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 Otto Weston wrote:
Is the Command Salamander a Fast Attack or an Elite?

Elite. The Scout one is FA.

So newbie question, but I'm trying to understand the advantages of taking conscripts in larger blocks as opposed to multiple smaller units that stick close together. Is it just better overwatch and orders efficiency?

I.e. If I'm trying to fill out a Brigade and want to run 40 cons with a Commander and commissar, is 2x20 worse than 1x40?

The commander gives 2 orders per turn, so that wouldn't be an issue, and if you keep the 2 con squads close, they'll both benefit from the commissar. Plus if one unit gets charged, the other is still free, and can provide fire support when the charged unit fails back.

If bigger blocks are better, I wanna use them; I'm just trying to see why most generals favor them

 Aenarian wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
Is the Command Salamander a Fast Attack or an Elite?

Elite. The Scout one is FA.

Ty. Looking for ways to fill out my FA xD --- I have two scout Salamanders as well and need a third slot (without getting another scout sally )

A list of the Fast Attack choies in the book:

Artemia Pattern Hellhound
Salamander Scout Tank
Tauros Assault Vehicle
Tauros Venator
Death Korps Death Rider Squadron.

So yeah, not that many. Adding the SM units we have:

Land Speeder Tempest
Tarantula Sentry Gun (Yes, it's FA in the SM index)
Tarantula Air Defence Battery
Deathstorm Drop Pod

Not a whole lot to choose from to be honest.

How does everyone feel about the Vulture as opposed to the Vendetta?

Sure the Vendetta will get you 6 lascannons at 230 points, but then you can get a vulture for 160 points with heavy 40 and a heavy bolter. Seems like it could be more cost effective for the points levels?

 Naix wrote:
How does everyone feel about the Vulture as opposed to the Vendetta?

Sure the Vendetta will get you 6 lascannons at 230 points, but then you can get a vulture for 160 points with heavy 40 and a heavy bolter. Seems like it could be more cost effective for the points levels?

Depends on what you need. The twin punisher will deal about 3 wounds to most heavy vehicles (T6+ Sv3+) little less than 4.5 against those with a 4+ save. A Vendetta can expect to deal almost double the wounds in the first case, and 7 in the second, and it can transport as well if that is of interest.

Against lighter units the Vulture wins without a doubt. So if you're facing monsterous creatures or lots of vehicles (or if you need a transport), I would take the Vendetta and otherwise the Vulture.

Then again, I would never take any of them because they are not artillery.

I think the fliers are going to be better used as they were back in 5th, pretty much in hover mode not moving. It drastically ups their damage. They are also not that squishy, being pretty much leman russes with -1t +2w.

 Aenarian wrote:

 Naix wrote:
How does everyone feel about the Vulture as opposed to the Vendetta?

Sure the Vendetta will get you 6 lascannons at 230 points, but then you can get a vulture for 160 points with heavy 40 and a heavy bolter. Seems like it could be more cost effective for the points levels?

Depends on what you need. The twin punisher will deal about 3 wounds to most heavy vehicles (T6+ Sv3+) little less than 4.5 against those with a 4+ save. A Vendetta can expect to deal almost double the wounds in the first case, and 7 in the second, and it can transport as well if that is of interest.

Against lighter units the Vulture wins without a doubt. So if you're facing monsterous creatures or lots of vehicles (or if you need a transport), I would take the Vendetta and otherwise the Vulture.

Then again, I would never take any of them because they are not artillery.

The Vulture isn't stuck with the punisher cannons though; you can give it two lascannons and 2 hellstrike missiles (Str 8, AP-2, D6 damage roll two dice pick highest for damage, NOT one use only). You can also take 6 HKM for dirt cheap with your two lascannons for one powerful alpha strike. A Vulture hitting on 3s with either of those loadouts (the 6 AA missile loadout is also pretty amazing, but expensive) should be the one we compare to the Vendetta.

I think the Vendetta is pretty outclassed by the Vulture now, especially since if you try and take advantage of the Vendetta's transport capacity your neuter its damage.

Wow, played a 1000 pts game today against Tyranids to try out my new Scions, really impressed by the Command Squad. 2 Meltas and 2 Plasma guns, I dropped them and the Tempestor besides a unit of 3 Warriors and the reroll ones to hit order, and I melted them in one go. Afterwards the Command Squad got evaporated by shooting but still, impressed by the lethality of the thing. Going to keep only one though, don't want to overwhelm my AdMech army with other models and I want to stay classy to my opponent. It will hurt less when it's going to get nerfed too haha

You know, I was thinking about my earlier statement of "if you want to go first and win on kill points, play knights".

I was thinking that we can use a LoW detachment too now. Baneblades are pretty comparable to Knights, to be honest, and unlike Knights we can bring support units for them. What if we tried to make a Baneblade death star? It's almost like playing Knights, but with tanks.

From the looks of it, in a 2000 point list I probably can fit in 3 Shadowswords (or equivalently costed variants) with full HB sponsons, a Salamander command tank, a Trojan support vehicle, and a company commander as a tax for those elite slots. If only I could use a platoon commander for the tax, then I could swap one of the Shadowswords for one of the 390 point Baneblade variants to squeeze out enough points for a techpriest.

I kind of would like to replace one of the Shadowswords with a Stormlord to give the list a little more anti-infantry instead of being so focused on titan-slaying, but the mandatory heavy stubber the Stormlord comes with pushes it 2 points over. Though maybe if I dropped one pair of sponsons I could have that plus a techpriest. Considering a 3-Baneblade list would only have 78 wounds total, having a techpriest would probably be useful.

You could take a Macharius Vulcan instead of a Stormlord, only 373pts with HF sponsons.

I'd take a Shadowsword barebones to keep it cheap, 444pts for no sponsons.

So two Shadowswords and a Vulcan would run you 1261pts leaving you with 750pts for support units.

Hmm, the Macharius Vulcan probably would be a good substitute, especially with its ability to sit still and fire twice (or time travel, in its current state).

So I have a bunch of Scions (which I bought in 7th) and I'm not sure the best things to put with them. I know the current "meta" thing is a bunch of Conscripts and Yarrick, but I'm not really about that life.

My main thoughts are split between three options:

1) Pure Scions, using Tauroxes and Valkyries on the table
2) More AM, maybe Artillery and a Baneblade variant or something similar
3) Some sort of tough melee/midfield unit like TWC, Grey Knights, Ravenwing, Kastellan Robots, etc.

Which do you think are the better options?

The Sabre Defense Platform - Searchlights, are those Heavy Weapon Slots and are they cumulative?

I think pure Scions sounds the most fun. It would make the most cohesive force thematically.

 Otto von Bludd wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:

 Naix wrote:
How does everyone feel about the Vulture as opposed to the Vendetta?

Sure the Vendetta will get you 6 lascannons at 230 points, but then you can get a vulture for 160 points with heavy 40 and a heavy bolter. Seems like it could be more cost effective for the points levels?

Depends on what you need. The twin punisher will deal about 3 wounds to most heavy vehicles (T6+ Sv3+) little less than 4.5 against those with a 4+ save. A Vendetta can expect to deal almost double the wounds in the first case, and 7 in the second, and it can transport as well if that is of interest.

Against lighter units the Vulture wins without a doubt. So if you're facing monsterous creatures or lots of vehicles (or if you need a transport), I would take the Vendetta and otherwise the Vulture.

Then again, I would never take any of them because they are not artillery.

The Vulture isn't stuck with the punisher cannons though; you can give it two lascannons and 2 hellstrike missiles (Str 8, AP-2, D6 damage roll two dice pick highest for damage, NOT one use only). You can also take 6 HKM for dirt cheap with your two lascannons for one powerful alpha strike. A Vulture hitting on 3s with either of those loadouts (the 6 AA missile loadout is also pretty amazing, but expensive) should be the one we compare to the Vendetta.

I think the Vendetta is pretty outclassed by the Vulture now, especially since if you try and take advantage of the Vendetta's transport capacity your neuter its damage.

A Vulture with twin lascannon and two hellstrike missiles are 200 points (112 base, 8 heavy bolter, 40 for two hellstrike missiles and 40 for the twin lascannon), and still deals less damage to vehicles if I've done my math correctly. Of course, the 6 hunter-killers are scary, but each hunter-killer has an expected value of about one wound against heavier vehicles, and .perhaps 1.3 against lighter. In fact, if the Vendetta shoots twice it should better and your Vulture now has two lascannons and a heavy bolter.

The Vulture may be more flexible, but it's never as good as the Vendetta at dealing with hard targets (unless both die after one shooting phase and the Vulture has hunter-killers), and if you're wanting anti-air, why not a Thunderbolt or something? Besides, the Vendetta has actual in-game flexibility as it can transport if that is necessary, and otherwise it does its job just fine. The Vulture has one specific load-out as well, but cannot do anything but fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
The Sabre Defense Platform - Searchlights, are those Heavy Weapon Slots and are they cumulative?

One Sabre Weapons Battery (1-3 Sabre Platforms) is a heavy support choice. The rule is literally:
Defence Searchlight: If this model has a defence searchlight, at the start of each Shooting phase it may select a single enemy model within 48" and line of sight. One friendly <REGIMENT> unit that attacks the chosen unit, adds 1 to any hit rolls until the end of the Shooting phase

I would say that it is not cumulative, besides the obvious problem with selecting a single model and then referring to a chosen unit.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, the Macharius Vulcan probably would be a good substitute, especially with its ability to sit still and fire twice (or time travel, in its current state).

Well, if anyone tries to fight you, just use it as written and fire twice, once in the shooting phase before. But then you have to replay the target unit's turn, as it may have lost additional models and suffered morale damage, as well as being less effective in general.

If you guys have any superheavy questions I would be happy to answer them. Been running 3 tank companies for a while now and own all the variants!

What sponsons are you using and how many?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you guys have any superheavy questions I would be happy to answer them. Been running 3 tank companies for a while now and own all the variants!

I'd love to hear your thoughts on most of them. Ever run one with a Titan or dual heavies? I want to pick up one and run it with my Acheron.

I used an Astropath (15pts) to give a 2+ save to my stormlord. It was OP... but the super-heavy died in 2-3 turns anyway. A engineseer might be necessary. In that tank I put 24 special weapon guys (=12 plasma). It was very strong!

I think tarantulas with twin lascannon are very effective. 150pt for 6 shots, a total of 15w at T5. They are small enough to get cover easily.
The restriction to shoot at the closest non-infantry unit is not so much a big deal when you have other anti-vehicle units. I'll play 9 tarantulas in my next game and let you know.

Do you think the manticore battery is better than the tank? The missiles are not the same. The tank's : 2d6 s10 -2 D3. The battery's : d6 s9 -1 D6. The battery is 35pts cheaper but has -4w and -1save. I think the battery is better since in the end the damage output is the same (even though the battery has less shots, d6 is twice as good as d3 damage).

Do you think the DKK Grenadier Centaur Light Assault is worth it? I'm not sold on grenadiers.
DKK Engineers seem good by the way. Has anyone tried them?

DKK has access to heavy flamer in HWT. 22pts each, 66pts for 3d6 automatic hits. Seems good, no? Obviously, they need a transport, but which one?

If the missiles were the same it would be, much like the earthshaker is, but going from 2d6 to 1d6 kills it in my opinion.

I think the two most efficient artillery options are either the manticore on tracks, with its 2d6 shots for 133 points, or an earthshaker platform with its 2d6 drop lowest for 80 points.

1d6 instead of 2d6 has the exact same damage output when the damage is d6 instead of d3. But the AP of the battery's missile is -3 instead of -2. It seems a better weapon overall, and cheaper.

My Tempestus Scion set just came in the mail. I'm going to make a Taurox Prime.

I haven't decided what to do about the autocannon and volley guns, I really don't like their placement on the side of the vehicle.

I plan on magnetizing it to switch between the battle cannon and the gatling gun, but I don't see much advantage in the missile launcher as an option, am I off base?

 argonak wrote:
My Tempestus Scion set just came in the mail. I'm going to make a Taurox Prime.

I haven't decided what to do about the autocannon and volley guns, I really don't like their placement on the side of the vehicle.

I plan on magnetizing it to switch between the battle cannon and the gatling gun, but I don't see much advantage in the missile launcher as an option, am I off base?

Well the missile launcher is quite expensive, and what it will do is normally better covered by the rest of your army so I'd stay out of it, don't expect your Taurox to live more than 2 turns if you want to unload your passengers in range for their weapons. 2d6 hits at 48" looks nice on paper but you could just have the cheaper Gatling that does 20 hits flat at 24". Your Taurox shouldn't be parked at 48" of your targets anyway, there's other units that do that job better. Use your Taurox as a saturation shooting platform after you disembarked your guys, because the pilots know it was a one-way trip so might as well use it to the fullest.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
1d6 instead of 2d6 has the exact same damage output when the damage is d6 instead of d3. But the AP of the battery's missile is -3 instead of -2. It seems a better weapon overall, and cheaper.

Less shots and more damage make the missiles far worse against infantry, where anything above 2 damage is mostly useless. Also, 2d6 shots gives a more consistent average number, avoiding some of the extreme swing of a 1d6 weapon.

All my Tauroxes are glued with Missiles on the top... Am I going to be sad?

Requizen wrote:
All my Tauroxes are glued with Missiles on the top... Am I going to be sad?

I'm new to this edition of 40k, but no one I ever played with in the old days made a big deal of WYSIWYG as long as you clearly told them what things were and were willing to remind them later. We used to just swap army lists when I played WFB, and we helped each other remember what we had. But then I almost always played with friends or at least acquaintances I was on friendly terms with.

If you still have your turrets you could probably find a way to modify the Tauroxes to take them with a magnet. I'm quite liking the vehicle, other than the silly tracks. And I have wheels on order from Victoria miniatures to fix that. From a model perspective, GW really packed a lot of detail and options into a relatively simple model. I'm impressed.

I just gotta figure out what to do with these autocannons/volley guns.

 Aaranis wrote:

 argonak wrote:
My Tempestus Scion set just came in the mail. I'm going to make a Taurox Prime.

I haven't decided what to do about the autocannon and volley guns, I really don't like their placement on the side of the vehicle.

I plan on magnetizing it to switch between the battle cannon and the gatling gun, but I don't see much advantage in the missile launcher as an option, am I off base?

Well the missile launcher is quite expensive, and what it will do is normally better covered by the rest of your army so I'd stay out of it, don't expect your Taurox to live more than 2 turns if you want to unload your passengers in range for their weapons. 2d6 hits at 48" looks nice on paper but you could just have the cheaper Gatling that does 20 hits flat at 24". Your Taurox shouldn't be parked at 48" of your targets anyway, there's other units that do that job better. Use your Taurox as a saturation shooting platform after you disembarked your guys, because the pilots know it was a one-way trip so might as well use it to the fullest.

Yeah that's what I was figuring. I think with a little plasticard I can make a replacement roof and then magnetize it so it attaches to the existing roof. I just wasn't sure if it was worth the effort.

The Taurox missile launcher is a really good all purpose option paired with the autocannons. I think it's the best variant personally.

PUFNSTUF wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
If you guys have any superheavy questions I would be happy to answer them. Been running 3 tank companies for a while now and own all the variants!

I'd love to hear your thoughts on most of them. Ever run one with a Titan or dual heavies? I want to pick up one and run it with my Acheron.

My tank companies are 3 of the same tank for consistency, but mixed tank companies would actually be more competitive I believe.

I wouldn't run it with a Titan this edition; Titans are very expensive and in order to field three vehicles you'll need a ton of points; Baneblades and their variants are comparatively cheap. As for the Acheron - I think that'd be a fantastic aide to a few of the Baneblade platforms, such as Shadowswords, but generally Baneblades want to be in combat with hordes so perhaps bringing something to frighten off or distract enemy heavy anti-tank assets (rather than hordes) which the Baneblades themselves will have difficulty confronting by themselves would be good. For example, in the absence of a Shadowsword, a Porphyrion or a Atrapos would be awesome.

I will be using sentinels as a fast attack 'tax', minimalist scout sentinels or armoured with weapon upgrades ad if so, which?