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Does the FRFSRF specifically say "Any model with a lasgun" or "Models with any lasgun"? If it is the former then I believe it is only referring to the single gun known as the Lasgun. If it is the latter then I believe it then applies to the Hotshot Lasgun.

My logic being that while the hotshot lasgun may qualify as a type of lasgun, without the qualifier of "any lasgun" then I'm pretty sure the RAI is the same as the RAW as in NO FRFSRF applicability.

As I don't have a codex to look at I'll need that little bit of information before I can decide one way or another.

Lasgun is not a group of weapons, but a single weapon described in the IG book.

As such, any rules that refer to a Lasgun, refer only to that weapon. In order to extend a rule to other weapons (regardless of how close in name they are to a Lasgun) the rule would have to specifically mention them.

Similarily, heavy bolters are not bolters for the purposes of special rules that mention bolters.

MrDrumMachine wrote:As I don't have a codex to look at I'll need that little bit of information before I can decide one way or another.

Here are the relevant parts:

IG Codex p.36 wrote:...models firing lasguns fire three shots, rather than just two. If the unit did not move in its Movement phase they fire two shots with their lasguns at an enemy up to 24" away...

thank you unistoo, since that is the case I'll have to say that FRFSRF does not apply as the sentence would read (if we were talking about a single model rather than multipel) "a model firing a lasgun," which to me means it applies only to the weapon known as the Lasgun.

Well in any case, majority rule voted "no" in the pole above. That's evidence enough for me.

im in the camp that thinks that a storm bolter and a bolter should both be able to take special ammo. thats why i think you should be able to FRFSRF with the hotshot

Bad news for you: Games Workshop is in the seperate-weapon-Stormbolter camp.

Its such a shame a unit of (non-terminator) marines all stormbolter armed would be nice, but its such a big downgrade for sternguard, who're naturally the only ones who can do it.

Really they need to be -5 points for stormbolters...then we might see that option more.

Jack

I think it mainly applies to deamonhunters, whose Grey Knights standard power-armor troops have stormbolters.

Pika_power wrote:Bad news for you: Games Workshop is in the seperate-weapon-Stormbolter camp.

it turns out that im ok with that. all i wanted to give my termie captain's storm bolter hellfire rounds. it seems that you can already do that. with that being the case the hotshot will prolly be FAQ'd saying they cant. i think they should because S3 is garbage. AP3 wont do squat if you fail 90% of the rolls-to-wound

The Angry Commissar wrote:

Pika_power wrote:Bad news for you: Games Workshop is in the seperate-weapon-Stormbolter camp.

it turns out that im ok with that. all i wanted to give my termie captain's storm bolter hellfire rounds. it seems that you can already do that. with that being the case it will prolly be FAQ'd saying they cant. i think they should because S3 is garbage. AP3 wont do squat if you fail 90% of the rolls-to-wound

No, you can buy the hellfire rounds, but you won't be able to fire them.

Gwar! wrote:

The Angry Commissar wrote:

Pika_power wrote:Bad news for you: Games Workshop is in the seperate-weapon-Stormbolter camp.

it turns out that im ok with that. all i wanted to give my termie captain's storm bolter hellfire rounds. it seems that you can already do that. with that being the case it will prolly be FAQ'd saying they cant. i think they should because S3 is garbage. AP3 wont do squat if you fail 90% of the rolls-to-wound

No, you can buy the hellfire rounds, but you won't be able to fire them.

I've wanted to use this for a while ....

Wait... How does a captain get the "special ammunition" wargear? I'm confused.

That's like the 3rd time It has been used because of me. I officially declare this a new meme!

Red_Lives wrote:Wait... How does a captain get the "special ammunition" wargear? I'm confused.

Space marine Chapter Masters or Captains can Take Hellfire rounds at 10pts. "Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a bolter"

Red_Lives wrote:Wait... How does a captain get the "special ammunition" wargear? I'm confused.

Captains and Chapter masters may take Hellfire Rounds, but they may only be fired from a bolter. They can buy them even if they have no weapons that can use them. They can even buy them if they take terminator Armour, and thus CANNOT under any circumstances fire them.

well Derp guess i missed that one. ( i mean who takes generic captains or Chapter masters anyway?)

Red_Lives wrote:well Derp guess i missed that one. ( i mean who takes generic captains or Chapter masters anyway?)

No-one, Especialy Chaplains. Blood Angels have Whats his name, and Cassius is CHEAPER than a normal Chaplain with better equipment and stats, so yeah...

Gwar! wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:well Derp guess i missed that one. ( i mean who takes generic captains or Chapter masters anyway?)

No-one, Especialy Chaplains. Blood Angels have Whats his name, and Cassius is CHEAPER than a normal Chaplain with better equipment and stats, so yeah...

your a LIAR!!!

He's 10 points more as a regular chaplain is 115 with a combi flamer and Cassius is 125!!!

All special characters are better then the generic characters. Its why Eldar plays like my self get so much stick for always using Eldrad.

Red_Lives wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:well Derp guess i missed that one. ( i mean who takes generic captains or Chapter masters anyway?)

No-one, Especialy Chaplains. Blood Angels have Whats his name, and Cassius is CHEAPER than a normal Chaplain with better equipment and stats, so yeah...

your a LIAR!!!

He's 10 points more as a regular chaplain is 115 with a combi flamer and Cassius is 125!!!

Cassiuses Combi Flamer is Master Crafted (+15), has Hellfire rounds (+10), T6 (+Hell if I know) and feel No Pain +(Lots). So yeah, Cassius is cheaper

Except normal chaplains can't take hellfire rounds! So that value turns to X as well!!

Red_Lives wrote:Except normal chaplains can't take hellfire rounds! So that value turns to X as well!!

They can't take Master Crafting either, but I am saying that for +10 points you get so, so much, that Cassius is by and far a Cheaper Choice.

It would make absolutely no difference if you chose to fire special ammunition out of a stormbolter as the ammo has a weapons profile.
using it would change the stormbolter to a rapid fire weapon with the relevant range/strength/ap of the round.
All you've done is make your sternguard 5pts more expensive.
well done!

No!

marv335 wrote:It would make absolutely no difference if you chose to fire special ammunition out of a stormbolter as the ammo has a weapons profile.
using it would change the stormbolter to a rapid fire weapon with the relevant range/strength/ap of the round.
All you've done is make your sternguard 5pts more expensive.
well done!

Except, Errrm, READ THE RULES FOR THE SPECIAL AMMOS!

They can only be Fired out of a Boltgun.

Each special ammunition type replaces the boltgun profile (including boltguns that are part of a combi-weapon) with the one shown here

Boltgun. Not Storm Bolter, Not heavy Bolter. Boltgun.

And from the Hellfire rounds:

If a model carries hellfire rounds, replace their boltgun's profile (including a boltgun on a Space Marine bike) with the following.

See, BOLTGUN!

marv335 wrote:It would make absolutely no difference if you chose to fire special ammunition out of a stormbolter as the ammo has a weapons profile.
using it would change the stormbolter to a rapid fire weapon with the relevant range/strength/ap of the round.
All you've done is make your sternguard 5pts more expensive.
well done!

No by taking a Storm bolter you've made them cost 5pts more and they have not got a "Boltgun" with a standard profile to replace so cannot fire the special ammo

I knew that was coming.

Next someone starts trying to argue stormbolters can use FRFSRF too.

I think you missed my point there Gwar!
While the rules are very clear that the rounds may only be fired from a bolter, my point is that even if you could fire them from a heavy/stormbolter, the ammunition has its own profile which would not change thus making it a moot point.

kirsanth wrote:I knew that was coming.

Next someone starts trying to argue stormbolters can use FRFSRF too.

That's ridiculous.


Lascannons can though