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quick head math, chimera's are about 5 inches wide, x19 divide and carry thats 7.9 feet worth of board edge you could cover>

It'd be like playing spearhead without the formations, i'd hate to see what you could put together at 2500.

2500 would be basically just as scary. Infinite transport choices is brutal.

The real nerf is when 6th ed comes out and invalidates razorback spam lists and all the WAAC players are stuck with 20 razors

The Chimera variants are inherently stronger than the Razorback versions, and I say this as an owner of 9 painted Lasbacks.

Too bad it won't really matter all that much, since all of it is due to a special character which will be banned at every single competitive tournament out there.

I was under the impression that you could only have 1 henchmen squad for each Inquisitor. Making that list impossible.

Even if I am incorrect (which is very possible, so many pages on so many forums in so many days @_@ ) I would think taking Cortez would only allow you to make up to 6 Henchmen warbands scoring. Making them troops WITH a limit seems like a more logical choice.

Sentai_Sage wrote:I was under the impression that you could only have 1 henchmen squad for each Inquisitor. Making that list impossible.

Even if I am incorrect (which is very possible, so many pages on so many forums in so many days @_@ ) I would think taking Cortez would only allow you to make up to 6 Henchmen warbands scoring. Making them troops WITH a limit seems like a more logical choice.

This would certainly curb the chimera army from hell list.

Could someone please elaborate further on the whole Coteaz/Inquisitor/Henchmen/Dedicated transport deal?

Specifically...
Is there any restriction on henchmen squads? Or is it just "they become troops"?
Is there a limit on henchmen squads per inquisitor?
Can henchmen take dedicated transports?

ph34r wrote:Can henchmen take dedicated transports?

Mwa ha ha! They called me mad when I took 2 whirlwinds in my Space marine list. Now look. LOOK! Behold your monster melta squads die in DROVES as my large blast templates blast you!

Mwa ha ha!

Mwa... ha... Yeah, they probably do. I don't think anyone else can take Chimeras, in fact.

Cerebrium wrote:

KOS wrote:... but the Jokaero ... what are they thinking on making Xenos as a choice for the Imperium ? They supposed to be the guys that hate everything wich is not human... instead they still hate Xenos but use them to their own advantage.

... making a rule like this (if true) means that the Inquisition largely accepts that Xenos to work for Humanity... this is clear heresy.

The Inquisition have always used Jokaero because they're not hostile to the Imperium, and make better technology than the Imperium ever could. Hell, remember, some Inquisitors use DAEMONHOSTS.

Even though the Imperium "hates" Xenos, the Imperium draws distinctions between types of Xenos. It would appear that Imperiums concern is mostly with the sentient aliens or aliens that impose immediate threats. In multiple instances its been stated that the Imperium uses xenos-beasts of burden, so its obvious that the Imperiums hatred isn't unconditional. I think the Imperium's perspective on Jokaero would largely be like that, regarded as animals with instinctual inteligence.

At the same time you must also consider that a common theme of the Inquisition is the hubris of radicals believing they can control particular threats to use them against the Imperiums enemies. So that Jokaero is as much a representation of Radical Ordo Xenos as the Daemonhost is of Radical Ordo Malleus.

Sentai_Sage wrote:

ph34r wrote:Can henchmen take dedicated transports?

Mwa ha ha! They called me mad when I took 2 whirlwinds in my Space marine list. Now look. LOOK! Behold your monster melta squads die in DROVES as my large blast templates blast you!

Monster melta squads? I don't think anyone in this thread has seriously mentioned large squads of troops all wielding special weapons on foot. In fact, the exact opposite is true, small squads of troops in transports. I think if they could not take transports, people would probably still take small squads.

Ahaha, I dont understand why everyone is so damn excited about "henchmen", I mean, they are really turning into "wenchmen" at this stage, with all the transport whoring going on.

I am excited for the actual power armoured uber troops, not the super crappy spam troops. Wheres the GK spirit people?

Jaon wrote:Ahaha, I dont understand why everyone is so damn excited about "henchmen", I mean, they are really turning into "wenchmen" at this stage, with all the transport whoring going on.

I am excited for the actual power armoured uber troops, not the super crappy spam troops. Wheres the GK spirit people?

Because its the only infantry choice for a 'Pure' Inquisition army. I'm not all that fond of GK; unless its for a Malleus army.

I EXTREMELY doubt that people will be able to fill more then the standard 17 slots, only 1 other army can do this (well 2 if you count spawn spam from C;CD) and even that one has HUGE limiting factors (if all your icons die, all those X units of Daemons become useless).

Will you be able to fill your 6 troop slots with Henchmen with Cortez? sure! But something tells me that the rule will look more along the lines of...

Cortez:

FOC multiplier: If Cortez is Fielded, You may take Inquisitorial Hench Men squads as troops.

There is probably a seperate Special Rule under Inquisitors (including Cortez) that allows you to take an Inquisitorial Henchmen squad as either a Retinue, or a seperate unit (that the Inquisitor is auto joined to at start of battle) that does not eat of a FOC slot.

So at most you are probably gonna get...

HQ: Cortez + Henchmen Squad

HQ: Other Inquisitor lord((which means 0 libararians and no stern)) + Henchman squad

Elite: Ordo X Inquisitor + Henchman squad

Elite: Ordo X Inquisitor + Henchman squad

Elite: Ordo X Inquisitor + Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

Troop: Henchman squad

which isnt nearly as scary as 20+ henchmen squads (its actually closer to half that amount, which honestly, if they are gonna take that list instead of the other scary stuff GKs have to offer.)

I mean, it would still be funny as hell to have the above list + 3 Storm Ravens and 3 DreadKnights, but even that is limited... you would basically be playing Guard without Orders!

The question is, if they work like lesser deamons from C:CSM then wouldn't you have to take two "standard" Troops choice as it has been stated they do not take up a FOC slot?

alphaomega wrote:The question is, if they work like lesser deamons from C:CSM then wouldn't you have to take two "standard" Troops choice as it has been stated they do not take up a FOC slot?

Again, I have my extreme doubts that they will work exactally like lesser Daemons or even Chaos Spawn as while GW is prone to F'Ups, they typically don't make the same "Giagantic F'up" twice (see the "toned down" rules for Incubi vs that of the Bloodtalon!)

Or you can run the paladin spam into the tanks and laugh.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

alphaomega wrote:The question is, if they work like lesser deamons from C:CSM then wouldn't you have to take two "standard" Troops choice as it has been stated they do not take up a FOC slot?

Again, I have my extreme doubts that they will work exactally like lesser Daemons or even Chaos Spawn as while GW is prone to F'Ups, they typically don't make the same "Giagantic F'up" twice (see the "toned down" rules for Incubi vs that of the Bloodtalon!)

I do agree.
But I can see this being a possibility too. Just because the options to have 3 weaponsmiths and 3 henchmen with meltas in transport is going to be game breaking to an extent. That is if henchmen squads can take a transport. That option may be for Inquisitors only.

I'm liking those lists. Finally; pure Inquisition armies with some teeth.

Teeth is one thing. 17 Razorbacks is something slowed altogether.

I think I'd just walk away from the table and look for a game with someone who *isnt* a douchebag to game with... and I'll be fielding GK myself!

alphaomega wrote: That is if henchmen squads can take a transport. That option may be for Inquisitors only.

this brings up a very good point, it may be something like:

If a inquisitor takes a unit of Inquititorial henchmen he may also take a Dedicated Transport.

If the above clause is included (and will likely be based on how other similar units work) then everyones "Razor-spam" lists are wasted data on the interwebs!

~DAR

I have half a mind to try Cortaez's Barrel of Monkeys. How many Jokaero could be fit into a 2,000 list, at minimum squad size?

Random list because I am a fan of the psycannon

HQ
Grand Master
Mordrak w/8 ghost knights w/ ward staves and 2 psycannons

TROOP
10 man Strike force 2 psycannon
10 man Strike force 2 psycannon
10 man Strike force 2 psycannon

HEAVY
5 man Purgation 4 psycannons
5 man Purgation 4 psycannons
5 man Purgation 4 psycannons

2000 points (may be over by a point or so) was quick math

Just saw all the razor knight lists and thougt it would be funny if my list got the first turn...

by no means do i consider this a very competative list...

shrike wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Jokearo apething weaponsmith .. horrible stats.. all weaponsmiths in same unit must use same weapon, but may fire either lascannon, heavy flamer or MM.. Before game roll 1 d6 +1 for each additional weaponsmith.. Gives either Rending, +12" range, +1 armor save, 5+ invul save, or lets you roll twice and apply both results to entire unit.. cost of a SM rhino

so GK are employing superintelligent ape weaponsmiths? Oh, come on...

Even worse, they're superintelligent ape weaponsmiths that appear to have been hanging around with the Obliterator cults.

how much was it said teleport packs were for troops?

This thread is too long. It's getting impossible to find anything....

Anything new to speak of?

Not sure...just excited to build some cc oriented inquisitor mobs that actually work...gks are shooty...always meant to be a shooty army...they guys have stormbolters on their arms...wondering if their meta is going to shift...

Every way i run it...the points only allow for a certain amount of spamming before you begin to hinder yourself...the army has indeed been made super elite...in in my precursor list building i have come to realize that grey knights are not going to change in how difficult they are to play.

Right now each PAGK is 25 points...so make d*** sure you don't let a single guy die if you can help it. Playing more intelligently than the opponent has always been a necessity to win in GKs and I don't think this is going to change. All of these bandwagon-ers are going to realize this quick as they aren't used to GK tactica and let their 70 point superterminators die on the spot.

As for Paladins...to run them you will need to back them up with henchmen mobs...strike forces are just too expensive to fulfill the troop requirements.

Wondering if deamonhosts are heretical forces only and dont allow GKs to be taken...

You raise a good point Ductcvader. When I expanded from my Eldar to GK's originally, I thought.. "Finally.. Some dudes who can take some punishment and keep on going."

Thats when I realized that their high PPM made them even more elite than my Eldar, and considerably harder to play.

Balance wrote:Even worse, they're superintelligent ape weaponsmiths that appear to have been hanging around with the Obliterator cults.

Well, they were here first.

Our joy Obliterapes from space!

Still from the rumours there are looking some nasty power builds.

Still I am curious about the Techmarine and Brother-champion.

aka_mythos wrote:

Balance wrote:Even worse, they're superintelligent ape weaponsmiths that appear to have been hanging around with the Obliterator cults.

Well, they were here first.

Fair enough, although I had never heard them having presto-changeo weapons before now...

I am seeing Paladins as more of a novelty...they're super anti-troop units and you might as well take crowe's purifiers...

If you want the terminator blob...get mordrak...the terminators are in their face first turn and when you take some psycannons into side or rear armor...fun...sure to destroy dev squads.

The dreadknight at 205 points...allows you to triple up on these and breath easy (in terms of all your opponent's heavy weapon priorities) and then take some standard strike forces with psycannons/purifiers with halberds.

LRs are going to be less common in this army than ever before. The way of the water warrior has not passed...but it's mode of transport has most definitely changed...rhinos, stormravens, and especially teleport packs are going to be well worth their points...the packs especially with a water warrior approach

Samus_aran115 wrote:This thread is too long. It's getting impossible to find anything....

Anything new to speak of?

Define "New", the OP seems to be pretty spot on with editing/updating the original post to contain "verified" new info, with the execption of pictures, which is noted on page 19.

The only major developments have been potential lists, which to be honest, is the best use of a rumor thread (IMO, until the codex comes out, any "Psudo-Meta-Gaming" such as List Building and weighting Strengths and Weaknesses would be considered "rumors"). I only wish the DE thread was as "knowledge-rich" as this one!

~DAR

Aye, I agree. Paladins are going to be a total novelty unit. With such a massive PPM cost, they're going to be the target of every melta, plasma and lascannon on the board, and you can only pass so many 2+ saves.


I'm still going with my full =][= army. It will obviously be a bit less douche-y than the Chimspam-from-hell list though

I've always loved Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, so I'll need to make at least a few of my henchmen squads into them.

So happy to (hopefully) see the return of Inquisitor Retinues. Useful and feels really fluff-accurate.