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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude chill out.

This is accurate.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
He makes fair points.

This is not accurate.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Sure, im a sexist, that has got to be the issue.

Who called you a sexist?

I'm just sorry the mean junkyard girl ruined Star Wars for you so much that you might only watch it on DVD, maybe.

Dude chill out. He makes fair points.

No, he really doesn't and it's something that has been pointed out numerous times already.

He absolutely makes fair points, and your attempts at belittling him with comments like 'show me where the girl hurt you' only serve to make YOU look ridiculous, not him. There are a lot of problems with Force Awakens as a movie, and while it's perfectly fine if they didn't bother you, that doesn't mean it didn't bother other people. They should be allowed to discuss what's wrong with the movie without being subjected to your petty insults.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude chill out.

This is accurate.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
He makes fair points.

This is not accurate.

So you are saying the pacing/progression of the movie was perfect?

Because even people who liked the film commonly mentioned the pacing was off... Obviously the severity of this differs from person to person but that's ultimately where the problem lies in the case of "mary Sue" characters in my opinion.

 Smacks wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I won't lie that the rebel pilot in the new movie is kinda mary sue but he had the training. There's a difference.

If Im being honest, the first character I pointed to as a mary sue while watching the film was Poe. I actually muttered it aloud during the scene where he wrecks all those TIE fihters singlehandedly.

But that makes complete sense... he's supposed to be the best pilot in the Galaxy. Doing incredible things is not what makes a character a Mary Sue. In the 1970s, the chess player Bobby Fischer single-handedly smashed the cabal of Russian Grandmasters who had been dominating chess. Men who were considered unbeatable, and he took them apart like they were beginners. It was very impressive, but then it is also understandable because he was the best chess player in the world. That's why we know his name (true story). It's the same for Poe Dameron, he's worked his way through the ranks to be #1. That's why he is a rebel commander, and why he is in the story. His abilities are explained intrinsically. That's actually good writing.

Completely different to a classic Mary Sue like Wesley Crusher, who continually outshines other characters that have worked their way up the ranks, for no demonstrable reason other than creator bias.

Bobby Fischer had a whole host of issues to go along with his chess brilliance, Poe on the other hand... well hes handsome and dreamy and charming and witty and and and... damn.

chaos0xomega wrote:


Bobby Fischer had a whole host of issues to go along with his chess brilliance, Poe on the other hand... well hes handsome and dreamy and charming and witty and and and... damn.

He was also unable to resist Kylo Ren's mind probe.

Leia could resist Darth Vaders mind probe, Poe can't resist Vader Lite.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Bobby Fischer had a whole host of issues to go along with his chess brilliance, Poe on the other hand... well hes handsome and dreamy and charming and witty and and and... damn.

He was also unable to resist Kylo Ren's mind probe.

Leia could resist Darth Vaders mind probe, Poe can't resist Vader Lite.

I thought Darth Vader had an actual mind probe... not a force one? Otherwise the opening scene would have been very different.

I assumed the black orb droid was a torture bot that was trying to get the info out.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Bobby Fischer had a whole host of issues to go along with his chess brilliance, Poe on the other hand... well hes handsome and dreamy and charming and witty and and and... damn.

He was also unable to resist Kylo Ren's mind probe.

Leia could resist Darth Vaders mind probe, Poe can't resist Vader Lite.

I thought Darth Vader had an actual mind probe... not a force one? Otherwise the opening scene would have been very different.

I assumed the black orb droid was a torture bot that was trying to get the info out.

No that's Dr. Ball, he was just there to administer her tetnus booster.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Bobby Fischer had a whole host of issues to go along with his chess brilliance, Poe on the other hand... well hes handsome and dreamy and charming and witty and and and... damn.

He was also unable to resist Kylo Ren's mind probe.

Leia could resist Darth Vaders mind probe, Poe can't resist Vader Lite.

I thought Darth Vader had an actual mind probe... not a force one? Otherwise the opening scene would have been very different.

I assumed the black orb droid was a torture bot that was trying to get the info out.

It was never really explained, it could have been a sedative or some other drug to make her more compliant.

But considering Vader was able to detect Lukes emotions and read his thoughts in Jedi, without even trying that hard from what we see, it wouldn't make sense for Vader to have not tried to use the force to read Leias mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex C wrote:


No that's Dr. Ball, he was just there to administer her tetnus booster.

Robot Chicken reference. Nice

Ah, flu shot, almost

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
He absolutely makes fair points

No, he doesn't. Feel free to go back and read the last 10 pages where all of his childish complaints have been addressed by people who actually watched the movie.

and your attempts at belittling him with comments like 'show me where the girl hurt you' only serve to make YOU look ridiculous, not him.

No, not really. He's made it perfectly clear that he didn't like the movie but for whatever reason he likes to keep coming back and complaining about the same dumb gak. He's even said he's enjoyed tearing the movie apart much more than actually watching it, which is pretty much trollish behavior so it's being treated as such.

There are a lot of problems with Force Awakens as a movie, and while it's perfectly fine if they didn't bother you, that doesn't mean it didn't bother other people.

Oh no, make no mistake, I do not think that The Force Awakens is problem free nor do I think it is above criticism.

They should be allowed to discuss what's wrong with the movie without being subjected to your petty insults.

Aww, that's sweet of you to white knight for him but I'm sure he can stick up for himself against my withering "insults."


In lighter new, Emo Kylo Ren has been a pretty good source of laughs lately:

*indignantly removes wookiee hair from his black outfit with a lint roller* dad i told you that couch was off limits to him

— Emo Kylo Ren (@KyloR3n) December 23, 2015

*spends a whole afternoon unsuccessfully struggling to open a cling-wrapped My Chemical Romance cd*

— Emo Kylo Ren (@KyloR3n) December 23, 2015

just once i wish my dad would respond to "I love you" with "I love you too" mom too for that matter

— Emo Kylo Ren (@KyloR3n) December 23, 2015

dear diary hux and i are wearing black to commemorate the defeat at the battle of endor we both always wear black but today it means more

— Emo Kylo Ren (@KyloR3n) December 22, 2015

This one was pretty good too:

@HotTopic do you have any part time jobs available it would have to be part-time because i'm in a rigorous apprenticeship program

— Emo Kylo Ren (@KyloR3n) December 23, 2015

I'll weigh in on the Rey thing: it didn't bother me because that scene didn't really feel like it was about Rey for me so much as it was about cementing Ren's failure in his own mind. But then, Ren is the only character with any depth in the movie, so maybe it just feels like his movie in general.

The character of Rey as written is pretty much a self-insert RPG character. Every one of the heroes feels like an RPG character played by one of the screenwriters' friends. It's only the skill of the actors that breathed life into them.

Ridley's performance is what I connected to in her scenes, not her character's arc. Anyone who didn't feel that connection with the actress's performance was probably left cold, and less charitable towards the character of Rey. Same deal for Poe. Finn has a bit more going on in terms of his motivations and internal conflict, but he's still a fairly generic action guy. The actors all elevated the material with their performances. Even Phasma's actress gave that joke of a role more soul than it deserved. Dear God was that a terribly written role.

Except for Grand Moff Twink. He had no gravitas and no chemistry with Ren. I cringed every time he came on screen.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Sure, im a sexist, that has got to be the issue.

Who called you a sexist?

I'm just sorry the mean junkyard girl ruined Star Wars for you so much that you might only watch it on DVD, maybe.

Dude chill out. He makes fair points.

What points? Sorry Rey is a great character. I have taken story writing classes and she is the most well developed, and believable character. WE have entire part where it is no dialogue, just external dialogue the movie is great, and people saying it is bad are really just overlooking alot of the movie.

I will defend this movie. They have great characters, and none of them fall into the category of mary sue! They may have aspects. But the characters are well developed and well crafted. They are witty, funny, intelligent, committed. Unlike mary sues which are not big of a deal in writing. As cliches and tropes are not inheriently negative if you know anything about writing or script writing.

Anakin for example is a true mary sue. He is literally born from the force, bloody mary sue! He is literally the jesus christ of starwars. Unlike Rey, she isn't. We don't know. We have theories about Rey.

We have theories about alot of the characters.

Dude, the characters are not developed well at all. They are practically blank slates for the audience to port over their feelings for OT characters into.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Dude, the characters are not developed well at all. They are practically blank slates for the audience to port over their feelings for OT characters into.

Could you explain this to me? How are they blank slates?

Blank slates are just slates of people like an Avatar in a game.

Big difference between a blank slate and a character.

These are characters. Not blank slates. We are not seeing through their eyes. We are seeing it from an omniscient point of view.

IF they were blank slates they would be doing like what they were doing in the movie.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Sure, im a sexist, that has got to be the issue.

Who called you a sexist?

I'm just sorry the mean junkyard girl ruined Star Wars for you so much that you might only watch it on DVD, maybe.

Dude chill out. He makes fair points.

What points? Sorry Rey is a great character. I have taken story writing classes and she is the most well developed, and believable character. WE have entire part where it is no dialogue, just external dialogue the movie is great, and people saying it is bad are really just overlooking alot of the movie.

I will defend this movie. They have great characters, and none of them fall into the category of mary sue! They may have aspects. But the characters are well developed and well crafted. They are witty, funny, intelligent, committed. Unlike mary sues which are not big of a deal in writing. As cliches and tropes are not inheriently negative if you know anything about writing or script writing.

Anakin for example is a true mary sue. He is literally born from the force, bloody mary sue! He is literally the jesus christ of starwars. Unlike Rey, she isn't. We don't know. We have theories about Rey.

We have theories about alot of the characters.

What school did you go to? For someone who said "what points?" you sure did a great job of pointing out nothing about TFA... Anakin is also a Mary Sue... People also hate Anakin, this is obvious.

How is Rey the perfect Character? How does taking story writing class (something mandatory in school) mean you are above others in opinions? I mean... lets face it. I wager most writers have gone to a writing class of sorts and most writing sucks and is forgettable.

Ultimately it comes down to opinion, if someone thinks a characters is lame for seemingly learning the force in seconds like Rey are they wrong? You might disagree but that does not make that person wrong. But sure I guess because creative writing class guy says the characters are "perfect" (is that even a thing?) thats the end of the discussion yea?

It's opinion, if you disagree say why you disagree, stating some qualifications and your opinion isn't worth much without explanation.

What school did you go to? For someone who said "what points?" you sure did a great job of pointing out nothing about TFA... Anakin is also a Mary Sue... People also hate Anakin, this is obvious.

Ahem, I took a class, Big difference. Instead of demanding my education how about you tell me why it is wrong. TFA has great development with its characters who are all centered around loss, and having to do all these different types of things. We have Rey who has a mysterious past, and has jedi powers. SHe denies her powers, and is constantly in battle with herself. SHe has skills and abilities that are incredibly high yes. But those are very common among people in the starwars universe. Talented force users are known for that. Maybe from that memory she took up those powers? But I do have to say her picking up those powers that quickly is not that believable.

How is Rey the perfect Character? How does taking story writing class (something mandatory in school) mean you are above others in opinions? I mean... lets face it. I wager most writers have gone to a writing class of sorts and most writing sucks and is forgettable.

Perfect? Where did I say that? I said she is a well developed, well created character. SHe is not a perfect character, there is no such thing. She is a great school.

How did I say i am above? I have more knowledge about writing than most do.

And that what you said is just insulting. You do not know my writing or my peers!

Hell most writers who become professional are very different than what you think.

Ultimately it comes down to opinion, if someone thinks a characters is lame for seemingly learning the force in seconds like Rey are they wrong? You might disagree but that does not make that person wrong. But sure I guess because creative writing class guy says the characters are "perfect" (is that even a thing?) thats the end of the discussion yea?

Now you are just getting down to well this and this. Its not really opinion if it is commonly shared and only the minority share that opinion.

I can see your point but at the same time there are lots of problems with that statement.

It's opinion, if you disagree say why you disagree, stating some qualifications and your opinion isn't worth much without explanation.

Neither is it for you.

You can state that the writing is subpar, but saying the characters are terrible just because you say so isn't help you either.

Look at these characters, they have depth, they have purpose, they make mistakes. They are human. That is the difference between her and many other characters. SHe struggled to be who she was at the end of the film. All she ever wanted to do was find her family and parents and possibly find herself. What more human qualities do you want?

Lets go down a laundry list shall we.

What makes a great character?

A great character is one that is compelling?

Is rey Compelling?

Yes?

Then she is a great character?

Yes.

A great character has to be interesting and compelling. They have to make mistakes and give interest to the audience. A mary sue at their heart is uninteresting, we do not care about the mary sue because we know they will make it in the end. Rey we were compelled not to. We cared about Rey, because she had a story, she wants to live, and find her parents. She wants to find her family. She struggles and her character is far more interesting than what any of the prequels could even bring up to stand against her. She is a great character because we can identify with her, she is lost at the beginning of the movie, living off of scraps, living on a desert planet. She finally is able to come to a planet filled with green. She clearly has some experience flying ships and many other things. We do not know who she is and her backstory is a mystery. And for that we are given a compelling reason to find out who she is.

What makes a perfect character?

Wait that doesn't exist!


She is a human and is thus a great character. That and being a female in a major film. LIKE STARWARS my god we have one of the greatest female characters in recent history!

 Asherian Command wrote:

What school did you go to? For someone who said "what points?" you sure did a great job of pointing out nothing about TFA... Anakin is also a Mary Sue... People also hate Anakin, this is obvious.

Ahem, I took a class, Big difference. Instead of demanding my education how about you tell me why it is wrong. TFA has great development with its characters who are all centered around loss, and having to do all these different types of things. We have Rey who has a mysterious past, and has jedi powers. SHe denies her powers, and is constantly in battle with herself. SHe has skills and abilities that are incredibly high yes. But those are very common among people in the starwars universe. Talented force users are known for that. Maybe from that memory she took up those powers? But I do have to say her picking up those powers that quickly is not that believable.

How is Rey the perfect Character? How does taking story writing class (something mandatory in school) mean you are above others in opinions? I mean... lets face it. I wager most writers have gone to a writing class of sorts and most writing sucks and is forgettable.

Perfect? Where did I say that? I said she is a well developed, well created character. SHe is not a perfect character, there is no such thing. She is a great school.

How did I say i am above? I have more knowledge about writing than most do.

And that what you said is just insulting. You do not know my writing or my peers!

Hell most writers who become professional are very different than what you think.

Ultimately it comes down to opinion, if someone thinks a characters is lame for seemingly learning the force in seconds like Rey are they wrong? You might disagree but that does not make that person wrong. But sure I guess because creative writing class guy says the characters are "perfect" (is that even a thing?) thats the end of the discussion yea?

Now you are just getting down to well this and this. Its not really opinion if it is commonly shared and only the minority share that opinion.

I can see your point but at the same time there are lots of problems with that statement.

It's opinion, if you disagree say why you disagree, stating some qualifications and your opinion isn't worth much without explanation.

Neither is it for you.

You can state that the writing is subpar, but saying the characters are terrible just because you say so isn't help you either.

Look at these characters, they have depth, they have purpose, they make mistakes. They are human. That is the difference between her and many other characters. SHe struggled to be who she was at the end of the film. All she ever wanted to do was find her family and parents and possibly find herself. What more human qualities do you want?

She is a human and is thus a great character. That and being a female in a major film. LIKE STARWARS my god we have one of the greatest female characters in recent history!

My bad, don't know where I got perfect...

Anyway, my point was how people like a character and think of them isn't a matter of fact. I have not said people are wrong for saying Rey is a great character once (unlike someone here). If you think Rey as a character is great thats fine, I happen to put her on par with child Anakin for many reasons already stated.

Are they good characters? Not really. A good character doesn't know Wookie out of the blue for example. I get she can do it so she can talk to Chewie when Han dies, but it would have been better if NEXT movie she could talk to Chewie after piloting alongside him etc. That's just one of the many examples of weak writing for these characters. Which goes back to the point you criticised, the pacing/speed these characters know and do things is way too fast, which is why I think a lot of people didn't like them. In terms of wookie speak, nobody would bat an eye if after spending time with a wookie she could speak it instead of knowing it off the bat for no real reason etc.

My bad, don't know where I got perfect...

Anyway, my point was how people like a character and think of them isn't a matter of fact. I have not said people are wrong for saying Rey is a great character once (unlike someone here). If you think Rey as a character is great thats fine, I happen to put her on par with child Anakin for many reasons already stated.

But if a character is compelling and interesting? Than doesn't that give them more interest than Anakin? Anakin was bland and uninteresting what baring did we have to care about this homicidal manaic?

Anakin isn't compelling so by definition he isn't a great character. Or even a reasonable one.

Rey is. I don't understand is how could she be less compelling? As that is not opinion based but more of interest base. Is it because is a woman?

 Asherian Command wrote:

My bad, don't know where I got perfect...

Anyway, my point was how people like a character and think of them isn't a matter of fact. I have not said people are wrong for saying Rey is a great character once (unlike someone here). If you think Rey as a character is great thats fine, I happen to put her on par with child Anakin for many reasons already stated.

But if a character is compelling and interesting? Than doesn't that give them more interest than Anakin? Anakin was bland and uninteresting what baring did we have to care about this homicidal manaic?

Anakin isn't compelling so by definition he isn't a great character. Or even a reasonable one.

Rey is. I don't understand is how could she be less compelling? As that is not opinion based but more of interest base. Is it because is a woman?

No... it's nothing to do with Gender. Or it would have been mentioned already im sure.

Rey is also bland and uninteresting. Why should we care about a character that overcomes every little thing (and by that I mean almost everything) that gets in her way with seemingly little effort? At the moment I simply see no reason to care about Reys training. Why does she need training? She is doing what master jedi do with mere seconds of thought. In the context of Starwars why bother caring about this character anymore?

When you character does everything, often without explanation, it quickly becomes boring. I never felt like Rey was in danger no matter what her facials tried to say otherwise. If her powers took the movie to develop then she would have been far better, like I said on the previous page. See some progression, some development and slow things down a bit.

No... it's nothing to do with Gender. Or it would have been mentioned already im sure.

Rey is also bland and uninteresting. Why should we care about a character that overcomes every little thing (and by that I mean almost everything) that gets in her way with seemingly little effort? At the moment I simply see no reason to care about Reys training. Why does she need training? She is doing what master jedi do with mere seconds of thought. In the context of Starwars why bother caring about this character anymore?

When you character does everything, often without explanation, it quickly becomes boring. I never felt like Rey was in danger no matter what her facials tried to say otherwise. If her powers took the movie to develop then she would have been far better, like I said on the previous page. See some progression, some development and slow things down a bit.

This is where our paths diverge as what you define as uninteresting and bland you have not gotten context to, you have told me she emotes, and gives interest in the scene and is the main focus of a scene. Her emotions are clearly mixed through out the film, and she progresses. If you know anything about story writing, that is compelling and interesting.

 Asherian Command wrote:

No... it's nothing to do with Gender. Or it would have been mentioned already im sure.

Rey is also bland and uninteresting. Why should we care about a character that overcomes every little thing (and by that I mean almost everything) that gets in her way with seemingly little effort? At the moment I simply see no reason to care about Reys training. Why does she need training? She is doing what master jedi do with mere seconds of thought. In the context of Starwars why bother caring about this character anymore?

When you character does everything, often without explanation, it quickly becomes boring. I never felt like Rey was in danger no matter what her facials tried to say otherwise. If her powers took the movie to develop then she would have been far better, like I said on the previous page. See some progression, some development and slow things down a bit.

This is where our paths diverge as what you define as uninteresting and bland you have not gotten context to, you have told me she emotes, and gives interest in the scene and is the main focus of a scene. Her emotions are clearly mixed through out the film, and she progresses. If you know anything about story writing, that is compelling and interesting.

I have never seen a character show no emotion, even in movies where they aren't supposed to. I have seen characters that are poorly explained and implemented like rey. But you need both to make a character worthwhile.

If you prefer only one half of that then I think you will end up with some pretty boring characters. A characters story is more important often (as thats often the main story) than how human they feel. Without the good story their acting is a waste of time yes?

 Asherian Command wrote:


This is where our paths diverge as what you define as uninteresting and bland you have not gotten context to, you have told me she emotes, and gives interest in the scene and is the main focus of a scene. Her emotions are clearly mixed through out the film, and she progresses. If you know anything about story writing, that is compelling and interesting.

Emoting, giving interest, and being the main focus of a scene does not make the character compelling and interesting. If that were true, Twilight would be compelling and interesting. What Swastakowey is trying to tell you is that the movie does not show progression for her character in a good way, which I totally agree with. Rey has very little idea of what Jedi are prior to the events of Force Awakens, yet she is able to do things on the fly that took other characters in these movies much longer to learn and master. If her abilities were gradually developed over the course of the movie it would have been much easier to digest, but this is a side effect of the terrible pacing in Force Awakens. The film has no room to breathe, and just moves you from one set piece to another. There is no buildup for anything, including Rey's lightning fast mastery of the Force.

I do kinda agree that they really rushed through some character development. It sort of feels they crammed two movies worth of development into one and skipped a bunch of stuff.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
No, he doesn't. Feel free to go back and read the last 10 pages where all of his childish complaints have been addressed by people who actually watched the movie.

I'll have to take your word for it on the last 10 pages, but the last post he made which you responded to does not read like the childish tirade you're making it out to be. I happen to agree with a lot of what he says, does that make me a childish troll too? If I understand him correctly, his complaint is that the movie's pacing leaves a lot to be desired especially when it comes to the development of Rey's powers. It's fine if you disagree with that assessment, but I really don't think the responses you chose to give were particularly conducive to having an actual discussion. You made it seem like his reasons for disliking the movie were ridiculous, but they're really not.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:


This is where our paths diverge as what you define as uninteresting and bland you have not gotten context to, you have told me she emotes, and gives interest in the scene and is the main focus of a scene. Her emotions are clearly mixed through out the film, and she progresses. If you know anything about story writing, that is compelling and interesting.

Emoting, giving interest, and being the main focus of a scene does not make the character compelling and interesting. If that were true, Twilight would be compelling and interesting. What Swastakowey is trying to tell you is that the movie does not show progression for her character in a good way, which I totally agree with. Rey has very little idea of what Jedi are prior to the events of Force Awakens, yet she is able to do things on the fly that took other characters in these movies much longer to learn and master. If her abilities were gradually developed over the course of the movie it would have been much easier to digest, but this is a side effect of the terrible pacing in Force Awakens. The film has no room to breathe, and just moves you from one set piece to another. There is no buildup for anything, including Rey's lightning fast mastery of the Force.

I wouldn't call it lightning fast plus if that is your only beef with the movie it is a pretty weak reason to hate it or dislike it.

If you read my posts I defined what it meant to be compelling! So please read instead of taking a snippet of what I said! Though I do agree but it doesn't make her character worse, I mean in most movies heroes get abilities in a second or so. I mean look at guardians of the galaxy we are not explained till the end why quill was able to last out in space and could use the stone. Or how bloody groot was able to use all these abilities later on in the movie! We don't know, we barely even have a concept of what the force is in the first place.

She has not mastered the force. She has no understanding of it and can do what? Preform a mindtrick? How many times did she use the force? Three times? The force is based on willpower. So in this instance I think it is believable. But I do agree the pacing of the movie is kind of meh. But it doesn't make it a worse movie it is still a great movie, probably one of the better ones this year.

Plus emoting and giving interest? Bella didn't show any interest or emoting. So no that doesn't help your argument. Bella didn't care the whole time, and didn't emote. She gave a blank stare of surprise and that was about it.Emoting and be human are compelling. Her story of wanting to find her parents. That is compelling. I could go on all night If I have too. IF you are going to be adamant I sure as helk will be. I can say certain things are true, but I will not give quarter to people who do not look at and think "maybe he is right." Or looking at it from another respective. Instead of being an adamant unmoving because they believe themselves in the right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I do kinda agree that they really rushed through some character development. It sort of feels they crammed two movies worth of development into one and skipped a bunch of stuff.

True, but it is by far a much better movie than what some people here give it credit for.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I happen to agree with a lot of what he says

That's fine.

does that make me a childish troll too?

No, because you haven't spent the last 10 or so pages complaining about how much you didn't like the movie while at the same time admitting you enjoy coming to this thread and complaining about it. He just keeps repeating the same dumb gak over and over again so people engage him.

If I understand him correctly, his complaint is that the movie's pacing leaves a lot to be desired especially when it comes to the development of Rey's powers.

Then you don't understand him correctly because that isn't is argument.

It's fine if you disagree with that assessment, but I really don't think the responses you chose to give were particularly conducive to having an actual discussion.

You know why I disagree? Because every single one of his "points" has been thoroughly deconstructed by multiple people yet he still just sits there and repeats them.

You made it seem like his reasons for disliking the movie were ridiculous, but they're really not.

No, his reason for disliking Rey is.

 Asherian Command wrote:

I wouldn't call it lightning fast plus if that is your only beef with the movie it is a pretty weak reason to hate it or dislike it.

If you read my posts I defined what it meant to be compelling! So please read instead of taking a snippet of what I said! Though I do agree but it doesn't make her character worse, I mean in most movies heroes get abilities in a second or so. I mean look at guardians of the galaxy we are not explained till the end why quill was able to last out in space and could use the stone. Or how bloody groot was able to use all these abilities later on in the movie! We don't know, we barely even have a concept of what the force is in the first place.

She has not mastered the force. She has no understanding of it and can do what? Preform a mindtrick? How many times did she use the force? Three times? The force is based on willpower. So in this instance I think it is believable. But I do agree the pacing of the movie is kind of meh. But it doesn't make it a worse movie it is still a great movie, probably one of the better ones this year.

Plus emoting and giving interest? Bella didn't show any interest or emoting. So no that doesn't help your argument. Bella didn't care the whole time, and didn't emote. She gave a blank stare of surprise and that was about it.Emoting and be human are compelling. Her story of wanting to find her parents. That is compelling. I could go on all night If I have too. IF you are going to be adamant I sure as helk will be. I can say certain things are true, but I will not give quarter to people who do not look at and think "maybe he is right." Or looking at it from another respective. Instead of being an adamant unmoving because they believe themselves in the right.

Firstly, the rapid development of Rey's powers is definitely not my only problem with this movie. My biggest issue with it is the complete and total lack of creativity that went into the script. The Force Awakens is a shameless ripoff of the first movie, and that's just not okay with me. As I said earlier in this thread, the expanded universe showed us that the Star Wars setting has incredible potential for storytelling and this movie wasted that potential to give us a half-assed remake. It bends over backwards to do this too by having to invent the Resistance and the First Order in order to reset the status quo to what it was at the beginning of the original trilogy, effectively nullifying the incredibly significant and monolithic changes brought about by the death of the Emperor and, by extension, the fall of the Empire. That is incredibly lazy writing.

Secondly, how anyone could call it anything but lightning fast is a mystery to me. This girl grows up on a backwater planet believing that Jedi are nothing but myth, it takes a chance encounter with Han Solo for her to have affirmation that they are actually real. Yet, despite this, the second half of this movie has her not only resist but actually reverse a mind probe by a Dark Jedi who has presumably been using that technique for years. After that, she uses a Jedi mind trick - how does she even know what that is? There is absolutely no reason she would know such an ability existed, let alone how to use it. The worst offender of all is the actual final confrontation with Ren, all of the explanations for which center on the fact that he's wounded and emotionally conflicted. As if being thrown against a tree and having your entire life uprooted in the short span of the events of this movie would not also lead to the same difficulties Ren was experiencing.

Finally, how on earth does bad pacing not make a movie bad? You said you've had classes on writing, surely that involved the importance of pacing your narrative. The pacing absolutely makes it a worse movie, and it is certainly not a great film. I'm not going to go into arguing Twilight with you as that would involve shamefully admitting that I've actually seen them and also seriously derailing this thread, so let's just leave that be.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I happen to agree with a lot of what he says

That's fine.

does that make me a childish troll too?

No, because you haven't spent the last 10 or so pages complaining about how much you didn't like the movie while at the same time admitting you enjoy coming to this thread and complaining about it. He just keeps repeating the same dumb gak over and over again so people engage him.

If I understand him correctly, his complaint is that the movie's pacing leaves a lot to be desired especially when it comes to the development of Rey's powers.

Then you don't understand him correctly because that isn't is argument.

It's fine if you disagree with that assessment, but I really don't think the responses you chose to give were particularly conducive to having an actual discussion.

You know why I disagree? Because every single one of his "points" has been thoroughly deconstructed by multiple people yet he still just sits there and repeats them.

You made it seem like his reasons for disliking the movie were ridiculous, but they're really not.

No, his reason for disliking Rey is.

Umm he is right, that was my point. The reason I think Rey is bad (along with many issues of the movie) is solely down to the pacing.

For a second, during the scene where the woman's mind was being probed, I thought we were going to have a repeat of the scene in Scanners where the dude's head blew up.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

I wouldn't call it lightning fast plus if that is your only beef with the movie it is a pretty weak reason to hate it or dislike it.

If you read my posts I defined what it meant to be compelling! So please read instead of taking a snippet of what I said! Though I do agree but it doesn't make her character worse, I mean in most movies heroes get abilities in a second or so. I mean look at guardians of the galaxy we are not explained till the end why quill was able to last out in space and could use the stone. Or how bloody groot was able to use all these abilities later on in the movie! We don't know, we barely even have a concept of what the force is in the first place.

She has not mastered the force. She has no understanding of it and can do what? Preform a mindtrick? How many times did she use the force? Three times? The force is based on willpower. So in this instance I think it is believable. But I do agree the pacing of the movie is kind of meh. But it doesn't make it a worse movie it is still a great movie, probably one of the better ones this year.

Plus emoting and giving interest? Bella didn't show any interest or emoting. So no that doesn't help your argument. Bella didn't care the whole time, and didn't emote. She gave a blank stare of surprise and that was about it.Emoting and be human are compelling. Her story of wanting to find her parents. That is compelling. I could go on all night If I have too. IF you are going to be adamant I sure as helk will be. I can say certain things are true, but I will not give quarter to people who do not look at and think "maybe he is right." Or looking at it from another respective. Instead of being an adamant unmoving because they believe themselves in the right.

Firstly, the rapid development of Rey's powers is definitely not my only problem with this movie. My biggest issue with it is the complete and total lack of creativity that went into the script. The Force Awakens is a shameless ripoff of the first movie, and that's just not okay with me. As I said earlier in this thread, the expanded universe showed us that the Star Wars setting has incredible potential for storytelling and this movie wasted that potential to give us a half-assed remake. It bends over backwards to do this too by having to invent the Resistance and the First Order in order to reset the status quo to what it was at the beginning of the original trilogy, effectively nullifying the incredibly significant and monolithic changes brought about by the death of the Emperor and, by extension, the fall of the Empire. That is incredibly lazy writing.

Secondly, how anyone could call it anything but lightning fast is a mystery to me. This girl grows up on a backwater planet believing that Jedi are nothing but myth, it takes a chance encounter with Han Solo for her to have affirmation that they are actually real. Yet, despite this, the second half of this movie has her not only resist but actually reverse a mind probe by a Dark Jedi who has presumably been using that technique for years. After that, she uses a Jedi mind trick - how does she even know what that is? There is absolutely no reason she would know such an ability existed, let alone how to use it. The worst offender of all is the actual final confrontation with Ren, all of the explanations for which center on the fact that he's wounded and emotionally conflicted. As if being thrown against a tree and having your entire life uprooted in the short span of the events of this movie would not also lead to the same difficulties Ren was experiencing.

Finally, how on earth does bad pacing not make a movie bad? You said you've had classes on writing, surely that involved the importance of pacing your narrative. The pacing absolutely makes it a worse movie, and it is certainly not a great film. I'm not going to go into arguing Twilight with you as that would involve shamefully admitting that I've actually seen them and also seriously derailing this thread, so let's just leave that be.

The same reason a clockwork orange, or any good film is. Pacing is very different based on each movie. In terms of this movie the pacing is average. Its not rushing as much as some people make it out to be. I didn't sit in my seat confused at how far we had come. We had seen a journey. A full journey mind you of a character. Plus its not like she tried her mind trick the first time and succeeded, she tried it four times. before getting it right. Its very much like what happened in harry potter where all of a sudden oh he can ride a broom. People would say that is fine! But oh when a jedi has a natural ability like that? It is terrible pacing? How is that terrible pacing? Harry had no idea what magic was and he could do that. We weren't explained that for a very long time. Rey may be on the same page here as harry. Infact your unoriginal complaint has no baring in this day and age. Where movie after movie is either a sequel or a reboot or a prequel. This movie is very different from starwars the new hope. Infact its a omage to the entire original trilogy. Look at the first scene tatooine, but then it moves onto empire strikes back, and then return of the jedi, with the new jedi facing off against a villian. It was a natural progression of a story. If you look at the original pacing of the new hope it follows the same path, but diverges quite a bit. If you forget the details it is still a pretty different story. As in the original the entire group gets captured in the original. In this one they were captured for.... 15 seconds? And then the rebels arrived!

So I do not think the pacing is bad. I am a writer, and I don't think it is bad, terrible as you say. It has problems. Oh hell it has problems. But it is not as bad as you have been saying it is. It is a great movie because it does something else. And goes on a path that we haven't seen before. And leads us down an interesting road.

I do think it is funny a bunch of people are angry that a girl was able to get basic powers of space magic in a shorter amount of time than any male character has. In a galaxy filled with lazers, space magic and everything people are angry at someone learning magic in a short amount of time? bah!