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 ross-128 wrote:
One thing I was thinking of was having an array of 4-5 searchlights to support it. Only one searchlight would actually support the Shadowsword at a time, the others would support the rest of the army until the one supporting the Shadowsword dies. Since they're only 20 points each, and the "backups" are still supporting other units while they wait, they should be able to get their value back easily.

It seems like a waste. You roll the kill point mission and you lose. You are also going to lose first blood every game.

 Trickstick wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
One thing I was thinking of was having an array of 4-5 searchlights to support it. Only one searchlight would actually support the Shadowsword at a time, the others would support the rest of the army until the one supporting the Shadowsword dies. Since they're only 20 points each, and the "backups" are still supporting other units while they wait, they should be able to get their value back easily.

It seems like a waste. You roll the kill point mission and you lose. You are also going to lose first blood every game.

Cant win every scenario or army. And Sabres come in squadrons, you can deploy up to 3 independent sabres per turn. Also I personally use Ratlings so I'm always going first 30% time .

Edit: when talking about Sabres, I personally have been thinking of using massive amount of 6x3 searchlights. 4-5 is still easy to kill but almost no army has firepower to silence 18 of them since they are single units. Overkill? A bit. Overkill when rest of your army is plasmarusses/basilisks/superheavies? Dont think so.

 Trickstick wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
One thing I was thinking of was having an array of 4-5 searchlights to support it. Only one searchlight would actually support the Shadowsword at a time, the others would support the rest of the army until the one supporting the Shadowsword dies. Since they're only 20 points each, and the "backups" are still supporting other units while they wait, they should be able to get their value back easily.

It seems like a waste. You roll the kill point mission and you lose. You are also going to lose first blood every game.

That's pretty much going to be the fate of playing Imperial Guard in general. IG will always basically auto-lose kill points, and whoever goes first will always get first blood. So I see no reason to worry about either, they're a foregone conclusion.

If you want to win kill-point missions and reliably get first blood, play Knights. Imperial Guard just has to write those things off.

 ross-128 wrote:
That's pretty much going to be the fate of playing Imperial Guard in general. IG will always basically auto-lose kill points, and whoever goes first will always get first blood. So I see no reason to worry about either, they're a foregone conclusion.

If you want to win kill-point missions and reliably get first blood, play Knights. Imperial Guard just has to write those things off.

I've been musing on an IG "finish deployment first while still brigading" type lists. How much efficiency would you loose if you loaded most things up in Stormlords and Valkyries and minimized other drops, I wonder.

 Aesthete wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
That's pretty much going to be the fate of playing Imperial Guard in general. IG will always basically auto-lose kill points, and whoever goes first will always get first blood. So I see no reason to worry about either, they're a foregone conclusion.

If you want to win kill-point missions and reliably get first blood, play Knights. Imperial Guard just has to write those things off.

I've been musing on an IG "finish deployment first while still brigading" type lists. How much efficiency would you loose if you loaded most things up in Stormlords and Valkyries and minimized other drops, I wonder.

Honestly, I don't know. It sure would make your army mobile though. Since Vendettas have a capacity of 12 now they might be better transport options than Valkyries, especially since Valkyries pay 130 points for their base model, Vendettas pay 110, but both have to pay for all of their weapons. Which means the Valkyrie isn't getting anything for those 20 extra points.

Also the Stormlord will probably single-handedly give you all the anti-infantry you could ever ask for, so the Vendetta's anti-tank would complement it better.

 Aesthete wrote:

I've been musing on an IG "finish deployment first while still brigading" type lists. How much efficiency would you loose if you loaded most things up in Stormlords and Valkyries and minimized other drops, I wonder.

I keep contemplating the Vendetta for this. They're expensive, but gonna be so much more durable than HWS and they'll actually DO something other than moving units around, unlike the Valkyrie.

Quick question guys - do you think an infantry-only IG list could work if it used elite infantry (like Veterans and Scions) in place of Infantry Squads?

 vipoid wrote:
Quick question guys - do you think an infantry-only IG list could work if it used elite infantry (like Veterans and Scions) in place of Infantry Squads?

I think so. I would use Conscripts and Scions as troops, and look at Veterans to provide las/plas fire. It's easy to point to HWSs for anti-tank, but in a pure all infantry list, all of the enemy heavy wepaons will be pointed at the HWSs, and most of them will never fire. A lascannon buried with 10 wounds is a lot safer.

Is it worth upgrading sentinels to lascannons or missile launchers? Or are they too fragile for the point cost of the weapon?

 argonak wrote:
Is it worth upgrading sentinels to lascannons or missile launchers? Or are they too fragile for the point cost of the weapon?

They are alright if you want an armoured sentinel to provide long range fire and not move. You trade points for durability. I will probably give lascannon armoured sentinels a go at some point.

 argonak wrote:
Is it worth upgrading sentinels to lascannons or missile launchers? Or are they too fragile for the point cost of the weapon?

I would say probably not, although there are certainly those that disagree. A sentinel is basically the same price as an infantry squad, which is far more durable against anti-tank weapons, but more fragile to volume shooting. Sentinels don't' have a great damage output no matter what you do, so basically I would use them mostly to protect flanks from deepstrikers. The Heavy Flamer takes advantage of the sentinels speed, while Lascannons have the range to not need to move much.

On the flip side, in a vehicle heavy list, Sentinels will likely not be the focus of heavy weapons, and can be a good platform for lascannons.

 Polonius wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Is it worth upgrading sentinels to lascannons or missile launchers? Or are they too fragile for the point cost of the weapon?

I would say probably not, although there are certainly those that disagree. A sentinel is basically the same price as an infantry squad, which is far more durable against anti-tank weapons, but more fragile to volume shooting. Sentinels don't' have a great damage output no matter what you do, so basically I would use them mostly to protect flanks from deepstrikers. The Heavy Flamer takes advantage of the sentinels speed, while Lascannons have the range to not need to move much.

My issue with this is that Heavy Flamers leave Sentinels completely open to assault (due to their short range). And given how awful Sentinels are in combat, this allows an enemy unit to easily lock them down.

I think I'd rather take a long-range weapon even if doing so limits my movement.

Am I right to think dozer blades have gone?

Dozer blades do seem to be gone, along with camo netting and searchlights (outside of Saber battery searchlights).

I really hope some or all of those wargear options come back in the codex, I'm really missing them.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about searchlight sabres but what about gun sabres? Lascannons, Autocannons, Heavy Stubbers etc.

My Autocannon ones were okay in 7th against flyers but now that twinlinking thing is gone they should be quite scary versus Fly things.

Sabres are t4 3w 4+ and their twin heavy weapons cost as much as more durable platforms. They die so fast so weapons are not worth it.

Yeah, I definitely think they're too fragile to be putting weapons on. I think if I wanted a turret-based alternative to a HWS, I'd go with the tarantula turrets for their 10-point bases (though their need to target the closest unit is certainly a downside). HWS, or perhaps better HWT embedded in an infantry squad, are probably more competitive than either turret option for heavy weapons.

A Saber searchlight paired with a hydra battery might make good AA though, it'd shift the Hydra from 3/4/5 (fly/zoom/ground) to 2/3/4, and your opponent would have to choose between shooting the searchlight or the hydra.

I think mixed weapon HWS might be a good compromise. Mortars are only 4.5 points per wound. In a 2 mortar 1 lascannon team, you'd have to lose 6 wounds to lose the cannon.

Best way to look at it is 120 pts gets you 20 dudes with 2 cannons or 126 points gets you 18 wounds with 3 cannons which also might not need a commisar due to low model count... oh and 6 mortars that can fire even if they're hiding in your backfield.

A few questions for some people in-the-know:

Are Taurox Primes useful in numbers, and if so or if not, what vehicles would you complement them with?

And would you kit out some of your Scions with Hot Shot Volley guns or just straight plasma/melta?

Taurox prime is one of the best anti-orde not only in the IG army, but in the entire game.
Volley + gatling + storm is only 98 pts, highly mobile and fairly resistant for less than 100 points, and even shooting heavy weapons after moving it can put the damage in médium and light infantry, just what an army of elite scions with plasma need, resistance and anti orde

Oh man... after reading this thread, I realized that I should be spending even more points on my Shadowsword and finding some way to make a Salamander (since they don't seem to be up on the FW website)?

A griffon can be a good starting point for a salamander conversion, since a salamander is more or less a griffon with an autocannon instead of a mortar.

 ross-128 wrote:
A griffon can be a good starting point for a salamander conversion, since a salamander is more or less a griffon with an autocannon instead of a mortar.

The command one now has a heavy flamer, but I guess that's close enough?

er... I don't think they sell those either.

Mavnas wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
A griffon can be a good starting point for a salamander conversion, since a salamander is more or less a griffon with an autocannon instead of a mortar.

The command one now has a heavy flamer, but I guess that's close enough?

er... I don't think they sell those either.

Both of them are discontinued. Shame really, but they don't have the capacity to produce everything and with the HH being the success it is, old stuff had to go. I would have liked to pick up another 2 Griffons.

While expensive, putting a trojan support vehicle and a salamander command vehicle next to a shadowsword with full sponsons(but with twin heavy bolters ) might work well actually. it will hit on 3+(2+ against titanic foes) and reroll misses upon that, or perhaps you could save 100 points and just use one of thoose to just reroll misses, might perhaps be better points wise.

Trying to come up with a "core" of a TAC list ar 1500. The idea is that I can either slide additional units in, change the loadout, or both for larger games. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome!


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [1500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Ratlings [63pts]
. 9x Ratling: 9x Sniper Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [ 220pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [27pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [ 72pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [534pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

 ThePie wrote:
While expensive, putting a trojan support vehicle and a salamander command vehicle next to a shadowsword with full sponsons(but with twin heavy bolters ) might work well actually. it will hit on 3+(2+ against titanic foes) and reroll misses upon that, or perhaps you could save 100 points and just use one of thoose to just reroll misses, might perhaps be better points wise.

I was thinking of using Harker to save a few points. He's just as good against Titanic units when reroll 1s is the same as reroll all misses. I figure that's the only time the volcano cannon really, really needs to hit. I think with a CP to reroll the number of attacks, it can probably take out any vehicle somewhat reliably at 3+, reroll 1s. He's easier to hide too.

Nice core list! If you have tried H Flamers on russes I would recommend it! 1 of my standard russes will always have x3 H Flamers.

I pretty much will always include a heavy weapon in my infantry squads. Particularly a missile launcher. It's versatile to fire at vehicles and monster and do d6 damage with -2 or fire at infantry with d6 shots. Now that heavy weapons hit on 5's if they move I usually advance my squads.

The core to my army is:
30conscripts at the front. Followed by 3-4 infantry squads each with vox, melta and missile launcher.
I have 2 commanders and 2 commissars to hold the whole group together.
There's also a command squad with standard, vox and 2 plasma.
This infantry core has played 6 games this edition and advanced forward every game. It hasn't been destroyed or beaten yet.

I am limited to using Sentinels to fill the fast attack slots in my current list (infantry only, in so far as that is possible, and I have always hated the concept of rough riders).

So scout or armoured sentinels and what should they be armed with?

I am planning on using armoured with an autocannon and a hunter killer missile. This does make them 1 point more than a lascannon variant which would have a much better sustained damage output but as they are the only vehicles in the entire list should I just accept their swift demise and take the multilaser scout variant to minimise the cost?

Is the Command Salamander a Fast Attack or an Elite?