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Cool.

Unfortunately, Alpharius, you can only check that in hindsight.

What I like about a healthy mainstream comic book market is the
room it leaves for the comics I like to read. I don't think Hitman or
The Boys could exist in a failing market. I could be wrong, though.

Alpharius wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

malfred wrote:Is there evidence that the re-boot got them new readers?

Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.

Well, there's evidence of lots of additional sales - but how many of those are new readers, and how many are sticking around beyond 4, 5 or 6 issues?

Not many if it keeps going like this. The good books will keep their readers and the bad ones will lose them. All we be right in the world eventually.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.

Not sure if sarcasm...

The last five issues of Justice League of America shipped 225,482 units in Top 100 sales. The first five issues of Justice League shipped 853,820 units in Top 100 sales (with Justice League #1 in the Top 100 for August, September, and October). In terms of Top 100 sales, however, sales of Justice League have tapered off by over 40% since its first issue. That only seems precipitous because of JL #1's incredible sales. Between issues 2 and 3, it lost 12%, between 3 and 4, it lost 10%, and between 4 and 5, it lost only 2.6%. In other words, sales are approaching a more stable rate of regression. And issue 5's sales were still over 60% better than the best selling 2011 issue of Justice League of America. So yeah, even discounting "ooh shiny" syndrome, Justice League has significantly more readers than Justice League of America.

And, as KC intimated, this has been pretty well true across the board-- although it's somewhat more nuanced than DC simply overtaking Marvel. As you can see below, the issue is more that DC has become much, much more competitive against Marvel.




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Anung Un Rama wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.

Not sure if sarcasm...

Sarcasm? Not at all -- Marvel has dominated for a while now.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.

Not sure if sarcasm...

I'm always serious. Deadly serious.


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@Manchu looks like my info was a bit out of date. Marvel pulled it out at the last second with the old permanent death of Spider-Man trick. More here: http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/597?articleID=116973 though that's just a 2011 summary. Should be noted 9 of the top 10 best selling books were DC.

Yeah, my analysis accounts for the January figures. The big news for January was that DC got all of the top ten spots. As I noted above, however, Marvel still edged them out in dollars.

I guess charging a buck more a book isn't just to annoy me. Must be some sort of strategy by Marvel to make more money than other people.
I was going to say DC unit sales are even more impressive because they publish less books. However, if they really are publishing 52 books a month then that is quite a bit. I have no idea how many Marvel puts out monthly on average or where you could even find that info.

Just count the titles they're soliciting.

I'm a bit dissapointed that the whole reboot thing worked out so well for DC. I like my years of continuity.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I'm a bit dissapointed that the whole reboot thing worked out so well for DC. I like my years of continuity.

I think it's still fairly continuous. The Green Lantern continuity is barely changed. All the basics seem to be there in most of the titles. But I understand your point. There's a lot of other stuff that has changed.

Look what came in the mail!
300 pages, hardcover and as big as an Imperial Armor book




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So, the Turtles are Splinter's personal hitmen and Shredder dies in the first issue.

I thought about picking it up but the coarse paper did not account for the price tag.

I got it for 35 Euros, which for a hardcover book of this size, seems like a pretty sweet deal.

Well, I'm not talking about a hypothetical hardcover book of similar dimensions. I'm talking about this particular one. MSRP is 50USD. The paper is better than a mass-market paperback but not by much. The printing also seemed slightly distorted to me. Finally, I don't have a huge interest in TMNT. I have enough interest that slightly higher production values would have cinched it for me. I have a couple of the IDW Transformers hardcovers, for example, despite not being very into Transformers.

Alright, time to post our pull lists. I've basically done this across a couple of posts earlier in the thread but just added some titles and wanted to see what I'm up to now. I'd also like to see what others are consistently reading, as I am very DC-centric but not on principle.

Action Comics
All-Star Western
Aquaman
Batgirl
Batman
Batman: Odyssey (mini, two more to go)
Batman & Robin
Batwoman
Birds of Prey
Blue Beetle
Catwoman
Dark Knight
Deathstroke
Detective Comics
Fury of Firestorm
Huntress (mini, one more to go)
Justice League
Nightwing
Penguin: Pain & Prejudice (mini, just finished)
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Superboy
Supergirl
Superman
Teen Titans
Voltron

I've been thinking of getting into Legion of Super Heroes and Legion Lost. Have any of you guys read them?

I'm also going to pull Earth 2, World's Finest, and Voltron Year One when they come out.

Not read either sadly, although I keep seeing pics of Shadowlass and ponder if I want to read more about the character.

My pull list

Batgirl
Batman
Batman The Dark Knight
Batwoman
Birds of Prey
Catwoman
Fairest
Huntress - just got number 6, so finished.
Nightwing
Justice League
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Suicide Squad
Voodoo

Also have pre-ordered for issue one onwards
Batman Inc
Worlds Finest

What's your opinion of RH&tO so far? I've only read through #5 and the title is fun but kind of all over the place, IMO. I'm still not liking DCNU Starfire.

Manchu wrote:What's your opinion of RH&tO so far? I've only read through #5 and the title is fun but kind of all over the place, IMO. I'm still not liking DCNU Starfire.

That's my opinion too.

They really screwed up Starfire badly - I'm hoping there's a payoff to it all somewhere down the road, but I'm not seeing what it could be,...

I don't really have a pull list.

But here's what I look for from week to week:

*Pigs
*The Boys

I'm catching up on the trades for Unwritten and Fables.

Alpharius wrote:They really screwed up Starfire badly - I'm hoping there's a payoff to it all somewhere down the road, but I'm not seeing what it could be,...

How about the flashback scene (can't remember the issue number offhand)? I thought that was pretty awesome but otherwise she's still more like story-furniture than a character, if I'm honest.

Aye the reason I am keeping RH&tO at the moment is for Jason and Roy.

Its annoying as I like where the story seems to be going, and I like the idea they are scraping along the edge of the 'Batman' section of DC, so potential for crossovers later.

However I agree, Kori has a long way to go, I'd say Lobdell has backed off a little on how he started her, regardless of his equivilent 'I don't care what the net thinks' style comments when it all kicked off.
However he is dragging his feet at the moment, maybe pride at work, I hope he finds a way to open her up soon, as she is not that engaging a character at the moment. Which is frankly amusing, as it was her inclusion into the comic that made me pick it up in the first place.

Like you, MDS, I was introduced to the character via the Teen Titans cartoon (as, also like you, I did not read any DC -- Batman titles aside -- as a kid) and, while I don't necessarily pine for that painfully naive character, I do think that character was far more charismatic than Mr. Lobdell's take. Now, long past the sturm und drang of #1, I'm starting to realize that he's giving us exactly what's on the tin: REDHOOD: oh right, and the Outlaws or whatever, I guess.

That's okay with me as far as Speedy's concerned. He's such a borderline-redneck everyman and I could frankly care less. Although it's nothing as sexy as misogyny, and so you don't see people who normally wouldn't give a gak talking about it, I'd say Roy is there for the sole purpose of making Jason look broody and edgy. Like I said, it's fine with me. No matter what you call him, it'll take more than what Lobdell has done so far to make this character even potentially interesting of himself.

That's not the case with Starfire, however: a skimpy purple bikini and lots of shapely orange flesh -- even sitting still, she's like one of those Las Vegas neon casino fronts. You expect excitement and fun and all that. Even her fething name is exciting and romantic. Imagine walking into one of those awesome looking casinos and finding nothing going on, no music, no drinks, everybody whispering about getting an early night. Okay, I'm overdoing it a little. She's fought and used her awesome powers a couple of times. But she's still kind of "not there" personality-wise. Even before the TT cartoon, writers made Starfire "alien" by making her strangely congenial and un-self-conscious. Now she's disconnected to the point of being frigid, despite hooking up with Jason off-page and Roy on.

(Whereas she was head-over-heels for Dick. Jason, Jason ... Those therapy bills will really pile up ...)

Mr. Lobdell did give us a little on this via her flashback where she's a proud, cold killer. That was kind of cool just on it's own but I doubt it foreshadows the "payoff" moment when Kori will finally become more developed as a character. She seems to be headed in the warmer direction, based on her interaction with Roy at the end of #5.

One thing that annoys me and yet also kind of entertains me about this book is that it is disorganized on purpose. Mr. Lobdell has said that these guys aren't a team. This isn't the Anti-TT ... or maybe it's perfectly anti-TT by not even being a team? Whatever, that works fine for Jason and Roy. It kind of goes against the grain with Kori, I think, but I can't presume to state it as a "fact" as I'm not a long-term Kori-fan. My kneejerk expectations of the character are exactly what Mr. Lobdell seems intent on getting away from ...

Yeah, i think I agree with everything you said there, especially regarding Kori and how I see her from the Teen Titans perspective.

When I say Jason and Roy are keeping me in at the moment, I maybe should have clarified I'm not cheering them on, they are just adequate characters, neither of which I had caught before in cartoon or comic form, so I have a mild interest to see where it is going.

However Starfire was the draw, and tbh if he has little more to offer on her than this, I'd rather she finds her way back to the Teen Titans, and I can start picking up that book instead.

Like Voodoo I have decided not to make any kind of judgement call to issue 10, as by then they've had plenty of time to get the comic moving, but I still wonder if he can turn this around.

On a side note, how is Teen Titans in DCNU?

I have not read TT since #1. (I have a substantial backlog -- as Jayme Reyes can especially attest!) As I recall, I was really confused. But I just got TT #6 last night so I will read them all this evening and get back to you.

Just FYI, Scott Lobdell is also writing TT. His other DC book is Superboy, which is (IMO) very good and angsty. His scenes with Rose Wilson left me begging for more so fortunately ...



That's the place-holder cover for Superboy #7. OTOH, I was very disappointed that the upcoming Ravagers title would not include her.

Interesting, so Kori is more a case of he's 'trying to make her different' so Red Hood stands apart from Teen Titans.

That could be his mistake right there, Also makes me wonder if Red Hood/Teen Titans will see some crossover eventually as well.

As to TT, let me know if its good, and I'll try and track some down myself.

There are a few other titles I'd like to try as well, but I do have to draw a line somewhere sadly. If I drop Voodoo or Red Hood eventually, in all likelyhood I will give another DCNU comic a go. Although I did give Fairest a go, thats partially as I like the idea behind it. Might have to look at Fables eventually as well.

The storylines in TT and Superboy are already very entangled, all leading up to a crossover called The Culling beginning with the TT annual, through Superboy and Legion Lost #9, then concluding back in TT. The result? A new title: the Ravagers, with a new (Black) Lightning (and sister, Thunder), a new Beast Boy, and a new Terra! Oh right, and Fairchild from Gen13, bleh, along with some new "big guy" character. But no Rose, whose alter ego actually is (was) Ravager for crying in the mud! Rose will be a player in The Culling, however, because her "rematch" with Superboy is slated for his ninth issue.

Uhh, let's see if I can do this from memory:

Amazing Spider -Man (dropping it though)
Justice League (on the verge of dropping it)
Detective Comics
Batman (picked up the first batch but haven't read them yet)
Avengers
New Avengers
Avenging Spider-Man
Moon Knight
Walking Dead
Invincible
Avengers vs. X-men event stuff (will be getting Uncanny X-men through that event)
Uncanny X-Force (dropping it)

uhhhh, There's probably more but I'll get back to you. In the process of trying to reduce my monthly intake of comics.


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Oh and all the Ultimate stuff:
Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimate X-Men
Ultimates

Well, MDS -- have you read RHatO #6 yet? I just got around to it tonight and found it pretty ironic relative to our earlier conversation. Is Scott Lobdell making fun on his critics? Really?

Meanwhile, on the Teen Titan front -- I did read # 1 - 5 (the team setup issues) tonight as promised and I loved them. It's a very fun book and I like all of the characters, except maybe Skitter. I know you've been looking for Raven. You should give Solstice a try. Less emo, more Buddha-like. There's a detail in one of the panels in #1 that makes me think the two are connected somehow, however.

Issue 6 is also good as far as the team goes but Grymm is a gak villain. In issues 2 - 5, Superboy was the villain for crying out loud! That's a tough act to follow, I guess (it really is). And speaking of Superboy ...

I picked up the above-mentioned #7 tonight buuuuut I don't want to read it until reading #6, a cross-over with Supergirl -- meaning I can't read it without reading through Supergirl, which in turn means I have to read through Superman, too! I'll let you know once all of this gets accomplished ...

In the meantime, EVERYBODY GO READ TEEN TITANS!

How about you instead you read one non DC title

I've been reading Voltron and tried a few other (gakky) Dynamite titles!~