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I think its absolutely sadistic of GW to release such a great army list as a PDF to be honest. Its absolutely tempting to play, but the risk of the army being squatted in 3 years is way too high.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Full confession, I had already seen this PDF elsewhere before I came in here (so your link showed as yellow), which made me flinch as your text looked like the same yellow the mods use when they issue warning posts.

I was like "wait, when did that poster become a mod??"

Me, a mod!? Terrible choice that would be. I do not have the patience to put up with peoples nonsense.

Daemons of the Ruinstorm PDF

beast_gts wrote:
Daemons of the Ruinstorm PDF

Not to be ungrateful but does this appear completely useless to anyone else? I don't see how one even goes about building a Daemon army, much less competing with one.
At first glance:

Zero access to Officers of the Line means one Command per Detachment. All units are under Heavy Assault, War Engine, Support, Recon or Fast Attack. All of which are 1-2 slots per detachment.
No special Detachments which combines with the above point to make list-building pretty horrible. If I want 3 fast moving units, some Brutes and some Beasts, thats at least 4 Detachments and unplayable without also taking a High Command for more slots.
2 shooting weapons, which are equivalent to an 18" Bolt Pistol and a Flamer without Panic. Where are the options for Skull Cannons, 'Grinder guns or Flamers of Tzeentch?
Melee weapons outside of Command/Brutes are uninspiring to say the least. Why would I pay +1pt on my Lessers for-1A to pick up Breaching(6+)

Well, they did a good job on the pdfs so far, they deserve to phone one in, as a treat.

Mozzamanx wrote:

Not to be ungrateful but does this appear completely useless to anyone else? I don't see how one even goes about building a Daemon army, much less competing with one.
At first glance:

Zero access to Officers of the Line means one Command per Detachment. All units are under Heavy Assault, War Engine, Support, Recon or Fast Attack. All of which are 1-2 slots per detachment.
No special Detachments which combines with the above point to make list-building pretty horrible. If I want 3 fast moving units, some Brutes and some Beasts, thats at least 4 Detachments and unplayable without also taking a High Command for more slots.

Well, you can use Logistical Benefit. Also Officer Cadre is a no-brainer, as there're no retinues or elites in the list. Also no transport, heavy transport or armour options. It's manageable to build an army. Not a proper 40k Daemon list, sure - but that's not the point.

I wouldn't say, "phoned in."

They only have so much to work with.... and the original daemon army wasn't the greatest to begin with.

beast_gts wrote:
Daemons of the Ruinstorm PDF

Let me see if I got this right:

The Daemon unit customisation is all gone. Reduced to atoms.

Smaller Daemons remain pretty weak and expensive.

The new rule adds Line based on WP checks, which means it will be best on units with high WP. Meaning Sovereigns. Did anyone have "Sovereign buffs" on their bingo card? You can still take three Sovereigns in 3.0 by abusing apex detachments and Special Assignment, and I expect you will.

The Beasts/Greater Beast have AP4 (though at least with Breaching), whereas the colossal Behemoth has AP5 on both melee and ranged with no Breaching, meaning this thing will bounce off lasrifle sections.

The big boys remain enormously powerful. I don't know how anything will ever kill Cor'bax with his stacked defences. And they made them Paragon which means they get to join units, which seems like it's not open to any kind of abuse whatsoever. At least Cor'bax won't kill anything serious because he's just AP3, unless you roll very hot on your 6+ breaching, but the other big boys absolutely will.

The statlines are all over the place. The Harriers are recommended 60mm round or 90mm ovals, but it's a S4 T4 W1 model. What is a Harrier supposed to be? An Age of Sigmar Fury on a base ten times wider than itself?

Did I miss anything?

It does seem like they will struggle to fill the points

But there's some interesting and obviously intentional design there that's easy to miss on the first read... the army is obviously heavily Command focused through the rule that gives each unit Line depending on how well they can roll Willpower, which Command has in spades, and it goes up to Line 3.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It does seem like they will struggle to fill the points

Oh, not at all. Keep in mind they are no longer excluded from taking allies. Take three sovereigns and one of the big bad LoW daemons and that's already half your points. Fill the rest with allies doing shooting and such nonsense, and you have a vicious list.

Similarly they can now also be taken as allies. Few traitor lists will not be enhanced by taking a single special assignment'd Sovereign allied in. It doesn't need to bring anything else, it's a monster of fighting and scoring both.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
But there's some interesting and obviously intentional design there that's easy to miss on the first read... the army is obviously heavily Command focused through the rule that gives each unit Line depending on how well they can roll Willpower, which Command has in spades, and it goes up to Line 3.

I don't think that's something you'd miss on your first read (nor is it all that interesting). As I said above, it's mostly good for Sovereigns due to their outstanding WP, creating combat monsters with Line 3 who can clear an objective and then immediately score a lot of points from it. It's by far better than vanguard since the enemy can't just counter it by reaction moving off from the objective, and most other armies get neither on their combat monsters.

I'd say it's pretty easy to miss, hidden in the appendices. I don't typically check there for core army playstyle/identity. Admittedly, the section is only like 4 items. With gems like Aflame.

It's on every single datasheet and also strongly highlighted in the WHC article!

Daemons in Heresy are incredibly tempting for 500 point Zone Mortalis games.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It's on every single datasheet and also strongly highlighted in the WHC article!

Technically, it's not on any datasheet, despite every single model having it.

It's nested 3 layers deep in matryoshka doll rules, which seems a weird step back from the 3.0 cleanup of layout and page flipping.

Anyone else wondering what happened to the Fellblade?

Feels like it was previewed forever ago.

On the Saturnine stream, which was 3 and a half months ago, and is the last previewed (not merely teased) model along with the Mk2 assault squad that hasn't been released yet.

But, we are in the summer heresy doldrums, as is tradition every year, even immediately after an edition release.

GW previews are normally 3 month windows but I have noticed that a new edition burst in the middle of the year often gets their second wave delayed until just a bit later than one expects. I think its a policy to let the new starter set really settle in the market and recharge people's wallets since even those not buying into it are often getting a surge in purchasing over that period

Yeah, I’m actually more interested in the MkII Assault Squad than the tank but I’m getting antsy too.

Oh, and the Boarding Dudes. Can’t remember their name. Breachers?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh, and the Boarding Dudes. Can’t remember their name. Breachers?

That was a sneak peak, not a full preview, so we're gonna see an article on them before they go on preorder. Only the Fellblade and Mk2 Assault can drop at any moment.

Bah! Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re a three kit wave.

Mostly, I just want my honking great tank.

I think I'll wait for the Glaive, myself. Not impressed with the Fellblade cannon for those points.

Also they should really have done more with coaxial. Some benefit to hitting the same target first; not a re-roll because they went out of their way to kill those, but maybe ignoring cover if the coax weapon deals damage or something.

Nuttin' this week

Next week, hopefully. Gives me three weeks or at least pretend to try to catch up on my growing backlog.

Full scale Whirlwind spotted in the LI book



The homage to 50mm square base bottom scratch builds is... lovely.

Makes me wonder why it exists tho, we have the Scorpius.

I hope you’re right, but we had people say the same about the Dark Mechanicum stalkers, saying they’re computer images.

Hum... it has both bolters on the left, like the LI Whirlwinds. The big Scorpius hasn't (and the Rhino neither). I'm inclined to doubt they use already made 28mm models for those images.

I appreciate this is close to “I can see the pixels” type thing?

But the twin Bolter looks odd. Like the one on the model’s left is more out of focus than the other.

I do want it to be the 28mm version. But I am left wondering.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But the twin Bolter looks odd. Like the one on the model’s left is more out of focus than the other.

I noticed that too. It also looks like the second isn't on the same mount - and 28mm Scorpius and Rhino have indeed only the place for one on each cupola.