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Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Brave man bringing an avatar NuhJuhKuh! I like the list and it's themed very well.

You'll have to let me know how you get on with your Dark Reapers, especially as you're lacking guide and doom for more rerolls.

On my side, I decided to bring the double patrol list to my game (a few posts above) and ended up playing against mass daemon engine Word Bearers. His list threw up some issues to do with a lack of high strength weapons, as I didn't really have enough in the list to deal with a Discolord, maulerfiend, forgefiend, a rhino and two venomcrawlers.

The mission was Rise of the Machine Spirit from the grand tournament mission pack and I chose bring it down, engage on all fronts and deploy scramblers as secondaries and he picked engage on all fronts, raise the banners and bring it down.

I realised by my turn one that bring it down was a bad move against his list, as I didn't have the best tools to deal with his daemon engines, and his masters of possessions were extremely good at buffing their invulnerable saves and providing them with rerolls. Something other than bring it down would have been much better.

He managed to get a turn one charge charge off with his warptimed maulerfiend and make an 11 inch charge into one of my falcons and pop it after other units had plinked a few wounds off it. The other falcon got reduced to one wound and effectively neutered it for the remainder of its life. My turn one was underwhelming, the disadvantage of getting charged turn one, failing to deny his psychic powers and generally poor rolling put me on the back foot. I made the mistake of charging his discolord with my shining spears, who I'd protected and quickened to cause a bit of chaos and doomed the discolord. I managed to get it down to three wounds, but a 3++ was hard to get past, even with shots from the CHE, laser lances and the extra attacks from Hunters of Ancient Relics. If I was smarter, I'd have gone for his other daemon engines as I would have more reliably killed at least one of those off.

In turn two, he knocked 10 wounds (I failed 5, 4+ armour saves) off my CHE with a forgefiend and cleaned it up with a squad of havocs. Needless to say, I didn't have board control and getting him shifted off objecitves was tough going but when I got to my turn 2, I focused on forcing the objective game by dropping in the hawks and scorpions in his deployment zone, and the warp spiders in my own to start deploy scramblers and guarantee engage on all fronts.

I managed to start turning the game in turn 3 by dragging my opponent off objectives or contesting the ones I couldn't shift him off. By turns 4 and 5, I was scoring 15 points for the primaries while maxing engage on all fronts and giving him 0 points for the primaries.

The game ended with a win for me, scoring 77 points to his 65. It was fun, but had I picked some other secondary over bring it down, I would have likely scored more points. It was my fault in turn one for even giving him the opportunity to make a charge with any of his units on turn one, and that would have likely made the game a bigger win for me.

In terms of the units I ran, the war walkers with the AML/Starcannon combo were excellent, providing decent fire and eating his troops and an obliterator and knocking the last four wounds off a venomcrawler and knocking wounds off a rhino. For 75 points, the fire they took and the points they killed made them completely worth it by the end of the game. I actually really liked the Scorpions, Hawks and Warp Spiders. For their cost, they were essential in achieving scramblers, engage on all fronts, helping to shift marines off objectives and in general, being a nuisance for my opponent. The fire dragons were okay, two of them died when getting out of the falcon when it went down turn one, but they did help against the vehicles and plinked a few wounds off a few things before they died. I misplayed with the spears, I shouldn't have charged the discolord turn one, so they were an expensive loss.

I'll probably need to play some more games with the list to work out some of the kinks, but so far, it did what I want by getting an easy 25 secondary points in engage and scramblers.

   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





Sounds like a hard fought but well earned win.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thought I'd share this list, it's 4-0 on TTS against ultramarines, salamanders, black legion plus a knight and ad mech. Toughest game was against as mech, I went first and went aggressive taking out two squads of breachers and one balistari, in return I lost seven vypers and a falcon and I was pretty worried! Second turn though I picked up two squads of balistari and the rest of his breachers that only really left him with three of the Scorpius tanks and I ground him out in the end.
Normally I move the vypers and wraithlord/seerss aggressively, putting as much pressure on the midfield as I can. The falcons cover backfield. I usually take mental interrogation and engage on all fronts plus hopefully a kill objective. But the list is great for primary, it shoots and outlasts better than most, so I start ok and usually begin maxing primary turn three onwards.
A proper Ork horde would be worrying, I've got 70ish shuriken shots but against 120 boys that will start struggling.


++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [68 PL, 9CP, 1,205pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment CP [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 140pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Warlord
. The Phoenix Gem

Wraithseer [7 PL, 135pts]: Bright Lance

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [9 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Vypers [9 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 130pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [8 PL, 130pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [8 PL, 130pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 70pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [44 PL, -3CP, 795pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment CP [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Wraithseer [7 PL, 135pts]: Bright Lance

Wraithseer [7 PL, 135pts]: Bright Lance

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [9 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Wraithlord [7 PL, 120pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult

Wraithlord [7 PL, 120pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult

Wraithlord [7 PL, 120pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [112 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/28 11:55:43


 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




@Tyranid Horde - well played! It can be demoralizing to take an early beating, but looks like you stuck to your plan and it paid off. Out of interest, do you think you could have achieved “Scramblers” and “Engage” with Rangers instead of the Aspect Warriors?

@Kingheff - that’s an interesting list! How do you find the, erm, 8th Edition level of starting CPs? When I’m building lists I tend to stick with single Battalions or Patrols because I don’t like the idea of starting with less than the maximum... but in my last game I ended with 4/5 unspent! What do you typically spend your CPs on?

I was hoping to play my next game this Saturday, but current government advice is to limit social contacts while Nurgle’s Rot is in resurgence, so waiting a few weeks before the “best of three” match. By then the new Marine Codex will be out, but I’ll be keeping my list because that’s how I roll!

Very roughly, my battleplan will involve:
>marching the Avatar behind the Wraithblades, hopefully drawing lots of firepower, but also eventually getting stuck into some power armour with his big-arse sword
>Maughan Ra + friends will deploy inside the Wave Serpent to protect them if I get second turn, but once they get a good spot to “fire and fade” from they’ll do their thing! The only other time I’ve played them, I had them next to my Farseer who had the “Natural Leader” trait I.e. innate Guide - hopefully re-rolling 1s from M-Ra will do something similar (as well as look cool)
>Guardians will camp out on my backfield Objectives, getting off cheeky Starstrike missiles and Celestial Shields as needed.
>Rangers and Spiders start in reserve, and go for maximum annoyance when they arrive
>Spears will also start off the table, and will use “Court of the Young King” + “Swooping Dive” to increase the odds of a successful charge out of deep strike. If I can place them near the Avatar too that’ll be gravy
>Seer Council will hide out of LOS (not a character!) and use strat that doubles range on Runes of Battle to get one key spell off a turn from relative safety. Protect on the Wraithblades or Shielded guardians will obviously be good, but so will Quicken on Spears, Blades or even Reapers. I’ve never used a Seer council before, but wanted to try this tactic after reading about it earlier in this thread
>Wraithlord can work independently or in support of other pieces - it’ll do well with Avatar and ‘blades I think, but equally well holding an objective either.

This should be a less one-sided affair than last game (hopefully not so far in the other direction!), and will look cool with the Avatar present! Haven’t decided on my secondaries yet, but sure I’ve at least three weeks to figure that out...
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





@Nuh Honestly, my list doesn't need many cp. My main ones are matchless agility and fire and fade for when I need to push something, usually a wraithlord, far forward turn one. Jumping forward 21" with a wraithlord is fun.
Your tactics seem solid, I'd definitely try to drop the spears close enough to the avatar if you can, with court of the young king it's a great buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not sure which warlord trait you chose but falcons swiftness is nice for the avatar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/29 06:16:37


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Do you give him wings as well?
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




 kingheff wrote:
@Nuh Honestly, my list doesn't need many cp. My main ones are matchless agility and fire and fade for when I need to push something, usually a wraithlord, far forward turn one. Jumping forward 21" with a wraithlord is fun.
Your tactics seem solid, I'd definitely try to drop the spears close enough to the avatar if you can, with court of the young king it's a great buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not sure which warlord trait you chose but falcons swiftness is nice for the avatar.


*furiously checks codex*
Huh - I could have SWORN Matchless Agility & Fire and Fade were infantry-keyword only! That’s a good tip, thanks!

Yes, Avatar has Falcon’s Swiftness, and I’ll be using Matckless Agility on the Wraithblades to make sure they keep up

However, nobody has any relics because no one can take them - Avatar has the Wailing Doom already, Maighan Ra has the Maugetar, and the Warlocks aren’t characters :( Ideally I’d give the Warlocks the Spiriti Stone of Unpronounceable Space-elf Sadness, but alas they’re a unit and not eligible.
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I'm pretty sure that the Avatar can take a relic. He's not a named character and therefore eligible for one as far as I can tell.

I just checked and the Avatar can not take the wings since it is infantry only and he's a monster. According to the official FAQ the Avatar is not a named character. (4th Question)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/29 20:36:53


 
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User





Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the Avatar can take a relic. He's not a named character and therefore eligible for one as far as I can tell.

I just checked and the Avatar can not take the wings since it is infantry only and he's a monster. According to the official FAQ the Avatar is not a named character. (4th Question)


The FAQ for Craftworlds says the following:

Page 122 – Remnants of Glory
Change the second sentence of the first paragraph to read:

‘Avatars of Khaine and named characters such as Prince Yriel already have one or more artefacts, and cannot be given any of the following items.’

so no, the Avatar cannot be given any relics.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





What do you think the status of wraithseers with wraith cannons is? The points cost of a wraith cannon is 0 according to the field manual. I may swap out the bright lances on my seers and save 60 PTS...

 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




MasterAO wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the Avatar can take a relic. He's not a named character and therefore eligible for one as far as I can tell.

I just checked and the Avatar can not take the wings since it is infantry only and he's a monster. According to the official FAQ the Avatar is not a named character. (4th Question)


The FAQ for Craftworlds says the following:

Page 122 – Remnants of Glory
Change the second sentence of the first paragraph to read:

‘Avatars of Khaine and named characters such as Prince Yriel already have one or more artefacts, and cannot be given any of the following items.’

so no, the Avatar cannot be given any relics.


Ah, I missed that they specified that the Avatar can not be given a relic under the remnant rule. The FAQ does however, say that he is not a named character. Which, I guess, means that he is not limited in his Warlord Trait selection. I can't think of anything else that named/unnamed makes a difference in how it is applied.

My apologies for not reading carefully enough.
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I think that also means you can get a grizzled Avatar in a Crusade campaign?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Oaka wrote:
I think that also means you can get a grizzled Avatar in a Crusade campaign?


Grizzled is an infantry option. Avatar is a monster. Different traits list.

Monster equivalent on the chart is counting AP-1 attacks against them as AP0
   
Made in us
Mounted Kroot Tracker







I meant the Avatar can gain experience in Crusade, I didn't know there was an actual grizzled rule.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Oaka wrote:
I meant the Avatar can gain experience in Crusade, I didn't know there was an actual grizzled rule.


Haha oh, yeh there is. Its a battle honor. Gives the unit a 6+ fnp
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

That looks like a really fun list Kingheff, I'm actually picking up some vypers on eBay as they look like excellent platforms for their points and the extra shuriken shots is a big help with hordes.

@NuhJuhKuh, you could definitely use your rangers to do actions like scramblers, their natural deepstrike is great for that if you don't mind giving up their character targeting abilities for a turn. They're also more durable than the average aspect warrior so they're tough to shift if you're doing anything like teleport homers.

   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





I've been on the vypers hype train for a while, they're just great value for the points. Not being able to double up with heavy weapons is a bit of a shame but for the speed and fly it's not a big enough problem to bother me unduly.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 kingheff wrote:
I've been on the vypers hype train for a while, they're just great value for the points. Not being able to double up with heavy weapons is a bit of a shame but for the speed and fly it's not a big enough problem to bother me unduly.

Remember that heavy bolters will get an improved profile with D2 rendering light tanks useless as soon as they get targeted.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

War walkers will probably beat out Vypers if heavy bolters become a viable option thanks to their extra toughness.

   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





I think there's great value in both personally. There's not a lot between them defensively, better toughness and invulnerable Vs buffing potential and better save. Baseline, from 12 heavy bolter shots with no buffs, war walkers take 3.56 wounds and vypers 4 wounds so not a lot in it.

 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Solid bit of maths there, which is a great help to my conscience as I've been trawling eBay for some Vypers to try out myself!

Bit late to the party, but this was an interesting read and shows you the state of Eldar (not you space clowns) and how they're doing.
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-october-2020-40k-meta-review/


   
Made in es
Swift Swooping Hawk





Just a little Heads up that we got a new FAQ with upgraded weapons.

Nothing exciting (power swords and flamer upgrades as expected) aside the Dragon's Breath of Fire dragons Exarch boosted up to range 12" as a Heavy flamer but our Fusion guns aren't considered Melta weapons so they remain equal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:26:50


 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Solid bit of maths there, which is a great help to my conscience as I've been trawling eBay for some Vypers to try out myself!

Bit late to the party, but this was an interesting read and shows you the state of Eldar (not you space clowns) and how they're doing.
https://www.goonhammer.com/the-october-2020-40k-meta-review/



Yeah, definitely looking like a struggle for craftworlds at the moment. It's hard to balance not giving away secondary objectives because pretty much all of our good units are vehicles and the infantry is expensive and fragile.

 
   
Made in de
Boosting Black Templar Biker




It's not only the bring it down, it's also a need for squishy psykers which allows for even more secondaries...
So, is it finally time? Have we suffered enough for the sins of 7th?





 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





I know we're the worst of the main factions in competitive 9th so far, even necrons are outperforming us!

 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Feels like 5th edition Craftworlds all over again!

It was interesting to read that the go to secondaries for Harlies are engage on all fronts and deploy scramblers, two secondaries I managed to max out in my last game. I guess craftworlds can achieve a budget version of what harlies can do without having to soup in with harlies.

I think there is still some wiggle room in there for the less represented factions to develop some competitive lists that can make a stab at maxing out at least two secondaries and win unfavoured game that way. That being said, pure Craftworlds has a horrific win rate so maybe that's a pipe dream.


   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





I think craftworlds can be good but I think the builds need refining. I think we need to focus on long range shooting first then moving out when it's safe to do so. Alternatively focusing on heavier units that can shrug off the mid range firepower/melee threat of marines. That's my approach at the moment and it's been working well. Had to drop my three wraithseers unfortunately, I know I'll give away max bring it down points but adding on max abhor the witch points as well meant that I have to dominate primary. So far it's worked well but against something that just spams troops on objectives I'd really struggle.

 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I'm going through a list building process and I'm thinking of including 3 Walkers and 3 Wraithlords in my list. But, I've come upon a quandry. I have 6 of each type of heavy weapon and I'd like to avoid having to find bits to outfit my army. With that in mind how would you arm the 6 figures?

I'm thinking of giving the WL flamers and a glaive as a base (but I'm not totally sold on the glaives). The list will also include 3 D-cannons so it's not mandatory to have all anti-vehicle weapons. Also I'm trying to make this an all comers list.

Thanks for your input
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm going through a list building process and I'm thinking of including 3 Walkers and 3 Wraithlords in my list. But, I've come upon a quandry. I have 6 of each type of heavy weapon and I'd like to avoid having to find bits to outfit my army. With that in mind how would you arm the 6 figures?

I'm thinking of giving the WL flamers and a glaive as a base (but I'm not totally sold on the glaives). The list will also include 3 D-cannons so it's not mandatory to have all anti-vehicle weapons. Also I'm trying to make this an all comers list.

Thanks for your input



So you have 6 of every weapon, and you have 12 slots to fill? (2 for each walker, 2 for each lord).

6x starcannons is pretty much gonna be the best starting point.

I'd probably then say 6x missile launchers, as that gives you both anti-tank and anti-horde.

Brightlance probably not worth it compared to missiles.

Scatter lasers might be good if you expect to face more infantry/hordes than vehicles, and they're cheaper than missiles.

   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Which system would you place on which base? Originally I was thinking 6 star cannons on the walkers and 6 shurikens on the lords but then I figured that the walkers might be better with the shurikens since they have battle focus and can take full advantage of the cats assault status.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





London, UK

Seeing as War Walkers and Wraithlords are fairly similar gun platforms, going for a starcannon and AML on each one isn't a bad idea.

There is no penalty for splitting fire and having your weapons spread out across models leaves your opponent with some thinking to do.

You've made a good point using shuriken cannons on the war walkers to make the best use out of battle focus, but the problem with those and scatter lasers is that they're only D1 weapons, which means they'll kill very little despite the number of shots.

At the end of the day though, magnetise your weapons, they're pretty easy to do with war walkers and wraithlords and it gives your minis some longevity.

   
 
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