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My Reavers are always the odd man out when list building.

I am big on "Allies of Agony" and when it gets to crunch time I remove the 3 Reavers and add a unit of Mandrakes or even Hellions, (My Hellions have had good luck where my Reavers have never seen turn 3 in any game).

If I had 6 to 9 Reavers it would be another story.

Headlss wrote:


This guy right here. I found our lord of war. This is what happens when they catch you trying to make dark pacts with ruinous powers. They feed you to a tree. The unseen. The Unseen is hidden from the warp. And get no invul save.

Move 12. Scream of the damed range attack, something like a double bale flamer. CC weapon titanic feet. (I really think their is no better cc weapin right now) armor 3+ inured to suffering 5+.

Special rules hidden from the warp. No unit with in 6" can take an invul save. Including allied units.

Preditory tree. Heal one wound for every model killed.

I think that would fit our style. Or how I want fun elves to play.


Also have you seen the cool models in age of sigmar! I'm trying to figure out how to use the daughters of Khaine in my army.

And when I saw this guy (or girl) a LoW for us made sense thats why I inclued my wish list unit. The rules just wrote themselves.

I've been hoping for a couple of editions now that they transition dark eldar/dark elves into having some shadow daemon type units, things that are mandrakes like, full shadow daemons, and half drukhari/half shadow daemon.

Headlss wrote:

If you get more mileage out of strife rock on man.

I don't mind hitting a screen. But if you don't want to hit the screen you should be able to shoot a hole in it. I don't know about you but I have plenty of poison shots and very little to do with them. Cleaning up screens the perfect thing to do with them.

Have you had any luck using "eviscerating flyby"? If you have the range, advance over a unit, drop some mortal wounds (average 4 with a full squad of bikers) then declare a charge against everything but the flamers and make a mess in their lines.

And thats why I don't mind hitting a screen. They fall back, leaving the bikes hanging then they shoot with everything they've got. I pop lighting reflexes and tank all their fire power round 1. Most games I lose them t1. And I win. If the other guy has a lot of strenght 5 or 6 shots I also over does my bikers.

Anyway, thats how I use my bikers. Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse.

What I find very usefull is putting our otherwise useless HQs together with wyches or wracks in a raider. Maybe a second one with 10 wyches and that should deal with nearly any screen units. If you are afraid of overwatch you can use the raiders to soak it. I also use Talos or Grots together with a haemi + vexator as melee units.

Well, I have 4 boxes of Scourges unassembled.
How would you equip MSU (1+4) Scourges units?
Now I have 4 special weapons of each type.

Scourges work best with blasters, haywire or shredders in my opinion.


Shredders for anti infantry and haywire and blasters depending on your preference for Anti-Vehicle.

Headlss wrote:

No seriously. If you could buy a strategem or some war gear they let you have no incoming fire t1 what would you pay?

It isn't that valuable though. Any good player knows how to screen. With the FAQ change to flying assaulters your never finding room to land a unit 12 strong behind a screen. So your extra 8" can pound sand (pun intended) and your going all in on durability over offense meaning that unit hits like a pillow against that outer screen. Meanwhile strife can charge the screen turn 1 anyway, absolutely mulch it, then pop their strat to pile into the next target and mulch that too. BTW that strat works for shooting as well, so you can just as easily quad tap a target with those blasters, then do it again to another target.

If you get more mileage out of strife rock on man.

I don't mind hitting a screen. But if you don't want to hit the screen you should be able to shoot a hole in it. I don't know about you but I have plenty of poison shots and very little to do with them. Cleaning up screens the perfect thing to do with them.

Have you had any luck using "eviscerating flyby"? If you have the range, advance over a unit, drop some mortal wounds (average 4 with a full squad of bikers) then declare a charge against everything but the flamers and make a mess in their lines.

And thats why I don't mind hitting a screen. They fall back, leaving the bikes hanging then they shoot with everything they've got. I pop lighting reflexes and tank all their fire power round 1. Most games I lose them t1. And I win. If the other guy has a lot of strenght 5 or 6 shots I also over does my bikers.

Anyway, thats how I use my bikers. Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse.

I just end up playing a lot of ITC games lately, and in my meta you don't get past screens on turn 1, at least no in the movement phase. I could blow a hole in a screen with all my poison, but then I need a longer charge through. So for that reason I just tend to set up any assaults for turn 2. Any faction I rush in and get turn one assaults with just never seems to pay off. You are lucky if you trade and for me 12 reavers really need to trade well and not just tie down targets. That's why I think 3 man red grief units can be amazing utility, it just depends how you want to skin that cat.

Also for screen clearing I tend to prefer coven since I can use the screen as a slingshot target. It's kind of using their own screen against them when on turn 2, 3 talos or a brick of grots wheel in

I have had mixed luck with eviscerating fly by personally. I do like to consider it from time to time though. With the deathwatch becomeing more common and a real pain when dug in I need to reconsider it. That paired with a voidmine can really help chop back those pesky shields. I was trying to make it work on hellions for a while but it was to hit or miss. On the bikes it's nice but I tend to either cause 5-6 wounds or cause like 1 lol. But that is just the difference between math hammer and a real game sometimes lol. I do love that strat though. I wish more stratagems in other factions had that kind of flavor.

I like your use for reavers in your army BTW. Very Truekin of you as an archon to use them as a sacrificial distraction carnifex. I'll have to give that a try, I tend to favor high damage output on cult over tankiness since I play a lot of coven and get that from them but having a fast tanking unit definitely is solid.

 Elfric wrote:
Scourges work best with blasters, haywire or shredders in my opinion.


Shredders for anti infantry and haywire and blasters depending on your preference for Anti-Vehicle.

Yeah. After deep striking they are in range no matter what.
I'll leave splinter cannons for Venoms.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I have 4 boxes of Scourges unassembled.
How would you equip MSU (1+4) Scourges units?
Now I have 4 special weapons of each type.

Sounds like you are building all of them.

Start with the blasters. The either shredders or haywire depending on target.

The last 4 I might run with carbines instead of splinter cannons, half the firepower but half the cost too.

But build the first squad for a specific target.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Scourges work best with blasters, haywire or shredders in my opinion.


Shredders for anti infantry and haywire and blasters depending on your preference for Anti-Vehicle.

Yeah. After deep striking they are in range no matter what.
I'll leave splinter cannons for Venoms.

Shredders and Haywire for me, I used the Splinter Cannons for conversion to more Haywire using Harlequin bits from Starweavers.

Well it looks LIKELY that I'll get my Scourges back from the guy whose painting them tomorrow? So if I do, I will officially be able to play my Dark Eldar Brigade again. I played DE 12 times when the index dropped, won them all and then played other stuff and havent gotten a game in since the codex dropped, albeit I have of course fought them.

So I'm kinda excited, kinda not. The Codex isn't made, really, for one DE faction type armies and so I am going to be kinda shoe horning it to work. On one hand I love a good challenge but on the other, I kinda created my own rep to live up to and I don't know if the list will do that.

Is anyone here a Coven specific player? No other ones thrown in, just straight up Coven?

I have played coven heavy lists a ton of times. I have play any different lists as well, 3 Reaper list, Tantalus, Lots of Wracks, etc..

1) 2 Haemonculus with 2 relics, Mask and Helm, both are very good
2) Always play with Urien
3) Lots and lots of Grotesques makes it work better
4) A Battalion is easy, and a Spearhead works great
5) At least take 1 10 man Wrack unit, the Stratagem can be very useful.

My Normal full coven list is

Battalion PoF

Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Ele Whip, Vex Mask
Urien - WL
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x10, Hexrifle, Ele whip
Grots x9
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Raider - PGL
Raider - PGL

Dark Creed Spearhead
Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Helm of Spite
Reaper
Reaper
Reaper

There is 22pts left over, can easily take away a couple rifles to add a 10 grot.

Tho I personally like it, b.c i focus on scare tactics, with 5 Hex rifles and Reapers able to Snipe characters, i hope to stop lts of the aura hammer and special characters doing things, rush my Meat mountain up and spread out the Wracks to objectives/DS blocking/Character protection.

But i would rather use Ravagers, i do play mono games and i adopted to reapers.

 Jancoran wrote:
Well it looks LIKELY that I'll get my Scourges back from the guy whose painting them tomorrow? So if I do, I will officially be able to play my Dark Eldar Brigade again. I played DE 12 times when the index dropped, won them all and then played other stuff and havent gotten a game in since the codex dropped, albeit I have of course fought them.

So I'm kinda excited, kinda not. The Codex isn't made, really, for one DE faction type armies and so I am going to be kinda shoe horning it to work. On one hand I love a good challenge but on the other, I kinda created my own rep to live up to and I don't know if the list will do that.

Is anyone here a Coven specific player? No other ones thrown in, just straight up Coven?

A whole Brigade at the 2000 pt level is my ultimate objective.
Three Scourge units will be included.
Three Ravagers for heavy support.
Elite - I don't know.

I have a crap ton of scourge and though i love the look of the models my suggestion for using them is DON'T. I keep trying to find a use for them where they don't get absolutely all murdered in a turn without doing much (as in any fight vs knights, riptides or forge world dreadnought). Any invulnerable save units will just laugh off what you have except haywire but the riptide would still be laughing.

Currently there are only a couple builds of scourge i'd use if at all. Full shardcarbine (don't DS), haywire (DS would probably work here) and full squads with dark lance (don't DS).

Haywire would do alright but like it's everything in the enemy's face from DS turn 2 and it'll get vaporized in a turn.

Shardcarbines are anti-infantry and have more wound's and range than shredders and are ok far as i know with a good range of targets for a good amount of shots (hopefully other units will have the opponent's murderous intent on them).

Dark lances are good and with wound ablative buddies can be legit. The only issue is all the shoot and scoot as well as negative modifier armies means that it's not as effective as it could be. It'll get you turn 1 anti-tank/anti-monster and you're far enough away that most retaliation fire won't hurt that bad and that's something most scourge guns can't give to you. Sadly the points cost might not be worth it.

------------

And now posts for myself. I've been chatting a little with some dark eldar facebook group and those guys sound really good. I still might due trueborn even though they suggest basic warriors are better. The sheer cost of the trueborn and the threat in each venom with an all your eggs in one basket might be an issue to them. To an extent i agree but i'm not totally fully sure. If i recall their Competitive list is all covens and flyers if you wanna go pure. I think i'll use blasterborn though instead of shredderborn. I absolutely love shredders but we don't have much room for anti-tank or anti-monster outside of dissies and blasters.

For me i want to see how void raven's Dark Scythes do as i've never used anything but void lance in 8th yet and i have 2 void ravens (was trying to keep it WYSIWYG somewhat. I feel like it'd be a good alternative to dissie cannons i hope.

I like covens but if i had to prefer a list i wanted it'd be hitting hard and fast so i think taking those skyweaver haywire bikes would be good even if it's soup. Sure i'll ask beforehand but i feel this will work out. Even covens + harlies would be pretty nasty the way i'd run it since harlies will fight the vehicles and grots would be anti-infantry/anti-monster. I may use scourge with shardcarbines in this list too for some anti-infantry fire support.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Well it looks LIKELY that I'll get my Scourges back from the guy whose painting them tomorrow? So if I do, I will officially be able to play my Dark Eldar Brigade again. I played DE 12 times when the index dropped, won them all and then played other stuff and havent gotten a game in since the codex dropped, albeit I have of course fought them.

So I'm kinda excited, kinda not. The Codex isn't made, really, for one DE faction type armies and so I am going to be kinda shoe horning it to work. On one hand I love a good challenge but on the other, I kinda created my own rep to live up to and I don't know if the list will do that.

Is anyone here a Coven specific player? No other ones thrown in, just straight up Coven?

A whole Brigade at the 2000 pt level is my ultimate objective.
Three Scourge units will be included.
Three Ravagers for heavy support.
Elite - I don't know.

If you just want to fill the elite slots to get to a brigade, I would suggest just taking 3 Lhameans outside of a court. That’s only 45 points, and they can ride around with an Archon in a Venom and give him a little extra close combat “oomph.”

If you’re looking for something a bit more substantial, I would probably take Mandrakes. They are actually a pretty solid unit - I have used them a few times, and they seem reasonably costed for what they bring to the table.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I have played coven heavy lists a ton of times. I have play any different lists as well, 3 Reaper list, Tantalus, Lots of Wracks, etc..

1) 2 Haemonculus with 2 relics, Mask and Helm, both are very good
2) Always play with Urien
3) Lots and lots of Grotesques makes it work better
4) A Battalion is easy, and a Spearhead works great
5) At least take 1 10 man Wrack unit, the Stratagem can be very useful.

My Normal full coven list is

Battalion PoF

Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Ele Whip, Vex Mask
Urien - WL
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x10, Hexrifle, Ele whip
Grots x9
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Raider - PGL
Raider - PGL

Dark Creed Spearhead
Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Helm of Spite
Reaper
Reaper
Reaper

There is 22pts left over, can easily take away a couple rifles to add a 10 grot.

Tho I personally like it, b.c i focus on scare tactics, with 5 Hex rifles and Reapers able to Snipe characters, i hope to stop lts of the aura hammer and special characters doing things, rush my Meat mountain up and spread out the Wracks to objectives/DS blocking/Character protection.

But i would rather use Ravagers, i do play mono games and i adopted to reapers.

OK Great! Glad to hear theres some pure coven folk around.
I agree about the 1 max sized Wracks. I did build one unit like that, the rest all have ossefactors and Hexrifles. 2 Hammies and Uriah, you betcha! I have two full boats full of Grotesques.
small Mandrak Squad. 3 hard hitting Scourges. 3 talos, and 3 raider

 Jancoran wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I have played coven heavy lists a ton of times. I have play any different lists as well, 3 Reaper list, Tantalus, Lots of Wracks, etc..

1) 2 Haemonculus with 2 relics, Mask and Helm, both are very good
2) Always play with Urien
3) Lots and lots of Grotesques makes it work better
4) A Battalion is easy, and a Spearhead works great
5) At least take 1 10 man Wrack unit, the Stratagem can be very useful.

My Normal full coven list is

Battalion PoF

Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Ele Whip, Vex Mask
Urien - WL
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x5, Hexrifle
Wracks x10, Hexrifle, Ele whip
Grots x9
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Talos x3, HWB, Macro, Flail
Raider - PGL
Raider - PGL

Dark Creed Spearhead
Haemonculus - , Hex Rifle, Helm of Spite
Reaper
Reaper
Reaper

There is 22pts left over, can easily take away a couple rifles to add a 10 grot.

Tho I personally like it, b.c i focus on scare tactics, with 5 Hex rifles and Reapers able to Snipe characters, i hope to stop lts of the aura hammer and special characters doing things, rush my Meat mountain up and spread out the Wracks to objectives/DS blocking/Character protection.

But i would rather use Ravagers, i do play mono games and i adopted to reapers.

OK Great! Glad to hear theres some pure coven folk around.
I agree about the 1 max sized Wracks. I did build one unit like that, the rest all have ossefactors and Hexrifles. 2 Hammies and Uriah, you betcha! I have two full boats full of Grotesques.
small Mandrak Squad. 3 hard hitting Scourges. 3 talos, and 3 raider

Yeah your list is completely fine, i tried Ossefactors for a long time, i just dont like them, the character pressure helped a lot more, so many little support characters that only has 4-5 wounds.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Yeah your list is completely fine, i tried Ossefactors for a long time, i just dont like them, the character pressure helped a lot more, so many little support characters that only has 4-5 wounds.

Well the ossefactors kind of made it in because i took a step back fro mthe list and said "you know...these Wracks are NOT going to contribute much other than "Obsec". So how do I at least make them relevant more. And the attraction is that units like Custodes are sooooooo hard to put wounds on that the chance at extra mortals is REALLY attractive. Wounding on 2's, and potentially an extra mortal wound here and there with the Snipers sort of doing the same? It's just a great little bonus against super elite things. It can take an inordinate amount of firepower to get one wound off of some things. Mortarian for example. While a singular ossefactor may not seem like much, you never know what the D6 on a Darklance will yield you and those extra wounds just to nibble and make up for the sometimes disappointing results of D6 weapons (not every time of course) is just...attractive. They are kinda like a specialized Sniper rifle, kinda sorta kinda (no sniper rule of course).

So this is the list I have planned currently. Haywire on the Talos is an option. Not sure about it. Meta is infantry heavy and multi-wound models are a thing (looking at you Bullgryn/Broadsides/bolter bikers/whatever) so...

Dark Eldar Prophets of Flesh Brigade (15 CP)
Haemonculus (WARLORDTRAIT: Master Artisan, Haemonculus Tools+Hexrifle, Vexxator Mask)
Haemonculus (Haemonculus Tools+Hexrifle)
Urien Rakarth
8 Wracks (Liquifier Gun, Acothyst w/ Electrocorrosive Whip)
5 Wracks (Acothyst w/ HexRifle, 1x Ossefactor)
5 Wracks (Acothyst w/ HexRifle, 1x Ossefactor)
5 Wracks (Acothyst w/ HexRifle, 1x Ossefactor)
5 Wracks (Acothyst w/ HexRifle, 1x Ossefactor)
5 Wracks (Acothyst w/ HexRifle, 1x Ossefactor)
5 Grotesques
5 Grotesques
5 Mandrakes
5 Scourges (4 Blasters)
5 Scourges (4 Heat Lances)
5 Scouges (3 Dark Lances)
Talos (Ichor Injector, Talos Gauntlet, 2 Heat Lances)
Talos (Ichor Injector, Talos Gauntlet, 2 Heat Lances)
Talos (Ichor Injector, Talos Gauntlet, 2 Heat Lances)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon)

I think i've said this a lot by now with the whole harlie soup. I think i will run 10 grotesques, at least 6 skyweavers with haywire cannons and use 30 shardcarbine scourge (or various warriors and trueborn or something) and maybe use something else.

According to the harlie stratagems i can advance with the bikes and get 3+ inv. saves to them and another allowed me an extra -1 to hit on top of their normal -1 to hit. So a total of -2 to be hit, 3++ inv. save provided i advance and if i take 'Soaring Spite' i can advance with assault weapons without penalty. I can always run this as a patrol detachment with 6 skyweavers in one unit because the stratagems only go on one unit a turn. May as well make it super tough to kill. I could also use the 7" move stratagem if i'm worried they'll get stuck in combat or something. Anyway it should be absurd but good unless someone does mortal wounds.

I apologize if this is Soup and i'm not writing it in the Harlie thread but i think i will still mainly use dark eldar. If nothing else i will need to spam warriors (possibly in transports) for extra points. Shedderborn sound a little pricey and i could use a decent size force for command points at least.

To be clear i only will use a Soup list if my opponent also uses Soup, uses Forge World or uses Knights.

I use DE and Harlequins a lot, as they are my main armies.

Im in a huge knight meta for tournaments, so for ITC i ran them as Ynnari (that will change now), but normally as Soaring Spite for non tournaments.

They are all but unkillable if you have the CP for them, its 3-4CP a turn, but they will live all game. Sometimes you opponent will not even try to fight them b.c of it.

Against a good player they will force you to use up your CP quickly then kill them later, forcing you to use CP then focus on a different unit, while doing MW's to the bikes if able to.

The beauty of them with DE is, you have Ravagers, Grots and RWJF's all around at the same time, you are forcing you opponent to react to all of them at once. It is very fun and what i play for non tournaments (I need the double shooting HWC's as my local tournaments has 2-3 knights in many lists with mech marines and mech necrons)

As of today, Doom/Jinx/Reveal will no longer work on non-Asuryani units, so Jetseer allies got far less favourable for Drukhari.
Personally am a fan of this change, as soup has never been my favourite way to play 40k, especially in this case since it makes little sense in lore.

I assume this will have a decent effect on how people run DE soup?

(On the plus side, no more 3+ Knights from rotate ion shields though.)

Nah, not really. It was over kill for me, i killed 2 T8/24 wound knights in 1 turn with Doom, re-roll hits, and shoot twice with Skyweavers.

It was stupidly strong, but now if we want Doom we can just play as Ynnari, they got Doom for Ynnari only. So its not that big of a deal.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Nah, not really. It was over kill for me, i killed 2 T8/24 wound knights in 1 turn with Doom, re-roll hits, and shoot twice with Skyweavers.

It was stupidly strong, but now if we want Doom we can just play as Ynnari, they got Doom for Ynnari only. So its not that big of a deal.

Doom but for melee only so its a really nerfed version.
I still think that these changes to ynnari/aeldari soup are a good thing for the game

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Nah, not really. It was over kill for me, i killed 2 T8/24 wound knights in 1 turn with Doom, re-roll hits, and shoot twice with Skyweavers.

It was stupidly strong, but now if we want Doom we can just play as Ynnari, they got Doom for Ynnari only. So its not that big of a deal.

Doom but for melee only so its a really nerfed version.
I still think that these changes to ynnari/aeldari soup are a good thing for the game

Didn't the WD say replace all the Craftworld, Drukhari etc keywords in datasheet with Ynnari? In which case keyword in doom would also get replaced=works on all ynnari units.

Could be wrong though.

He worded that poorly. He means their is a doom like power available to Ynarri, not that Ynarri work around this new limitation on THE doom power.

 Red Corsair wrote:
He worded that poorly. He means their is a doom like power available to Ynarri, not that Ynarri work around this new limitation on THE doom power.

But doesn't the original doom work for ynnari as well provided farseer is ynnari one? Or can't the farseers use original spells at all if they are ynnari?

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He worded that poorly. He means their is a doom like power available to Ynarri, not that Ynarri work around this new limitation on THE doom power.

But doesn't the original doom work for ynnari as well provided farseer is ynnari one? Or can't the farseers use original spells at all if they are ynnari?

The original doom worked for anything. If you somehow could take nids with a side of doom seer it worked. (BTW this could happen in doubles games)

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He worded that poorly. He means their is a doom like power available to Ynarri, not that Ynarri work around this new limitation on THE doom power.

But doesn't the original doom work for ynnari as well provided farseer is ynnari one? Or can't the farseers use original spells at all if they are ynnari?

Ynnari Farseers can't take their normal spells, they have to use the Revenant discipline instead.

 Burnage wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
He worded that poorly. He means their is a doom like power available to Ynarri, not that Ynarri work around this new limitation on THE doom power.

But doesn't the original doom work for ynnari as well provided farseer is ynnari one? Or can't the farseers use original spells at all if they are ynnari?

Ynnari Farseers can't take their normal spells, they have to use the Revenant discipline instead.

Right, and up until today you could just take a doomseer from another slot and buff all the ynnari things, but now you cannot.

As a dark eldar purist since 8th began I am happy with the changes. Doomseers were part of the reason dissy boats had such a bad rep. They are still amazing, but not unhinged broken.

Hey guys... more questions...

Groteques: Has anyone played them? (I'm assuming from prophet of pain??).

How do you play them? WWP them for turn 2 mayhem? Full squad? Are they worth it?

I only have 3 Groteques and they're rather pricey to get 7 more...

Thoughts?