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Wait... are we supposed to think it's cool that the guy spent that much on his costume or not?

I'm confused by that poster.

mandatory:
(seriously tho USA/EU "who can make the most sweeping overgeneralizations about each other" contests need to stop)

Europe's Rape-Face is positioned slightly higher than the American Rape Face?

Are you saying that all European rapists rape while high? Corvus, that's a terrible overgeneralization. I'm sure there are several thousand rapists in Europe that rape while sober.

Bla_Ze wrote:

i suddenly have an urge to make armor like that european guy and larp. oh gawd

Albatross wrote:Wait... are we supposed to think it's cool that the guy spent that much on his costume or not?

I'm confused by that poster.

He didin't buy it. He made it.

I'm sorry my creativity did not please your humor. But its just for fun.

Could have used a pic of myself, but alas i am simply not as cool, even in plate. (yes i larp too, it's quite funny but i have actually roleplayed against the guy in the pic)

metallifan wrote:Europe's Rape-Face is positioned slightly higher than the American Rape Face?

Are you saying that all European rapists rape while high? Corvus, that's a terrible overgeneralization. I'm sure there are several thousand rapists in Europe that rape while sober.

They're not rape faces, they're TROLL FACES! GET IT RIGHT lol

Bla_Ze wrote:

Albatross wrote:Wait... are we supposed to think it's cool that the guy spent that much on his costume or not?

I'm confused by that poster.

He didin't buy it. He made it.

I'm sorry my creativity did not please your humor. But its just for fun.

Could have used a pic of myself, but alas i am simply not as cool, even in plate. (yes i larp too, it's quite funny but i have actually roleplayed against the guy in the pic)

Which means he's living at mom's house...yea color me impressed...not.


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Here's a better comparison

USA! USA! USA!


ITALY! ITALY! ITALY! (europe)


Two countries, one passion.

Pah!

Aston Martin Vanquish. How cool is that name, by the way! 'Vanquish'!

ShumaGorath wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Cane wrote:Everyone's got their own standards of geekness but imo and probably for most people/geeks; LARPing is on another tier of geekdom than wargaming even for pencil and paper veterans in a similar way that video gamers may view tabletop wargamers. At least everyone can poke fun at the furries though.

Kinda like being a fan of a sport. Some will casually watch, play fantasy leagues, some heckle the players/fans/etc, others buy a jersey, get autographs, others collect everything they can, and some will show up to a game half-naked covered in paint while getting drunk to the point of running on the field.

I think this is more honest than the "all geeks are equal" idea.

Personally, if I think of my non-gaming friends, it'd almost certainly be easiest to get them into video gaming. It's practically mainstream nowadays. Next hardest would be tabletop minis. It's really not for everyone. And most difficult would definitely be LARP. Even if I spun it around women and booze, there are other ways to meet women and party that don't involve costumes and acting.

I think you massively overestimate the size of the wargaming market.

How so? Video games (large) => tabletop minis (quite small) => LARP (even smaller).

Never said there wasn't a very big dropoff from video gaming to tabletop. That's obvious. It's also obvious to me that I'd have an easier time convincing a non-gamer to general a High Elf army on the tabletop than to dress up and play the role of Indel Sogbottom, high elf warrior-mage at a LARP event.


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Albatross wrote:Pah!

Aston Martin Vanquish. How cool is that name, by the way! 'Vanquish'!

A while back I made a comparison between GW games and British cars. Both have style and charm, but are always in the shop because of little niggling problems. Some find this a charming quirk, others find it annoying.

[/How so? Video games (large) => tabletop minis (quite small) => LARP (even smaller).

Never said there wasn't a very big dropoff from video gaming to tabletop. That's obvious. It's also obvious to me that I'd have an easier time convincing a non-gamer to general a High Elf army on the tabletop than to dress up and play the role of Indel Sogbottom, high elf warrior-mage at a LARP event.

Oh? Because I'm not so sure. One doesn't require a ludicrous monetary and time investment at the outset as well as a support group of similar players within (at least) driving distance. But then you don't actually have the numbers for either and you seem to discount a significant amount of live action role plays (Do you count costuming of any other form at all? Cosplay? Social games? Or do you only count the dudes in bad wizard costumes shouting blue magic blue magic).

ShumaGorath wrote:

[/How so? Video games (large) => tabletop minis (quite small) => LARP (even smaller).

Never said there wasn't a very big dropoff from video gaming to tabletop. That's obvious. It's also obvious to me that I'd have an easier time convincing a non-gamer to general a High Elf army on the tabletop than to dress up and play the role of Indel Sogbottom, high elf warrior-mage at a LARP event.

Oh? Because I'm not so sure. One doesn't require a ludicrous monetary and time investment at the outset as well as a support group of similar players within (at least) driving distance. But then you don't actually have the numbers for either and you seem to discount a significant amount of live action role plays (Do you count costuming of any other form at all? Cosplay? Social games? Or do you only count the dudes in bad wizard costumes shouting blue magic blue magic).

I dont consider the money you put towards a Wargaming army to be ludicrous... 300$ isnt that bad to be honest. Most MMORPG's cost 50 bucks for the game plus around 180$ in monthly fees per year.
Plus the computer to play said games can easily run you over 600$.

Going to the movies is easily 10-15 bucks a person with snacks...

The thing about wargaming is once oyu have your army your done for the most part. So that 300$ investment could last you years.

I dont consider the money you put towards a Wargaming army to be ludicrous... 300$ isnt that bad to be honest. Most MMORPG's cost 50 bucks for the game plus around 180$ in monthly fees per year.
Plus the computer to play said games can easily run you over 600$.

Going to the movies is easily 10-15 bucks a person with snacks...

The thing about wargaming is once oyu have your army your done for the most part. So that 300$ investment could last you years.

Yes, but at the end of the day it's still largely upfront costs for unmade plastic sprues which you then have to paint (gotta buy that!) get rules for (gotta buy that) glue (gotta buy that) and find others with the same hobby. Sure, 500$ (300 is an extremely conservative estimate) for something that can last years isn't a bad investment, but the investment doesn't stop at the point of purchase and 500 dollars for something you don't even get to use right away is. Who cares if it's barely more expensive than an xbox. You can watch movies on an xbox. All you can do with tiny plastic sprues is look at them and dream.

This is an aside however, and you didn't address my actual point.

I tend to concur with the assessment that it's tough to judge whether more or fewer people LARP v. wargame in the US. Neither is anywhere near videogaming; both are tiny niches in the larger gaming market.

Bla_Ze wrote:

Cute.

However, I've seen several American LARPers with costumes just as good(and better) than that.

ShumaGorath wrote:

[/How so? Video games (large) => tabletop minis (quite small) => LARP (even smaller).

Never said there wasn't a very big dropoff from video gaming to tabletop. That's obvious. It's also obvious to me that I'd have an easier time convincing a non-gamer to general a High Elf army on the tabletop than to dress up and play the role of Indel Sogbottom, high elf warrior-mage at a LARP event.

Oh? Because I'm not so sure. One doesn't require a ludicrous monetary and time investment at the outset as well as a support group of similar players within (at least) driving distance. But then you don't actually have the numbers for either and you seem to discount a significant amount of live action role plays (Do you count costuming of any other form at all? Cosplay? Social games? Or do you only count the dudes in bad wizard costumes shouting blue magic blue magic).

Note that you're adding another factor here that takes the conversation in a different direction. I'm not discussing price of a hobby going forward -- just which hobby a non-gamer/non-geek would be more likely to try first. Imagine you can loan them either a tabletop army or a costume, if that helps.

No doubt it's hard to determine real numbers at work. FYI, my working definition of LARP in this context includes those that are more gaming events -- so wizards throwing bean bags, vampires playing rock-paper-scissors, etc. and not those simply dressing up as their favorite Naruto character or whatever to show their fanhood. If this was 10-15 years ago, I think the vampire LARPers would be a bigger factor, but my impression is that they've dwindled quite a bit.

My opinion remains though that your average non-geek (call him "Norm" the norm) would be more likely to be willing to push some tanks around the table than wear a costume and roleplay. Norm probably isn't interested in either, but if he had to pick one, I think that's how it'd tend to go. LARP has a more immersive quality that I think is more likely to raise people's eyebrows -- whether that's fair or not.

I don't disagree that both wargaming and LARP are small niche geeky hobbies, just so we're clear here.

My opinion remains though that your average non-geek (call him "Norm" the norm) would be more likely to be willing to push some tanks around the table than wear a costume and roleplay. Norm probably isn't interested in either, but if he had to pick one, I think that's how it'd tend to go. LARP has a more immersive quality that I think is more likely to raise people's eyebrows -- whether that's fair or not.

I disagree with that thought, and i believe that you're letting your more intricate knowledge of the wargaming market influence your opinions of one that you do not have such knowledge of.

ShumaGorath wrote:

My opinion remains though that your average non-geek (call him "Norm" the norm) would be more likely to be willing to push some tanks around the table than wear a costume and roleplay. Norm probably isn't interested in either, but if he had to pick one, I think that's how it'd tend to go. LARP has a more immersive quality that I think is more likely to raise people's eyebrows -- whether that's fair or not.

I disagree with that thought, and i believe that you're letting your more intricate knowledge of the wargaming market influence your opinions of one that you do not have such knowledge of.

Actually, I'd suggest it's because I have a healthy number of non-gaming friends and have a pretty good idea of what they'd be more likely to try.

My read on them that is that LARP would have more of a chance if it dropped the "RP". As a game of paintball with sticks instead of markers, it might have a chance. But playing a character, in character, in costume, etc. would likely make it a no go.

gorgon wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

My opinion remains though that your average non-geek (call him "Norm" the norm) would be more likely to be willing to push some tanks around the table than wear a costume and roleplay. Norm probably isn't interested in either, but if he had to pick one, I think that's how it'd tend to go. LARP has a more immersive quality that I think is more likely to raise people's eyebrows -- whether that's fair or not.

I disagree with that thought, and i believe that you're letting your more intricate knowledge of the wargaming market influence your opinions of one that you do not have such knowledge of.

Actually, I'd suggest it's because I have a healthy number of non-gaming friends and have a pretty good idea of what they'd be more likely to try.

My read on them that is that LARP would have more of a chance if it dropped the "RP". As a game of paintball with sticks instead of markers, it might have a chance. But playing a character, in character, in costume, etc. would likely make it a no go.

Your group is not the world. I could point out the same type of anecdotal evidence from my non-gaming group that was more likely to get into LARPing than tabletop. Why? Because the idea of dressing up and playing Live DnD or Steam punk Cowboys(yes, there was a western LARP in Louisiana) appealed to them far more than pushing around little army men. Also, in my experience, any female interested in geeky notions is more likely to do LARP than tabletop(especially if they're anime fans that are into cosplay to begin with).

And yet another OT thread devolves into a never ending argument...

Platuan4th wrote:Your group is not the world. I could point out the same type of anecdotal evidence from my non-gaming group that was more likely to get into LARPing than tabletop. Why? Because the idea of dressing up and playing Live DnD or Steam punk Cowboys(yes, there was a western LARP in Louisiana) appealed to them far more than pushing around little army men. Also, in my experience, any female interested in geeky notions is more likely to do LARP than tabletop(especially if they're anime fans that are into cosplay to begin with).

No, of course my world isn't the world.

But Norm the norm isn't into steampunk, anime or cosplay. You're starting with a presumption of geekiness. I'm approaching this from the outside of geekdom looking in, not inside looking inside. I don't really see any point in arguing this any further, because I stand by my opinion.

Corvus wrote:And yet another OT thread devolves into a never ending argument...

As of yet I don't think any of them have been never ending.

Cheesecat wrote:

metallifan wrote:Are you saying I shouldn't criticize buttsechs until I try it? Or eating people? Or cutting off my arm?

I think I prefer blind criticism if the situation is appropriate.

Also, Cheesecat I just noticed your location - What part of town you in? We should have a game sometime.

I live in the Aberdeen part of town, but I don't game no more. But I'm all for meeting new people (so yeah we should meet sometime).

Right on. Have you been into High Octane's forums yet? Yea I know, FLGS - gaming isn't part of it for ya - But gotta support local business
http://www.highoctanecomics.com/forum/index.php

Check it out if you get a chance man I'm on there under the same username.

Platuan4th wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:

Cute.

However, I've seen several American LARPers with costumes just as good(and better) than that.

Yey, now it's a dick waving competition!

And, to chime in..

ShumaGorath wrote:

Corvus wrote:And yet another OT thread devolves into a never ending argument...

As of yet I don't think any of them have been never ending.

Thats because the mods come and lock them once they get too out of hand.

And Soladrin: seriously dude? come on. Lets not make this into one of those USA vs EU things. Keep that crap on 4chan

Did you even read what I said above that?

Soladrin wrote:Did you even read what I said above that?

What you wrote doesn't invalidate his comment in the slightest.

See, Shuma agrees with me.

All I'm saying is that joking or not, I absolutely hate the USA vs EU grudge match. Seriously we have enough problems without adding xenophobia to that list

That's the whole reason I'm making fun of it?

Damn, nothing get's past you guys....

Im not saying you make fun of us because you're a xenophobe, I'm saying that turning US/EU relations into an us vs them scenario breeds xenophobia.

And I'm saying I think it's funny anyone takes it seriously.