999 wrote:
my DG is a lazy side project, can someone explain how Morty still isn't an auto include? I thought with his damage and durability he'd still be in all the lists.

Mortarion is still great. But he is a lot of points wrapped in one model. So, even if you have him on an objective, for example, that still counts as just one model who is not obsec on an objective. Good players know how to play around him. He can't be everywhere. He can only be in one place at one time. Certain lists can kill him quicky. Other lists can tarpit him with transhuman, etc. He is still extremely good, but if you look at the more recent DG lists which have done well in GTs, Mortarion is not on those lists.

**Abaddon303**

I think the thing is worth Morty is that people saw how durable he became in 9th and presumed he was still as offensive as he was in 8th and they were rightly terrified.

Don't get me wrong, he still wrecks face, but he's a 500pt model and hits about as hard as a pair of Redemptor dreads.

The loss of DTTFE granting him cascading hits and change to blades of putrification has neutered his damage output somewhat.

What it means is that, while he's still great, he's not as devestatingly good as the initial furore indicated and people are finding lists without him are often stronger.

With the loss of ability to warp time him in the new FAQ, that's another popular way he was used gone.

Honestly I was never convinced that was the best use for him and I think there's probably more mileage in leaning more into his buffing/debuffing abilities and using him as a counter charge might be the better way to go.

He's in a funny place tbh because he can be oppressive in casual games if your opponent doesn't have the tools to deal with him, but competitively I think he's just fine.

**Eldenfirefly**

Yes, don't field Mortarion against newbies. They will definitely find him very oppressive and they will hate you.

**Jidmah**

New Mortarion is great for Lord Of War brawls though. He can finally tear stuff like Lord of Skulls or Knights a new one.

**Eldenfirefly**

Jidmah wrote:
New Mortarion is great for Lord Of War brawls though. He can finally tear stuff like Lord of Skulls or Knights a new one.

Maybe he can tear through knights easily because they don't get a save in melee against Mortarion (most of the time). But Lord of Skulls has 5++ invul and 28 wounds. And if you wound him but don't kill him, he gets more attacks, and each attack of that cleaver is damage 6. I think it would be a close exciting fight between Lord of Skulls and Mortarion which will boil down to who can make the invul saves, and who outlasts who. (And Mortarion of course also gets his revoltingly resilient saves too). I don't see Mortarion walking away from the fight without serious injury though, even if he does win.

**lare2**

lare2 wrote:
Got my first post pandemic tourney this Saturday. My FLGS does both a 2k and 1k event but just went for the 1k option as I'm incredibly rusty. Gonna try something new with the Wretched. Never ran them yet. List below. Will let you all know how I get on.

Spoiler:

Death Guard
Total: 52 PL, 5CP, 995pts
Patrol Detachment, Incursion
Plague Company: The Wretched

HQ
Death Guard Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]: Lightning Claw x2
Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Spells - Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality, Curse of the Leper, Strategem - Sevenfold Blessings [-1CP], Relic - The Daemon's Favour, Warlord Trait: Eater Plague

Troops [11 PL, 205pts]
Plague Marines [6 PL, 105pts]: Boltgun x5
Poxwalkers x20 [5 PL, 100pts]

Elites [14 PL, 285pts]
Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 210pts]: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter x3, Flail, Blight Launcher
Plague Surgeon [4 PL, 75pts]

Fast Attack [7 PL, 130pts]
Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 130pts]: Plaguespitter

Heavy Support [9 PL, 175pts]
Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: Entropy cannon x2

Well, was fairly happy with my performance today. Lost 2 won 1. Pretty standard for me - I'm not the best at the game! Think I get too carried away! Scored relatively high throughout though so finished 14th out of 26. I'll write up in more detail on Monday when at work... beats actually doing work. Pic below of my boys holding the line.

**Jidmah**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
New Mortarion is great for Lord Of War brawls though. He can finally tear stuff like Lord of Skulls or Knights a new one.

Maybe he can tear through knights easily because they don't get a save in melee against Mortarion (most of the time). But Lord of Skulls has 5++ invul and 28 wounds. And if you wound him but don't kill him, he gets more attacks, and each attack of that cleaver is damage 6. I think it would be a close exciting fight between Lord of Skulls and Mortarion which will boil down to who can make the invul saves, and who outlasts who. (And Mortarion of course also gets his revoltingly resilient saves too). I don't see Mortarion walking away from the fight without serious injury though, even if he does win.

That's still a huge improvement over having no real chance of killing the LoS while it just one-shotted him.

**Brymm**

lare2 wrote:
lare2 wrote:
Got my first post pandemic tourney this Saturday. My FLGS does both a 2k and 1k event but just went for the 1k option as I'm incredibly rusty. Gonna try something new with the Wretched. Never ran them yet. List below. Will let you all know how I get on.

Spoiler:

Death Guard
Total: 52 PL, 5CP, 995pts
Patrol Detachment, Incursion
Plague Company: The Wretched

HQ
Death Guard Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]: Lightning Claw x2
Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Spells - Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality, Curse of the Leper, Strategem - Sevenfold Blessings [-1CP], Relic - The Daemon's Favour, Warlord Trait: Eater Plague

Troops [11 PL, 205pts]
Plague Marines [6 PL, 105pts]: Boltgun x5
Poxwalkers x20 [5 PL, 100pts]

Elites [14 PL, 285pts]
Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 210pts]: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter x3, Flail, Blight Launcher
Plague Surgeon [4 PL, 75pts]

Fast Attack [7 PL, 130pts]
Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 130pts]: Plaguespitter

Heavy Support [9 PL, 175pts]
Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: Entropy cannon x2

Well, was fairly happy with my performance today. Lost 2 won 1. Pretty standard for me - I'm not the best at the game! Think I get too carried away! Scored relatively high throughout though so finished 14th out of 26. I'll write up in more detail on Monday when at work... beats actually doing work. Pic below of my boys holding the line.

Great work buddy! There’s no better way to knock off the rust than to play in an event . You really get to know your army and you’re armed with more knowledge for the next one! Good job on the win!

**MortarionsFriend**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
This just in, we can field heretic astartes Lord of War for just 1 CP in an Aux Detachment as long as we have a heretic Astartes warlord. Our DG warlords have heretic astartes keyword.

So, yes, we can field LOWs like Lord of Skulls for just 1 CP now! Its always good to have more options like these. lol Previously, 3CP was steep. But at 1 CP ... well, its very interesting.

Where is this change at?

It's in the CA2021 page that describes CP's per game size, how many datasheets you can have etc.

For those of us who are very dumb, can you share the text? I read the chapter approved mission tactics and core rule book errata 3 times after seeing your post and not finding it =(

**Salt donkey**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So, how do we handle the new admech as DG? Their shooting honestly scares me. A 20 ranger or vanguard blob can easily blow a Deathshroud terminator squad off the map. Their lascannon Chickens are probably the shootiest unit in the game right now. So, that will kill our vehicles. And they got fliers, and they got those doggies which can move block and then run away when we charge them and other fast units that can do lots of tricky stuff.

Anyone thought of anything? Even if we have to soup in something? How do we counter admech?

Not surprising that there was no answer to this question here. Maybe someone smarter than me has one, but from where I’m standing there is none. I have no idea why GW thought buffing the chickens made any sense whatsoever. And for a team that already realized that you need put a premium cost on buff stacking, there should be no reason they allowed 20 man skitari units to be as good as they are.

From a soup angle allying in shooting and fast melee units makes some sense. However, chaos as a whole has no shooting options near as powerful as ad-mechs (and playing a worse version of another army doesn’t work) and faster options only really work in a threat overload build, which is much worse due to the warptime nerf.

Furthermore, I’m far more hesitant to soup in general due to losing warptime. DG already have faster units in drones, morty, and haulers, and can get ok shooting with crawlers and volkite dreadnoughts. There are some better options in wider chaos, but these options aren’t so much better that losing -1 T contagion feels worth it in most situations.

So TLDR, GW has done quite the excellent job of railroading us into a play style that gets dunked on by ad-mech (even it’s a fine against many other armies). Rock isn’t supposed to beat paper after all.

**Eldenfirefly**

I saw a video of a blood angels vs admech matchup and the blood angels army scraped out a win. But unfortunately, blood angels playstyle is very different DG. Blood angels has hard hitting units which can fly and are very mobile. So, they can hug the obscuring terrain while fly hopping up the board. This works well against the new admech because nowadays they prefer to bring Ironstriders and don't bring much disintigrators and Ironsriders need line of sight. So, if you can make your way up the board without getting shot and then charge in, Admech will have problems because they are ultimately a shooting army, less of a melee one.

But DG playstyle is simply not like that. Its a totally diffferent playstyle. So far, the only I can think of is this. It is extremely expensive in CP, but it might buy us the time to do what we need to do.

So, the idea is to advance up the flanks with something that is fast and mobile. The fastest thing in our arsenal is the greater bloat drone. I think it moves 14 inches. Hope there is obscuring terrain in the midboard on the sides that the greater bloat drones can hide behind.

Then spend 4CP to give a huge terminator block (blightlords I think) cloud of flies and march that straight up the centre. The characters can follow that block. But every other unit stays behind obscuring terrain or maybe deep strike if deathshroud. So, because the drones at the flanks moved up so much, they will be nearer to the opponent than the terminator block. So, even if Admech wanted to shoot that terminator block, it cannot because of cloud of flies.

This gives us that 1 turn where we can move up the center and we will hopefully then be in a much better position to move and charge on turn 2. Plus more importantly, it allows us to push forward to create more space for ourselves so that turn 2, when deathshrouds deep strike in, they can do that in the midboard.

Turn 2, we move up further, shoot whatever we can, and then charge whatever we can and get mixed in. Because if Admech has something like Dragoons or stuff which can charge our drones, that means they should be within charge range of our terminators too.

This assumes we are in a good position to do mass charges on turn 2. If we are not, we may need to spend another 4 CP to cloud of flies again to get into position for a turn 3 massed charge.

This strategy is horrendously expensive in CP. But its really the only thing I can think of which at least allows us to still play the usual style of DG. It still requires two fast units that can move up the board at the sides till they get to a good spot behind cover so that they are the ones who will be nearer to Admech rather than the block of terminators marching up.

The other thing is that the ranger and vanguard blobs must die. I rate these even more dangerous than ironstriders. I think I would even lob all my plague burst mortars into them for the max shots and just to reduce them down to a size where their strategems won't cause them to do quite so much damage. The only consolation is that if they are running big blobs of 20, these won't be so easy to hide. So, they will be open to being shot at. (Mortars ignore line of sight anyway).

A cheaper way to do this would be to use a 10 man block of Plague Marines instead of terminators. Most Admech list probably don't have the melee to handle 10 plague marines with 2 flails backed up by our characters. So then cloud of flies will only be 2CP instead of 4.

Oh, one more thing, they can only use shroudspalm on one of the turns. Shoot them hard when they don't have that canticle on. I absolutely hate that canticle. Either that, or take Mortarion's chosen. I believe Mortarion's Chosen's ignoring cover also negates Shroudspalm because that additional armor save is technically a cover save. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I am so tempted to bring two Foul blightspawn instead of just the usual one because Mortarion's chosen also has that relic flamer that does 7 shots. Its good against Admech flyers too anyway. So one will have stench vats and the other will have Vormitryx.

Thats about all I can think of... Anyone else has ideas on how to handle Admech ?

**Abaddon303**

I haven't played them yet and the only battle report I've seen of them was the absolute drubbing on art of war the other week.

I'm inclined to think Nanavetti could have played it better had he been better informed on how the new admech codex worked so I'm confident the power level distance isn't quite as bad as that.

I'm also heartened by the nerfs handed to Drukhari this week to attempt to realign them closer to the middle ground so right now I don't think it's worth getting to upset about how strong ad mech are right now.

That obviously doesn't help if you come up against them in a tournament in the next few weeks.

I'm already keen to do some experimenting with dreadclaw drop pods following the changes this week, I wonder if they could help to close the gap quicker and a big lump of PMs dropped into rapid fire can do some damage and attract at least some firepower whilst you advance the rest up the table. If you can make the charge with either the PMs or the pod then happy days

**Eldenfirefly**

Well, on the subject of countering meta (the 2 top dogs are Drukhari and admech) Oddly enough, CSM's current broken state still seems to have some tools which make them efficient against Druhari.

Take a Havoc squad with 4 autocannons. Cheap, and you can cacophony to shoot it twice, give it VOTLW, etc. Autocannon profile is really good against Raiders. And oddly enough, the Havoc squad is great against Dark lances. All that d3+3 damage is wasted when you only have 1 wound lol. The first Darklance that goes through will kill a sergeant. Even 3 darklance going through killing 3 models will only half its firepower. Alpha legion Havocs with autocannons are probably a nightmare for Drukhari to deal with as long as they can stay far far back out of range of small arms fire. Even 2 squads of autocannon havocs with cacophony on one of them will mean 24 shots of str 7, AP1, D2. That could potentially cripple or destroy 3 Druhari transports. And a squad of Havocs is just 125 points, cheaper than most tanks.

And the other weapon CSM has. The Reaper chain cannon. Its 8 shots, str 5, AP 1. Again, 4 reaper chain cannons shooting into a 20 man blob squad of Admech should wreck it hard. That's 32 shots!

So, CSM has some interesting stuff against the Meta. Souping in an Alpha legion (-1 to hit) or Iron Warriors (ignores cover) detachment for Havocs, CSM psychic and possibly fast attack like Raptors is interesting. Cloud of Flies still works if CSM raptors are nearer to your opponent than your cloud of flies unit. The dedicated admech shooting units still don't like to be tagged in combat.

**Jidmah**

Honest question - what is so bad about AdMech for DG? What kind of lists are giving us troubles and why?

We only have one AdMech player here and it's just one of his many armies, so he doesn't always play them.

**Abaddon303**

I believe the big blobs of vanguard really hurt us due to the huge amounts of 1D firepower they put out. 20 rangers putting out 80 S5 -2 1D shots at 18" is

**Jidmah**

Since I'm quite sure that he doesn't have huge blobs of those already and is unlikely to buy and paint them up quickly, am I "safe"?

**Abaddon303**

Yeh on a more casual competitive level generally I think ad mech are quite safe to play lol.

Obviously people playing top table GTs will react much quicker but I know most people that play ad mech locally are more leant into Kastelans and Kataphrons so a lot will need time to retech their armies

**Eldenfirefly**

Jidmah wrote:
Since I'm quite sure that he doesn't have huge blobs of those already and is unlikely to buy and paint them up quickly, am I "safe"?

Yup. I think you are safe. Everything else is not as oppressive, though ironstriders are very good.

Admech is still shooty though. Something you have to factor into when facing Admech. They are probably one of the few shooty armies that can be so shooty as to be a problem to DG. Of course, a lot also depends on the terrain set up in your area. If there is enough obscuring terrain all around, it should be fine. But if its a shooting gallery... yeah, that could be a problem.

**lare2**

Brymm wrote:
lare2 wrote:
lare2 wrote:
Got my first post pandemic tourney this Saturday. My FLGS does both a 2k and 1k event but just went for the 1k option as I'm incredibly rusty. Gonna try something new with the Wretched. Never ran them yet. List below. Will let you all know how I get on.

Spoiler:

Death Guard
Total: 52 PL, 5CP, 995pts
Patrol Detachment, Incursion
Plague Company: The Wretched

HQ
Death Guard Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 105pts]: Lightning Claw x2
Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Spells - Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality, Curse of the Leper, Strategem - Sevenfold Blessings [-1CP], Relic - The Daemon's Favour, Warlord Trait: Eater Plague

Troops [11 PL, 205pts]
Plague Marines [6 PL, 105pts]: Boltgun x5
Poxwalkers x20 [5 PL, 100pts]

Elites [14 PL, 285pts]
Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 210pts]: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter x3, Flail, Blight Launcher
Plague Surgeon [4 PL, 75pts]

Fast Attack [7 PL, 130pts]
Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 130pts]: Plaguespitter

Heavy Support [9 PL, 175pts]
Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: Entropy cannon x2

Well, was fairly happy with my performance today. Lost 2 won 1. Pretty standard for me - I'm not the best at the game! Think I get too carried away! Scored relatively high throughout though so finished 14th out of 26. I'll write up in more detail on Monday when at work... beats actually doing work. Pic below of my boys holding the line.

Great work buddy! There’s no better way to knock off the rust than to play in an event . You really get to know your army and you’re armed with more knowledge for the next one! Good job on the win!

Cheers! Excelsior, as they say! Will hide my write up in the spoiler.

TLDR: I love the malignant plaguecaster and pox in Wretched lists and I need more practise!

Spoiler:

First game we played was Resupply against a Chaos Soup army. I say Chaos Soup but he only had 2 models - Mortarion and Magnus. I just laughed when I saw this list as I thought there was no way in god's green Earth I could make a dint in Morty, let alone Magnus. I decided to just try my best to ignore them both and play to the objectives, both secondary and primary. Regarding this, I actually did alright despite a very early hiccup which threw me off all day. I had the intentions beforehand to always run Teleport Homer and Spread the Sickness. I completely forgot though that you can't run two secondaries from the same category - my opponent had to remind me. In my panic, I decided to go for Spread the Sickness, Linebreaker, and Titan Hunter (a mistake considering I'd already decided to not really try to kill either of them). Anyway, we started, he took first turn and, as the new faq wasn't being applied on the day (came out before lists were submitted so understandably it would've been unfair to apply the faq), Morty was Warptimed into my face. In return I did my best to cover as much of the board as I could, with my FBD flying off to cap objectives, the Pox doing their thing spreading sickness, and termies deepstriking into their back to cap and score Linebreaker. Ended up getting tabled the end of turn 3 though and after that the lead I'd accumulated dwindled as he raked in max for primary on two turns. Game ended with me losing 68-44. All in, I really don't think I could've done much differently beyond taking a more appropriate third secondary objective.

Second game was Raid against Harlequins. Learning from the last game a bit, I went for Linebreaker, Spread the Sickness and, never having used it before, Despoiled Ground. Man, I just could not make that last one work and I really shouldn't have went for it against an army I knew would be super fast and super aggressive. In the course of the game we essentially swapped sides. He came forward very hard and very fast, quickly pinning my pox, marines, termies and PBC in my zone. As always the FBD pushed forward and the termies secured an objective in his turf but once my stuff in my zone died off, we were left staring at each other from opposite ends from turn 4, which was a bit of a problem as he'd taken the mission secondary, allowing him to score from my objectives. Oops! One thing that came to the fore this game though, was the pox and malignant plaguecaster. I mean, wow, the mortal wounds this cluster can kick out is nuts. With Torrent of Putrefaction and casting Smite plus whatever else was relevant at the time, I was chucking out 3D3 mortals every turn. This was then being followed up Mutant Strain and Eater Plague, making the pox savage. I started to realise this game what could be done with this combo. Really wanted to combine this with Diseased Effluents and Release the Toxins but never got the chance. I caught out this opponent and the third (more on this in a bit) with this combo and I really don't think our ability to really chuck out the mortal wounds is widely understood. Game ended with me losing 71-53 and I scored zero on Despoiled Ground. Back to the drawing board for game 3 then.

Game 3 was my win. The mission was Ascension against Imp. Guard. I went for Spread the Sickness, Psychic Ritual and we both went for the mission secondary, which essentially meant we were racing for the centre for one big scrap. This is exactly what happened. He took first and moved a Baneblade to cap the centre. He shot mainly at my PBC, etc. and, as I'd hoped, completely ignored my pox. To thank him I managed to get my pox to charge into the baneblade after my plaguecaster again chucked out 3D3 mortals. I was very impressed by the results. A full health baneblade was completely savaged by my plaguecaster and pox. Don't get me wrong, I lost a fair amount of pox to Mutant Strain but I don't really mind losing pox. His baneblade though was left with something like 3 wounds and was mopped up the next turn. Fortunately for me as well, it decided to explode and what an explosion! Amongst other things damaged, hidden behind his baneblade was an astropath and his warlord, the former dying outright and the latter taking a decent amount of wounds. All the while, the rest of my army was free to push forward and punish whatever else he had. I quickly secured the middle ground in turn 2 and just dominated it from there. This also allowed me from turn 3 to focus on Psychic Ritual. As I couldn't deepstrike the termies this game, I must say I was actually really impressed by starting them on the board and pushing forward. This also allowed them to pair up with my surgeon, who really earned his money this game. Great stuff and was chuffed with the win. Game ended with me maxed out with 100-69. I can see what people say about shooting armies in 9th though. Imp. Guard in 8th always beat me. In 9th though, having to come out and play the objectives, they are very susceptible.

**Jidmah**

Thanks for the answers. In general people here are quite competitive players, but since it's mostly dadhammer, no one has the time or money to chase the current meta.

If those units are as oppressive as you say, it's a given they will get hit by a nerfhammer in 3 months or so, no one will have completed an army of them by then.