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Posted By Phryxis on 09/02/2007 9:51 PM

Phryxis Yep, never played them. I would bash your raeindg skills, thou smilpe mistake like that cost you the game.

Uhhhhm. Did you really just criticize my "raeindg" skills? Seriously? Dude, there are seven letters in the word "reading" and you managed to put five of them in the wrong place.

This is hands down the funniest thing I have ever read on a forum, and I used to hang out on the warcraft forums.

By the way, this guy seems to be using a lot of warcraft lingo like dps, mobs and the like.  Wonder if maybe he's done to much of the crack.....

Cogito

Posted By Phryxis on 09/02/2007 9:51 PM

Phryxis Yep, never played them. I would bash your raeindg skills, thou smilpe mistake like that cost you the game.

Uhhhhm. Did you really just criticize my "raeindg" skills? Seriously? Dude, there are seven letters in the word "reading" and you managed to put five of them in the wrong place.

You are better at gibberish -> english than me, I never was very good at foreign languages. I kept translating that as 'rending skills'

He clearly needs to improve his rending skills then. Longer nails perhaps?

To Tarval.

How many detachments are you using? Are you using the two troops and an HQ then onto the the next detachment 'loophole'? It could generate the firepower you need to claim the effect you want, but if so nids could do this too and do it a whole lot nastier.

Your master list that r0xx0rs over nidzilla doesn't exist, and you are hoping someone will post one which you will adopt and claim is just like yours. The trouble is noone will because we dont think it can reliably be done.

Hey everyone, the more that I read the more I realize the earlier comment about age is appropriate.

Tarval is most likely young and not very experienced. It seems that english may be his second language (and Kudos to you Tarval for what you do get right.)

Tarval you could benefit from a spell check. And again Thou means you, not though.

And one more comment on:



Not only reading but simple, the failure to pluralize mistakes, and the incorrect usage of thou. These are all those small details in real life that cause you to lose things like games.

Either Tarval is a comic genius or someone just smacked him with the irony hammer one too many times in the face.

Orion

Although there is some (twisted) enjoyment to be found in 8+ pages of  "Dakka VS Tarval", I have a big bug question of my own, but let's start with a noob alert:

Although I do think that I understand the basic concept of the nidzilla list, I have no actual experience with, or against it. Actually I don't have any notable tournament experience whatsoever (the bugs will be my first tournament level army, if I ever finish building and painting them...)

I understood from the useful part of this thread that at 1500 a choirzilla army with stealers does not have any room for raveners. Therefore I reasoned that, since my concept list does have stealers and raveners, I probably have skipped too many upgrades (only 1 tyrant guard, no implant attack and other upgrades for the tyrants and no 5th wound for the sniperfexes). Is having only 30 toughness 6 wounds enough at 1500 points?

The actual list:

Hive Tyrant (2 Scything talons,Winged, Toxin sacs, Flesh hooks, Psychic scream)           

Hive Tyrant (Venom cannon, Twin-linked devourer, Enhanced senses, Toxin sacs, Psychic scream, Flesh hooks)

Tyrant guard (lash whips and flesh hooks)

 

Carnifex (2 Twin-linked devourer, Enhanced senses, Flesh hooks)

Carnifex (2 Twin-linked devourer, Enhanced senses, Flesh hooks)

Carnifex (2 Twin-linked devourer, Enhanced senses)

 

6 Genestealers

6 Genestealers

           

Ravener            (Scything talons & Rending Claws)

Ravener            (Scything talons & Rending Claws)

Ravener            (Scything talons & Rending Claws)           

           

Carnifex (Venom cannon, Barbed Strangler, Enhanced senses)

Carnifex (Venom cannon, Barbed Strangler, Enhanced senses)

           

Zoanthrope (Psychic scream, Warp blast)

Zoanthrope (Psychic scream, Warp blast)   

Zoanthrope (Psychic scream, Synapse creature)         

 

Total    1500

I doubt this will work but would the new Chaos Termies stand a chance against Nidzilla if they did a combi-plasma deep strike with Abbadon?

I wulod jsut lkie to say tahnk all for the caht. I hvae eeoyjnd it tuhs far and I hpoe it keep ginog. A long time ago, I got this email from a friend. It talked about the mind and how the mind can still read the word even thou the center parts of the wrod are changed anourd. Tihs olny wrkos wtih wrdos taht hvae mroe tahn fuor lteerts. I hope this hlpes you udnsreatnd waht I was syanig aoubt radenig.

2nd ed WD is the WD that I am talking about. Way back in 2nd ed, you could not take combat squads. You had to pay for a full ten man squad. That WD allowed you to take just five men with one upgrade. It was then that I changed to combat squads.  In the day, 10 men was all that you could buy. It was really hard to just have troops in your army because the str of a character. The character would just charge across the board and smack into the squad. Thus taking out a good amount of points in your army.  They have really changed that format so that leaders are no longer that strong of the army.

six men las/plas is an MM squad, not a combat squad. A combat squad is five men with one upgrade which they have finally started to bring back to the game. I run combat squads with just basic upgrades in a vanil army. Granted you would not call it a combat squad because its just half of the unit. I call it a combat squad because that is the way is has been called before you started 40k, I take?

So, I told you my list before and I will say it again. FOC with 17 units at 1850 full of five men in each unit with a basic upgrade. My dev units run two upgrades because they can pick four item in a full unit. Lot of people hate the list and have called it chz-e/mm because of the units being five men. I have to inform them that I have a well balanced list and you just don't see it. MM is min/maxing a unit, my army is built around min/min the unit. If you add the gear up, you could easly have a DA codex. It does not fuction like a DA codex because of the FOC chart.

Leader, # 1

Leader plus a combat squad 5 men. # 2

Vet squad, # 3

vet squad, # 4

vet squad, # 5

Tact squad, # 6

# 7,8,9,10,11

Assault squad # 12

# 13, 14

Dev squad # 15

# 16 # 17.

Pick your upgrades and remember about placement when you do pick your upgrades. Not everything will be upgraded to your liking. Remember its not the sum of its parts but the whole of the list that makes it work. Each item bring another part into play. Each units allows another unit a tactical advantage. You have 17 units to place on the board and will burn almost any oppenet out of set up. This in turn allows you to take advantage of fire lines and to remove threats via infiltrate, and other forms of threats as well. Each item works with the other, thus allowing the whole to function better then the sum. There are even more tactics to this list that I could go into detail but then again most of it you can figure out.

When the WD hit the shelf, I about died because it allowed you a tactical advantage in the form of assault. You could lower you death ratio, in turn allowing you to finish off what just hit your lines. I no longer had to worry about the hth Tyrant from hell that tied up 10 men. When the Tyrant did hit my lines, he would kill the unit, or he would force them to fall back. When a small unit like this fell back, it allowed me to unleash hell into that unit that just assaulted it. Now combat squads started in 2ed, so I don't think this ED invented combat squads. He did however look at putting MM on the board. Thou a lot of people did MM as well, but you would take hit in the form of spot points award for it.

I have always talked in Gib Cogito, because we are on the internet. We use part of the word because the meaning is still intact. If you are new to the net, then these meaning will be hard for you to understand.

Blackmoor, I am sorry because I have looked all over and tried this so called quotes and have yet to have it work. maybes it because I am always on the board via this old computer at work.  If you have read up on my post, then you understand what I was talking about. Well balanced list that is pure footslogging can work and does work. My army only has so many heavy weapon in it, after that its assault weapons and onto hth.

Btw Blackmoor, I do enjoy the WD only if it has 40k in it. If has a lot of warhammer and or now LOTR in it. I tend to skip it unless it has something that I might want to read a few times. Yes, there are other things in the WD that I look at as well. How somebody might of based a model, how they used a color on an item. Hell, its better than painting a model to see what it looks like.  WD has a lot to offer if it falls under the subject I like. Then again it also gives you Ideas for the next model to make. 

Blackmoor Everybody is so set on six men with a lascannon and a plasma gun that they dont try to find another way to play. I myself have played many time vs a MM unit and just swamped it with men. Most of the people that play MM dont really play troop heavy. If they did that would change the game for me. Posting this information will change the game as well. People will read up and see that DA or BA all on foot is really not a bad army once it is all split up. I myself will have no problem changing my format to fit in the new SM codex. It will however change my set up because of less units to place. Thou it will allow me a few new options to play. I will be able to have four, five men dev squads with heavy bolters.

Back in 94 I picked up a tech marines because they required in 2nd ed to run trantullas. I also had Fabius Bile as well because I liked the model and used him for my warhammer undead army. Well I had the back pack left over and added that to the tec marine. I then used Fabius Bile gun item as my weilding tourch on my right arm. I also cut off some of the servitor's power arms and added it to the back pack. I wanted a tech Marine that looked like he had a lot of friggin work to do. People just loved the model and I have it posted on myspace as well.  I sometimes think that todays Tech Marine could of been founded via my tech Marine model. The world got around the world in the form of something, and somebody turned him into what he is today. Granted I have no use for him now because they just dont pan out like they use to. Thou I am thinking about taking a pure techmarine horde army. Like the novel I read awhile back from the 40k book line.

Myspace link cause it to space out real bad, thus I removed it and will just say that if you want to see the Tech Marine with a lot of work to do. Myspace and look for Walter Vaughn in Watauga, TX. You can see the pics of some of my other item I have as well. My new chaplin will be post in a bit once I finish up some of the add on item to him. He will still need to be based and painted....

There are a few other models as well that I am working on. Thou my new chapling will be posted soon nuff. I just ahh shocked at how he looks thus far. I cant wait to finish him up, but first I need to order some magnets.

Chew on the workings of the list, chew and look at what you can now field instead of what you have always fielded. You now have a new path to follow instead of what other have placed before you. I can see some of you already getting your codex out and pointing up a list following my format. You will find that armies are hard pressed to face this list once you understand the tactics. Almost everybody that you play for the first time will be ahh shocked out how many marines they have to hack down. How they have to focus a lot of their fire power in order to remove threats like a five man lascannon combat squad. Only to find that the Multi Melta that moved last turn is now in cripple range to open the tank with ease.

Few that I have talked with in the past just loved the idea of horde. Once guy even went all out with BA and pure troops. 900 +vets cost for just 60 men, 60 men that when they charge hit at str 5 and have int 5. Dont forget the power weapon/fist in the unit. Thou this has all changed because of the rhino rush being removed. This list use to be my toughest threat, being that he could get into my ranks with guys that saved just like me. He had the advantage of hth and I had the shooting.

Orion 44, I just wanted to say that I am sorry that my spelling and grammer are not up to par. I was never any good at spelling and grammer. I did not understand it because of the way it was presented to me. I hated english and found it a waste of time. If somebody has shown me the way with a book that I liked, then english would of had a whole new meaning to it. It was not until I was 19 that I found things that I liked. That time on I was changed forever. 

You talk about math, that this is the reason you list will work. That stats tell you that this will be the outcome.  I just want to inform you all that I have not lost a game. I have played a lot of armies many, many time. I have charged head long into the jaws of death only to pull out the win in the end. Four MC did not crush my list via a massive assault in the middle of the board. So why on earth would eight MC put a end to my list. I am looking at what I have faced and taking that into account. You have nothing that will tie my army up because your list is a shooting army. I look at the fact that my army was in hth and tied up and still was able to bring fire to the boards. I look at the fact that my basic weapon in my combat squad will be able to inflict wounds on your units. That if you do move into the kill zone to assault, you will only find a few men to hack down. After that I will burn that unit down, why because I have done it to many times. Math plus exp tells me that I have a really good chance of removing two a turn, and im able to handle this list.

How many times have you failed to rend a unit?  Rend is like watching an assault cannon heavy army try to bring down a Land Raider. Well, you got four rends from the gen and I lost four guys. My last guy died because he failed his save. I just lost my combat squad, and you have nothing to do now. Guess will just have to take out the unit of gens. It not like I talk about this as joke, its that it has happened to many times. I lost a combat squad and now you have just lost your gen unit. Far trade?, 90 points for a full unit of gens?

Well, I think this will do for now. I do hope we can keep chant n about the topic. I do hope you all understand that it is not that I am just pulling this out of my arsk. Its that I have done it to many times in the past. Three landraiders vs zilla is a joke, and I enjoyed doing what the zilla list does. All three landraiders died and on turn two and the game ended because he said it was pointless to play on. Walking termies over to my side was pointless to play on. The guy was correct, you know he was. He just did not expect something like this to pop up.

 

Thanks all, hope some of you enjoy the new tactics out of your new list. I know I have and the one reason I have simi posted it.

Uhhh...



Dear god.

Anyone up for taking a collection to fly this guy form DFW to Baltimore for the GT to see how his army does?

Out of curiousity why isn't Lysanderwing more popular in tournies? It seems like one of the more effective builds vs Nidzilla or Mech Eldar.

Lysanderwing is actually a pretty good army if played well. However most people don't equip their termies with heavy flamers in this list which is something that it would need against horde armies. Also those termies can't assault on the turn that they land. Many times they can be overwhelmed by just plain hormagaunts who get to charge them and spine gaunts who get off a full volley and then can assault can usually whittle a few terms out of a unit.

And as for this army vs. eldar, the eldar are often too mobile to have to worry more than one turn about all those termies facing rear armor or such things. In many armies having the things you need to kill show up where you don't have to chase them down can be an advantage to the eldar. Lastly many of the experienced mech armies will keep thier rear armor to the board edges until lysander arrives.

I have played against this army many times as one of my good friends plays this. He can win against most opponents a time or two until they get used to the list and then they can prepare for what he will do because it just has the one large trick to use.

Its rather like a nid choir list or fear of the darkness in that respect. Once you get used to what it can do it ceases to intimidate.

Orion

LOL. IF THEY WERE KING US ENGLISH WOULD BE SAYING 'GOD SAVE OUR GRACIOUS NECRONS' Which were not so....LOL

Nidzilla frigging owns Lysander. 24" range == one round of shooting before it's Dakkafex and -5Ld time and Ravener time.

One round of shooting is not enough against nidz in cover.

Here's the list that I have used effectively, time and again, to defeat NidZillas.  Please, by all means, do the math and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Pan-Fo

HQ:  Brainiaker w/ Acid Shot, Rend Remover, Winged Legs and Soupy Carapace  - 121

Elite:  3 Deathslicers w/ Sonic Facemaker, 2 x Pheromic Jawtrap - 287

Troops:  2 units of 8 x Buntblunders w/ 1 x Stompshot, 1 x Gasflare - 488

28 x Skittlybarbs - 140

Heavy Support:  Fluxtangous w/ Multi-Glazebeam Cannon - 190

2 x Thoraxbenders w/ Extra Dusters, Wattleblaster - 270

Total Points: 1496

Fluxtangous are so OP.

Dam link to myspace mested up my post. Oh well, thou I see the post has come to a close now. Darn, and I was thinking that I would hear some more stuff. Got a few things to take care of thus I have to run.

Posted By Iorek on 09/04/2007 10:28 AM
Here's the list that I have used effectively, time and again, to defeat NidZillas.  Please, by all means, do the math and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Pan-Fo

HQ:  Brainiaker w/ Acid Shot, Rend Remover, Winged Legs and Soupy Carapace  - 121

People who have done the math say that a Brainiaker has to be equiped with a Nebanian Corstar to be any good at killing MEQs.

Elite:  3 Deathslicers w/ Sonic Facemaker, 2 x Pheromic Jawtrap - 287

These are a great unit, and the Facemakers are worth every point.

Troops:  2 units of 8 x Buntblunders w/ 1 x Stompshot, 1 x Gasflare - 488

I don't really like Buntblunders. I think it is worth it to pay the extra 5 points to upgrade them to Suntblunders

28 x Skittlybarbs - 140

I have never been able to get Skittlybarbs to work for me. If they work for you, then more power to you. Mine normally fail their target identification check, and attack my own units. I guess I can buy them some Crax Antennas to help with the test, but then they start to get too expensive.

Heavy Support:  Fluxtangous w/ Multi-Glazebeam Cannon - 190

I like Flaxtangous because the Multi-Glazebeam Cannon can almost win you a game by itself.

2 x Thoraxbenders w/ Extra Dusters, Wattleblaster - 270

I like these units for holding objectives,  But as far as arming them goes, it really depends on what you fight. If you face a lot of infantry, I find that Coozcaters work better with the Extra Dusters. But if you fight a lot of Mech armies, you want to arm your Thoraxbenders with a Morak Dex to go with your Wattleblaster.

Posted By Blackmoor on 09/04/2007 11:50 PM

Posted By Iorek on 09/04/2007 10:28 AM

Heavy Support:  Fluxtangous w/ Multi-Glazebeam Cannon - 190

I like Flaxtangous because the Multi-Glazebeam Cannon can almost win you a game by itself.

Dude, youre a total noob if you think that crap works.

Better run the numbers again.

But what do I know? Youre the guy playing DA at the next GT... *snicker*

Cheh, another internet Pan-Fo clone. The 3/2 Deathslicer combo was originally posted at the Super Duper Forum, back in 06.

2 Buntblunders? I guess you've just given up on comp entirely, eh? Throw sportsmanship out while your at it, I can't believe there's someone who would kit their Brianiaker with Rend Removers. What was GW smoking when they wrote the Pan Fo codex?

How are you going to model the Wattleblaster?


So what did I miss, when did the Pan-Fo become officially "REVILED"?

Posted By whitedragon on 09/05/2007 10:50 AM
How are you going to model the Wattleblaster?


So what did I miss, when did the Pan-Fo become officially "REVILED"?

It started when Jervis Johnson wrote their 4th edition codex. The Pan-Fo became the powergamers choice since they made Iron Warriors look fluffy. With all of the cheesy combos, the army just about ran itself.  

Jervis took so much flack from the 40k community for overpowering them, that he swore to never again to write a codex that was very powerful. His next codexes were Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Chaos, so you can see for yourself the backlash over the Pan-Fo.  

I have not yet palyed against this Pan-Fo but based on what your saying I think my list can beat them easily. Why because of troops choices. I have six while others may have as few as two or not at all.

Last RTT played Pan-Fo sorta but because of time reasons there was only a draw thou I had a crushing victory. Thanks Dave! My troops choices walked into the valley of death an so much shooting came from them it wasn't even funny thou I had to luagh. Your arm needs Flux and Glaze to win but mine only needs troops. Tell me how are you can beat that bud?

Sorry to many people here this baord think Pan-Fo can't lose but they can where my troops never did! This is a fact that can't be ignored unlike maths and big talk about Glase that you cant even field in six troops. All the math you have wont make 10% more of wins out of anything and you can have that seven times if you want.

Great chat guys thax for I have a long shift tonite will post more then after get boils lanced.

That was so funny I nearly blew my drink out of my backside.

Can someone revile the link for the Pan-Fo codex please.

http://www.games-workshop.com/us/store/PanFo.asp

yeah somehow I dont think that link is good.

Posted By bebepaquito on 09/06/2007 3:52 PM
yeah somehow I dont think that link is good.

What are you talking about?  That link was awesome!  Mmmmm, pies....[drools]

Posted By bebepaquito on 09/06/2007 3:52 PM
yeah somehow I dont think that link is good.

Hey, it's totally work safe!

Unless you work for Weight Watchers.

I guess its time to say good bye to the topic. I have not checked the boards in a few days, because my email showed nothing. Well, I hope to face the list and see ya on the next topic....